r/JewsOfConscience • u/inbetweensound Jewish Anti-Zionist • Oct 01 '24
Opinion “Israel’s mythology of necessity of making Jews feel alone”
https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1840794935466844652?s=61&t=BOlzemQu6oPppjtIB6ZeiQFound this
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u/Horror-Wasabi-3613 Oct 01 '24
Ngl… Distancing yourself from your family because of their Zionist ideologies is still pretty isolating.
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox Oct 01 '24
It very much is. It's not something that I'm happy about, but there are certain views I just can't entertain in good conscience.
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u/theapplekid Orthodox-raised, atheist, Ashkenazi, leftist 🍁 Oct 01 '24
I agree, but honestly the community I've found from Jewish anti-zionist activism has been amazing, and I feel more connected to Jewish tradition than I have in decades.
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u/yeahiminfilmschool Oct 01 '24
On the flip side, I will say I’ve been personally experiencing my family (I’m the only one who’s even been critical of Israel, let alone them knowing about antizionism) intentionally isolating me, even as I’ve tried to “leave politics behind” as best as I can. It’s been a terrible year, and it isn’t the choice I would have made had the roles been reversed, and yet here it is.
The burden of isolation goes both ways, and it’s far more painful to be isolated and in the minority than isolated and have the entirety of your religion and institutions backing you.
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u/socialist_butterfly0 Jewish Communist Oct 01 '24
That's why it is soooo essential to not only be antizionist but to build community outside of the context of Zionism. Bonus if that community is Jewish community!
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u/SuperBearJew Oct 01 '24
I think it's okay to recognize the limits of some of our elders (as I imagine this subreddit tends to skew younger)
My parents are boomers, and my mom's parents are Holocaust survivors. For my bubbie on my mom's side, I can understand why shes a Zionist, and why that might not ever change based on her experiences.
I can also understand how my parents, raised by that generation, might have similar feelings. Generational trauma and whatnot.
I make an effort to talk to my parents about this kind of thing, but I also recognize that realistically the wheels of history move relatively slowly, and often much more slowly than many of us would like. That being said, I can also see myself being too passive on the issue sometimes, although sometimes out of necessity for my mental health
As bleak as it may sound, as the Holocaust survivors and their offspring pass, I think we'll see a bit of a demographic shift away from Zionism. That is obviously no help for Palestinians/Lebanese at the moment, but it does give me some hope for a more peaceful future.
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox Oct 01 '24
That's true. My grandfather (z'l) and his brother (b'h still alive at 101) were both survivors who went separate paths. My grandfather became mostly secular, pro-American, and a hardline Zionist. He refused to teach us Hungarian or Yiddish, and only wanted us to learn Hebrew. He was pro-Israel until his dying day, but otherwise, could be a lot worse for an old white man.
His brother on the other hand became even more religious than they were in the old country, and were anti-Zionist. Still are. They were both trauma responses to seeing their entire family murdered in front of them, being enslaved, and put on death marches. I don't condone my grandfather's Zionism but like, I get it. And at the same time, I totally agree with my religious' family's rejection of Zionism based on how the hilonim view religious Jews.
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u/TheShittyLittleIdiot Oct 07 '24
I'm not optimistic actually. Very Jewish identifying jews--ie, more religious, more likely to go to private school, etc--are very highly indoctrinated. The ones who are less likely to be pro-Israel are also less likely to pass a strong sense of Jewish identity onto their children. On the other hand, progressive Jewish leaders in training, especially in reconstructionism, are less likely to be Zionists, so there's something. I also think the Zionist project will probably collapse within our lifetime, however.
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Oct 01 '24
Yeah... Can't talk to my self-hating Jewish father about this "Zionism makes you feel alone" thing because he's MAGA. That being said... He's MAGA... So like.... Israel isn't the first time.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 01 '24
She's awesome and was on Bad Hasbara recently!
(I have not seen this video yet; but just speaking in general, I like her videos on TikTok.)
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u/inbetweensound Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 01 '24
I’m not aware of who she is. Which episode was she on?
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox Oct 01 '24
I have mixed feelings about this. In an objective manner of speaking, she's not wrong. Israel does very much weaponize tragedy: it's impossible to deny that. Even so....yeah? In the past century, everyone has at least one ancestor that has endured some kind of attempted genocide, or other act of ethnic violence. Not that our history is in any way an excuse for Zionist atrocities or colonization; but it's hard not to feel like the world hates Jews sometimes. Because I sure as shit don't have much evidence to the contrary.
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Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24
I don’t think either your or her perspective is wrong-
Literally every single Jew I’ve ever met in my life has some family story involving genocide, ethnic cleansing, pogroms, stolen property, state and/or social enforced discrimination, institutional segregation, antisemitic harassment, or episodic antisemitic violence.
On the other hand, Zionism really does push us towards irrational tribalism, while pushing us away from developing a sense of solidarity with all oppressed peoples. This was something I especially noticed while growing up in Israel.
Personally, coming to reject Zionism has provided me a profound sense of unity and connection with all human beings. Something that I had never felt as a Zionist.
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u/MartinLutherVanHalen Oct 01 '24
You aren’t wrong but how many Indian, indigenous or African people could make the same argument?
The difference between those groups and Jewish people is that Jewish people can chose to identify politically and culturally, while many other people cannot. That doesn’t excuse prejudice, but it does make it easier to navigate and makes integration in other places many orders of magnitude easier.
Other groups are constantly asked to ignore inequalities which are plainly visible. It seems imbalanced to say that Jewish people are justified in feeling oppressed while other people are expected to make huge efforts not to let the past guide their actions in the present.
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u/Processing______ Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 01 '24
We can remember the Holocaust without reliving it yearly. We can build safety without taking it from others.
For unfortunately cynical reasons, the Holocaust made Jews a model victim. It’s meant our safety gets prime time attention. We still have that.
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