r/JewsOfConscience • u/optmstcnihilist Anti-Zionist • Oct 17 '24
Discussion The Israeli society is so radical and terroristic!
These extremist ideas are normal within the Israeli society, and at the same time they're defending themselves, what a sick joke!
besides, I can recall a very recent video of an Israeli parent teaching their child about their rights in the lands of Lebanon!!
also tons of videos of the grandmother of the settler movement "Daniella Weiss" where she's blatantly and openly expresses racist sentiments against Palestinians.
And how Israel now is escalating the war to attack 5 countries combined...
Well, do you think these radical views may be more deeply seated among the younger Israeli citizens who might have a bit more critical thinking and can see the fact of the zionism on the internet, rather than older generations, which were completely brainwashed by their education system and their media narrative?
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u/Katyamuffin Israeli Oct 17 '24
Unfortunately, the brainwashing only gets stronger over time. These people are just teaching their kids the same stuff they believe, but from a much younger age.
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u/finiteloop72 Ashkenazi Oct 17 '24
^ I suspect things will get worse before they get better.
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u/Katyamuffin Israeli Oct 18 '24
I don't even know if they can get better. How do you un-brainwash an entire country?
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u/BoxBoxBox5 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 18 '24
In germany, the old nazis aged and died out, and a new generation was raised more tolerant
Unfortunately, this time the world’s largest bully is not against the fascist side, so it will be much harder in israel.
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u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Oct 30 '24
I'm curious how you got unbrainwashed?
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u/Katyamuffin Israeli Oct 30 '24
This gonna sound like a joke answer, but it's the Autism. I basically grew up on the internet and not interracting with people around me irl. Never felt like a part of Israeli society and culture to begin with. And when I started getting interested in politics most of my knowledge, again, came from the internet, where I learned how the rest of the world sees us and why.
PS combine that with my parents being soviet union immigrants, who basically just came to Israel because it was an easy place for Jews to get citizenship, they never really held any zionist or religious views. They're very non-political people.
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u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Oct 30 '24
Wow, that's really interesting. People talk so negatively about social media, but I think social media like reddit really has the power to be transformative, it brings people perspectives they never would have encountered. I think it could bring about really good change. What is life like for you these days?
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u/Katyamuffin Israeli Oct 30 '24
Tough question haha. On the personal level I'm doing ok. I have an amazing loving partner who holds the same views as me, pretty much for the same reason. (We're so online-brained that we speak English at home and not Hebrew even though it's out native language)
But overall living here is very depressing, especially now. I have to actively avoid talking about politics to co-workers and even my husband's family. We both want to move somewhere else but two autistic factory workers with no talent or higher education don't have that many options, shockingly. Not in very high demand🤷🏻♀️
My older sister moved to Germany, we're currently examining that option. We'd have to learn German, which isn't fun, but fuck me, I do not wanna raise kids here under any circumstances.
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u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Oct 30 '24
It's so upsetting how it's difficult for people who don't fit in job-wise to immigrate. I have difficulties in that area, and I have thought about what I would do if I was Israeli and wanted to immigrate. I feel like I would be stuck. Keep strong, well wishes to you.
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u/Katyamuffin Israeli Oct 30 '24
Thank you that's genuinely really sweet 🫂 Best wishes to you too, hope you overcome whatever trouble you're having.
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u/xarjun Anti-Zionist Oct 17 '24
Indoctrinate children from birth about being the 'master race' and how others are meant to serve you...create an occupier society built on racist, ethno-religious, principles.... Heavily armed....with no legal framework to check and stop your atrocities...
And this is what you get.
If what he's saying comes to pass...do you think this society will suddenly become a peaceful, law-abiding one?
These child-murdering, rape-endorsing, ZioNazi fascists will not disappear. They will come after others.
How's Israel doing just now? Perhaps this, or this, or this, or this, will assist in setting the (very disturbing) scene.
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u/BoxBoxBox5 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 18 '24
Indoctrinate children from birth about being the ‘master race’ and how others are meant to serve you...create an occupier society built on racist, ethno-religious, principles....
Hmm, where have seen this before? 🤔
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u/Saul_al-Rakoun Conservadox & Marxist Oct 20 '24
I hate the Bell Curve or "Midwit" meme (especially because of its alt-right origins, but le sigh) but in this case it holds. After a year of looking into this thing...Zionism isn't exactly Nazism but not only is it its closest living relative, but it's a near-identical cousin.
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u/BoxBoxBox5 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
Zionism isn’t exactly Nazism but not only is it its closest living relative, but it’s a near-identical cousin.
There’s literal original nazism alive, well and blooming.
Zionism is obviously fascist and has parealels to Nazism, but it certainly isnt the closest relative of Nazism. It’s instead the closest relative of 19th century european colonialism, because that’s what it is, its only remaining incarnation.
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Oct 17 '24
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u/przyssawka Oct 17 '24
Biblical Hebrew does sound like that. At least from what scholars of the language can reconstruct. There are differences, ש was probably pronounced closer to sounds present in modern Arabic but modern Hebrew does follow ancient pronunciation relatively closely.
And by “white Europeans from 20th century” do you mean Ashkenazi? If so, whew boy
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u/LaikaZee Oct 17 '24
Sorry for calling your language ugly 😭, I realized that wasn’t the nicest thing to say
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Oct 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/r_pseudoacacia Oct 17 '24
What did you say?
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u/przyssawka Oct 17 '24
He said that Modern Hebrew is ugly sounding language that sounds nothing like Biblical Hebrew and the reason for it is it was created by white Europeans in 20th century
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u/r_pseudoacacia Oct 17 '24
Oh. Like, Khazar theory? I fucking hate that. Wish u/LaikaZee try to say that shit to my face. My ancestors weren't raped by Slavs and forbidden from engaging in meaningful labor for centuries for some edgelord with a BS in TikTok university to tell me that they are "nATivE euROPeans"
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u/przyssawka Oct 17 '24
This has become very prevalent among Muslim SEA and gulf population to a point where I’ve been asked as a Polish Jew about whether Poles consider Bibi to be Polish. In extreme cases it devolves into conspiracy theories where Israel is basically a neocolonisation ploy by white Europeans and Americans or even some sort of Polish conspiracy.
It pisses me to no end because it both erases the Ashkenazim identity entirely and at the same time completely absolves any Jewish Zionist of the past and present from the responsibility for their actions, after all it’s all Americans and Europeans cosplaying Jews.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
I'm afraid you are misinformed. What you are calling "original" Hebrew has been spoken by all Jews (including European Jews of course) uninterrupted for thousands of years. Modern Hebrew has vocabulary and grammar changes for daily use, but the pronunciation itself is not new.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
That’s not actually true. Hebrew was not been used uninterrupted for thousands of years. Especially not in Europe. That’s why Hebrew had a revival after it was considered a dead language. Eliezer Ben Yehuda (not his original name) was the one who revived it. That’s why modern Hebrew does in fact mispronunce some letters like ע and ח. In today’s Hebrew they sound exactly like א and כ respectively but this is a mispronunciation. I’m not sure what the comment said though
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
In fact the revival of the Hebrew language was a Zionist move. With it , tons of early settlers to Palestine changed their names to more Hebrew sounding ones.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
A lot of the words in modern Hebrew were even straight up INVENTED by Eliezer (tomato, corn….)
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
I'm not talking about Modern Hebrew. I was responding to a since deleted comment about Hebrew pronunciation.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
Yes I know, and that comment has a point.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
There is nothing new about the way Modern Hebrew is pronounced, it comes from multiple diaspora liturgical Hebrew accents that have existed for many centuries. We also know what various ancient Hebrew accents sounded like, the differences are not significant.
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u/przyssawka Oct 17 '24
He was saying that from pronunciation perspective modern Hebrew is ugly and nothing like Biblical Hebrew. New words were invented for it and there are lots of loanwords from Slavic and other European languages, but sound wise both languages are relatively close.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
This is kinda true though…. Eliezer Ben Yehuda invented word. One being Gilda (ice cream) which is similar /beloved to be inspired from the Italian word gelato. Another word , riba (jelly) was invented by him as well and believed to be inspired by the Arabic murraba. And yes the pronunciation of the modern ח and ע ט ARE wrong and unlike the ancient Hebrew one. My grandfather a Yemeni Jew still properly pronounces these sounds but any young Israeli does not because the language has evolved.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
This is a common myth, but traditional Yemeni Hebrew pronunciation is not true to authentic ancient Hebrew (which itself had multiple pronunciations depending on time and place). Traditional Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi accents all have different elements of ancient Hebrew pronunciation along with relatively small changes that naturally evolved over time.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
It’s not a myth. Are you saying the letters א and ע are meant to sound the exact same? What would be the use of having two letters for the exact same sound?
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
It's a bit more complicated than that. While there were historical differences in the pronunciation of those letters, the Yemeni (and broadly Mizrahi) pronunciations are more influenced by Arabic pronunciation. Aleph and Ayin had been merged in many Hebrew pronunciation systems for hundreds of years, so that isn't a new thing. Similarly, Ashkenazim retained the significant pronunciation difference between ת and תּ which had been lost in most Sephardi and Mizrahi communities.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
Sure even if it’s been over 100 years that doesn’t change the fact that it has changed ??
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
The timeline is much longer than that. All Hebrew accents/pronunciations have changed subtly over thousands of years. Linguists have determined that no single current pronunciation is completely accurate to ancient pronunciations (of which there were multiple), and that various Hebrew accents have maintained certain pronunciations that have faded out in others. For example Yemeni and Ashkenazi Hebrew each have different ancient pronunciations that the other does not have. It's not a matter of correctness, this is natural for any language that has existed for as long as Hebrew.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
I'm not talking about Modern Hebrew. As a liturgical and religious language Hebrew has been used interrupted for thousands of years, including by the Jews of Europe.
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
The guy in the video is speaking modern Hebrew. The commenter was saying that modern Hebrew is very different than liturgical and ancient Hebrew which is very true.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 17 '24
The Modern Hebrew accent is based on (mostly) Sephardi and (partially) Ashkenazi liturgical accents. What are the major differences in your opinion?
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u/anusfalafels Oct 17 '24
I mentioned it in a previous comment. The way ע ח & ט are pronounced is not how it should be
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