r/JewsOfConscience • u/0balaam • Sep 11 '24
Discussion Campaign victory: "Two Nice Jewish Boys" podcast removed from Patreon
Hey everybody I'm here with some rare good news.
Because so many of you supported my campaign, posted last week in this subreddit, to report the "Two Nice Jewish Boys” podcast for breaching platform terms of service (specifically hate speech). They have been removed from Patreon!
Give yourselves a pat on the back.
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u/NeverForgetNGage Jewish Communist Sep 11 '24
You could say that we pressed a button and their patreon went away. Beautiful.
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u/Nice__Spice Non-Jewish Ally Sep 11 '24
Time to get them off other platforms. YouTube. Whatever else
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 11 '24
Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts. Spotify will be tricky - they do not make it easy to file complaints.
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u/MooreThird Anti-Zionist Sep 12 '24
We should stop normalizing hate against other communities, especially among liberals, and start standing up for them.
This is the best first step.
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u/helpful-in-a-pinch Sep 13 '24
Eytan Weinstein (the Boy without hair) was also fired from his job at Palo Alto Networks. Company won't fully confirm this is the reason but he was under review once the comments went viral and is now terminated. Oops!
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
Is accepting a regime of politically-correct censorship really in our best interest? Who stands to gain and lose the most from freedom of speech?
I'd agree though that many who called for censorship in the past have been deeply hypocritical in permitting genocidal statements by Israel advocates.
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u/BeardedDragon1917 Sep 11 '24
The regime is already here. Free speech is a myth, every country suppresses speech they consider dangerous, and America is only unique among Western nations for the extent to which it outsources that job to private institutions, rather than doing it directly itself.
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u/moriparty Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 11 '24 edited Sep 11 '24
They were literally calling for Gaza to be completely destroyed along with everyone in it.
It is not your place as a non-Jew to tell Jews what’s in “OUR” best interest. This does not apply to you.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
So you don't perceive any solidarity between yourself and others who are advocating for a humane policy?
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u/moriparty Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 11 '24
How is crying “but free speech!!!” and “this might be too politically correct!!!” over the removal of a rabidly zionist podcast that advocates for the genocide of Palestinians a “humane policy”? Like what???
If you’re stuck on policy, they literally violated Patreon’s terms of use. Which is a policy.
The “humane policy” here is the unconditional support for the liberation of Palestine and her people.
Whatever you’re going on about is not a hill worth dying on.
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u/PerfectTrust7895 Sep 11 '24
They can keep spewing their bullshit, they just won't get payed for doing so
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
Okay, so you'd rather talk about policies of demonetization rather than outright censorship.
Which side in this debate, the pro-genocide side or the anti-colonial side, has benefited more from policies of demonetization? On the whole?
Suppressing "Two Nice Jewish Boys" might be a tactical victory, but we're losing strategically.
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u/PerfectTrust7895 Sep 11 '24
I don't think hamas set up a Patreon account.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24 edited Sep 11 '24
Advocates of Palestinian military resistance such as The Electronic Intifada and The Anti-Empire Project rely on access to streaming platforms.
Also, why not? To think of Hamas as cavemen who don't have facility with social media is an orientalist logic. If the State of Israel is allowed to give an account of itself to the world public, so should be Hamas. Note: I do not condone Hamas' Qassam Bridgades tactics of targeting civilians.
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u/PerfectTrust7895 Sep 12 '24
Israel, for what it's worth, also doesn't have a patreon account.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 12 '24
It would be rational to spend time discussing access to mainstream streaming platforms overall, including Patreon but also YouTube, Facebook, X, Twitch, and others. The Electronic Intifada, which does excellent journalism, is banned from many and de-monetized on YouTube.
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u/goldstar971 Sep 12 '24
you're moving goalposts. demonitization is not equivalent to preventing streaming.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 12 '24
I think it's perfectly appropriate to think of censorship as a range of techniques and mechanisms for discouraging unwanted speech. See “Censor.” Dictionary, Merriam-Webster.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Sep 11 '24
As we communists say, "lib moment."
Brandeis's "the answer to bad speech is more speech" completely ignores *who owns the printing press."
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
I personally have felt that pro-genocide advocates, rather than humanitarian advocates, have benefited more from censorship in the U.S., on the whole.
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u/HoHoHoChiLenin Sep 11 '24
Censorship is not some abstract force, it is a tool used by one group against another, a political and ideological weapon. They will always use it against us when it is beneficial to them, same as any other kind of weapon. Our goal is not to disarm and deescalate, but victory over our enemies. We should use any tool that suits us.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
That is at least principled and consistent.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Sep 11 '24
Censorship by what mean?
It's not "censorship," where a government body controls specific speech. It's the mass and incessant reproduction of Bourgeois values. A tiny fluffy piece on "life in Gaza" is all they need to rebut claims of censorship.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
All during the recent years of center-left political correctness on issues such as immigration, the Jan. 6, 2021 events, and race relations, I was outspoken in arguing that we were too unconcerned with the limitation of speech by social media companies. The companies, I argued, were massive and had monopolistic tendencies, and there was a danger (later manifesting concretely) that they were coordinating with the government to some degree.
I totally understand the counter-argument that these are private companies, and their policies don't reflect censorship of speech in the sense of First Amendment-rights denying government censorship.
However, I'm surprised that now, at this moment, when these same social media companies have suppressed criticism of Israel and support of Palestinian resistance so much, that here, in this sub, in this context, we (I don't mean you specifically, but many of the participants in this thread) are arguing for the supposed benefits of their content policies.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Sep 11 '24
Indeed. Social media is the illusion of a loudspeaker for all, the most massive commons ever created. But it's an illusion. r /worldnews is emblematic of that. ANY critique is shut down immediately in the service of bourgeois interests.
They needn't "coordinate" with the government, because they represent the same interests: global capital dominated by the west and the global imperialism of the western bourgeois class. By their nature they are already coordinated. Small slaps on the wrist and congressional testimony are just theater. It is the same with broadcast media.
Whenever the interests of the bourgeois classes reveal their anarchic tendencies and inter-class conflicts by punishing their class allies (like critiquing Israel), liberals cheer that the system is working. It's a chimera.
The settler colonial crisis that is Israel, when questioned thoroughly, reveals most apparently that class conflict, not some identity-based level-playingfield actually exists. That's why Palestinian revolutionaries have the clearest analyses of most revolutionary struggles. The fact that Hamas rose up only with the assistance of Israel was another clear indication that racialized capitalism was at play, and that revolutionaries like the PFLP were the real threat to Israel, and global bourgeois.
I wonder how much revolutionary philosophy I can drone on about here before I disappear suddenly from Reddit. :D
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Sep 11 '24
Nicely said. I don't fully believe in the Marxian thesis yet it is the case that the discourse surround the current Israel/Palestine conflict provides strong evidence for it. I do believe in Noam Chomsky's statement that "the elites are fighting a vicious class war all the time." I am reminded of a comment Thomas Friedman made about Hamas shortly after October 7th:
Thomas Friedman, New York Times podcast, Oct. 20, 2023:
"From 30,000 feet, Prime Minister Netanyahu really had a very intentional policy of strengthening Hamas and weakening the Palestinian Authority. So strengthening the Palestinian group that would never recognize Israel while weakening the one that would."
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Sep 12 '24
The great thing about Marxian analysis is that it's dialectical. The primary contradiction this century needn't be the primary contradiction the next. Though we can see contradictions arising and falling through time, and though we can see contradictions across and within classes, this dynamic flows. In all cases, it must be grounded in the material conditions from which everything arises.
Chomsky has been allowed to permeate Western thought because he doesn't actually pose a threat. Capital is not threatened by anarchism, especially not Chomsky's anarchism. Class struggle, the arising of class consciousness and the primary importance of producing for use and not for trade, cuts to the heart of capitalist exploitation, and destroys it completely. That is where the battle is, that's why Marxist movements are attacked so fiercely, and that's why we'll win. Because human creativity cannot be forever subject to exploitation. Things change. And within every thing exists in germ its contradiction, destroying it from within.
Happy chatting about this stuff! 🙏
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u/Saul_al-Rakoun Conservadox & Marxist Sep 12 '24
Sure, though, I mean, the primary contradiction is inherent to the structure of bourgeois society and it continues to be the one between Capital and Labor and has been that way since the 1350s.
If we don't keep our eye on this, that phenomena like Imperialism in Lenin's sense, or as it developed in the post-World War II world, are manifestations of this contradiction, then we'll arrive at silly notions that capitalism exists in order to do imperialism, or capitalism exists in order to do white supremacy, or capitalism exists in order to do patriarchy, and so on.
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u/oncothrow Hasidim Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
You may want to look up Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) (Rwandan genocide) some time and why specifically advocating publicly for the annihilation of a people is classed as incitement to genocide.
“You were fully aware of the power of words, and you used the radio – the medium of communication with the widest public reach – to disseminate hatred and violence….Without a firearm, machete or any physical weapon, you caused the death of thousands of innocent civilians.”
- Judge Navanethem Pillay, presiding over the trial of the radio hosts who had incited their audience to kill during the Rwandan Genocide.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Sep 11 '24
May their memory be a toilet