r/JewsOfConscience • u/AutoModerator • Oct 09 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!

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u/darps Non-Jewish Ally Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 10 '24

Do you disagree in general with arguments for a majority Jewish state?

My context is especially the common pro-Israel argument that, regardless of social progress, an enduring peaceful existence as Jewish minority in other countries is ultimately not achievable due to antisemitism, and the only way to prevent another Holocaust long-term is a majority Jewish state.

Clearly it's a mile-long slippery slope from this conclusion to defending Israel as it exists, but I want to better understand the core of this argument.

Edit: Thank you for all the thoughtful responses! There's clearly a range of opinions on this matter. I'm not sure why my comment is being downvoted since I didn't see any direct criticism, so I'd appreciate to understand where it went off-base or offended people, or if it's otherwise undesirable.

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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Ashkenazi, atheist, postZ Oct 09 '24

I hope and feel the world has evolved beyond the point where another Holocaust could happen. I don’t personally fear another Holocaust or feel that a Jewish state is what’s keeping us safe. So that rationale for a Jewish state isn’t mine.

I don’t argue with people who do feel this way. I generally don’t argue with anyone’s trauma history or what they took away from it. I can very easily understand someone saying, “I will never again trust the world to protect us. We need to take matters into our own hands.”

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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox Oct 09 '24

I think we do, certainly. But not in a way that requires us to subjugate another group of people, and not in the way that emulates our oppressors. Zionists internalized the European bourgeoise notions about race and empire and took them out on every Jew who wasn't themselves- and more importantly Palestinians. Autonomy doesn't have to mean a state.