r/JewsOfConscience Sep 18 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!

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u/Kreyl Non-Jewish Ally Sep 18 '24

Thanks for these threads! I've wanted to ask clarification on something that I felt was an inherently antisemitic argument to me (I called it out as such and reported the post for antisemitism)... but I suppose I'd appreciate confirmation? And this is probably the place I trust best to confirm. I don't seriously expect to hear "yes that was totally fine," I don't want to present this as if it's an AITA post where the poster is clearly in the right and just wants headpats and cookies. I guess I'd just never seen this particular angle on antisemitism before (I presume it's an old one), and I do have a small but lingering minor social desire to check with somebody and be like "I read this right, yes?" So yeah, this seems like the place for that.

The thing that I saw was a comic being shared by a leftist account; I don't recall the exact wording, but it very explicitly, like, not at all subtext, compared Jewish people believing they are the chosen people to Nazis believing that they are the master race because of their skin.

This one struck me as inherently antisemitic, for one because while I feel like comparisons between the Israeli government and Nazis might sometimes be appropriate, it comes off to me like hitting below the belt. I'd rather call out the abuses without bringing in direct comparisons to Nazi Germany. For another, while I don't know the different schools of answers myself, there's guaranteed to be thousands of years of Jewish philosophy that would have been tackling exactly the question of what it means to be a chosen people.

The only justification I could see for the comparison, if I was going to try to be as charitable as humanly possible, is that maybe some miniscule number of people have interpreted it in a supremacist way. Perhaps Netanyahu and people in change of the Israeli military think that way, I don't know. Maybe not even them. But to casually equate all Judaism to white supremacy is way, WAY the fuck out of line.

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u/douglasstoll Reconstructionist Sep 18 '24

But to casually equate all Judaism to white supremacy is way, WAY the fuck out of line.

Correct.

Perhaps Netanyahu and people in change of the Israeli military think that way, I don't know.

They do. Jewish Supremacy is a very real phenomenon, and it is currently a driving force within Israel. Ben-Gvir's political party is literally called "Jewish Power." Many of these folks either directly or indirectly follow the ideology of Meir Kahane, an avowed racist and supremacist who championed terrorism. Kahane and others like him do indeed build their ideology on th doctrine of "chosenness."

For myself, this is why I am such a fan of Mordecai Kaplan, whose conception of chosenness is essentially the opposite, he starts from a position that he would never deny any other people a relationship with the divine where they also feel "chosen."

It is worth pointing out that Kaplan's idea is still a minority view, and it is also worth pointing out that the prevailing view of "chosenness" is often described succinctly as "chosen to do the dishes" as opposed to "chosen to be seen as better-than," and this is a logical internal view due to the challenges inherent to Jewish religious practice. It's hard to be Jewish (in Russia, yo. [Community? Fiddler Please? No?])

As for the comparisons with Nazi ideology, it does indeed get tricky. When a Jewish person or otherwise learned and sensitive person makes the comparison, I find myself given to listening and considering; after all the ideologies on display in the government of the legal state of Israel are undeniably fascist, undeniably supremacist, undeniably racist, and just as much an incoherent mess of tangled unlogic meant to support an ultimate cause of power through violence.

The Nazis were unique among fascist genocidaires in their industrial approach. Where they excelled in bringing victims to the point of violence, Israel is similarly yet conversely excelling in bringing violence to their victims.

When anyone, especially non-Jews (had to delete 'goyim' there, apologies) make blanket generalizations about ALL Jews and all of Judaism being the same as Nazi ideology, that is dehumanizing and dangerous, and plays directly into the hands of the ruling interests of the state of Israel.

Your instinct is correct, I think, at least to my limited perspective. The comic as you described certainly seems problematic and given to dehumanizing and demonizing Jews.

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u/Kreyl Non-Jewish Ally Sep 18 '24

Thank you, this was informative and helpful. ❤️