r/JewsOfConscience • u/AutoModerator • Oct 02 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!

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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist Oct 02 '24

I want to ask about the zionist idea that the modern state of Israel is the direct continuation of the bronze age Kingdom of Israel in the Bible/Torah. Obviously thats a load of bull, but I want to hear from a historian why. 

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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

I've never heard of that as a mainstream Zionist ideology, even among Religious Zionists. Jews have always viewed it as the Land of Israel, but it's rare to hear those who consider the State of Israel as the continuation of any ancient Jewish kingdom (which is itself not so important in Jewish tradition or religion).

Edit in response to downvotes: The traditional Jewish concept of the Land of Israel isn't based on an ancient kingdom, it's based on the land itself and centered around the Temple in Jerusalem

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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist Oct 02 '24

To me, using the ancient kingdom of Israel to justify the modern state's existence implies there's some direct continuation. Zionists deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian identity on the grounds of it being modern, claiming there is no Palestinian history or historical figures that identified as Palestinian, but by the same standards there were never any historical Israelis from premodern history. Implying that the modern state of Israel has legitimacy because there was one jewish kingdom named Israel 3000 years ago thus implies with this logic that the modern state is a continuation of the ancient one.

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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 03 '24

But the modern State of Israel isn't claiming to be the continuation of an ancient Kingdom of Israel, this isn't a Zionist ideology. The name of the country comes from Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), "Israel" itself just refers to the Jewish People. Jews have always referred to it as Eretz Yisrael, that isn't a Zionist invention and also has nothing to do with whether there was once Jewish rule in the region.

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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 04 '24

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u/Saul_al-Rakoun Conservadox & Marxist Oct 02 '24

Zionism isn't traditionally Jewish, so you can't argue Zionist beliefs from Jewish tradition.