"Ask A Jew" Wednesday

[u/AutoModerator]

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!

[u/DO_MD]

I have a question! How do you guys feel about your own personal connection to the country of (or land of) Israel?

My girlfriend is American and Jewish raised Zionist but is slowly changing her mind and her ways but has this almost unbreakable connection to Israel. Even when I criticize Israel she still can’t help but shut down and has trouble criticizing them as well. I’m curious how you all deal with this connection to the land, and if there’s a feasible conversation to have with her that may help her see this as just a country? (If that’s even the right way to go about it)

[u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet → u/DO_MD]

TLDR: The best person to talk to her about this is another antizionist Jew, if you can find one local willing to have the conversation with her.

Personally I have a huge line between my connection to the state of Israel ("Medinat Yisrael") and the land of Israel ("Eretz Yisrael"). I am part of the capital-D Diaspora because my people were exiled out of the land of Israel, but the state of Israel is a modern invention. What helps a lot is that the OG Zionists of the early 19th and 20th centuries even agreed with this stance, having that separation in their mind. The state's goals aren't to be a continuation of the ancient kingdom/country from which we were exiled, and originally there was a debate about where on the planet to even create it, with multiple non-Israel options debated.

There are probably 2 main factors that complicate her relationship with the state, at least based on my own complications and the ones I've talked with other fellow Jews (Zionist or non):

1. Israel advertises itself as "the Jewish State" and as "the return of the Jewish People to their homeland". The propaganda runs deep in Zionist Jewish circles to connect Jewishness and Israel. The state capitalizes on our yearning for the land of Israel to make the pivot to yearning for the state of Israel. It is always difficult to criticize your homeland's existence, and the state has done its best to wear the cloak of our culture's homeland since its inception.
2. Most Jews have at least some family in Israel, because their family moved there recently, extended family trees, or even because their families started in Israel and then left. It is always difficult and uncomfortable to say the people firing missiles at your family, trapping them in bomb shelters or making them leave their homes entirely have a point.

Getting through on the first point requires not only someone who understands the nuances of Jewish culture's interactions with Zionism, but someone whose understanding she trusts. Its way too easy for her to say "you're not a Jew, you don't understand" even to a gentile who has done years of research on this topic, because its hard to think someone outside your experience can understand it. It needs a full understanding of her culture and where she's coming from, as well as a place where she can feel comfortable accepting that this full understanding exists.

The second point requires being able to simultaneously hold sympathy for Israelis while still thinking Israel is wrong, and maintaining that sympathy throughout the entire conversation -- even if that sympathy is challenging, and even if that conversation lasts multiple days/weeks/months. Maintaining that sympathy for such a long amount of time is difficult if it doesn't come at least somewhat naturally, which is why I'd recommend not being the one to try here -- especially since, given your background, you have every right to not maintain sympathy for your historic oppressors. It will always be more difficult for an Ashkenazi Jew to have the ability necessary to truly sympathize with the Dresden Bombings, or a Korean/Chinese person to sympathize with Hiroshima/Nagasaki, and I don't think its right to expect you to even if its necessary in the conversation.

[u/DO_MD → u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet]

Okay you’re the third reply I’ve gotten to my question and all 3 so far have been nothing short of eloquent, empathetic, and logical and I appreciate you so much for your response. I’m quite honestly so excited for this next phase of our conversation. I’m going to share these sentiments with her. Thank you!!

[u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet → u/DO_MD]

Do lmk if you need any more help! I'm sure you'd be able to find someone here willing to talk to her in a more Jew-on-Jew way if you need. I know one of the things I find very fulfilling is talking with Zionists to get them to budge, even a little bit, off of their most militant positions.

[u/DO_MD → u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet]

I really appreciate that. If she is ready and willing to do so I will undoubtedly reach out to this community to find someone happy to talk to her. Thank you so much