"Ask A Jew" Wednesday

[u/AutoModerator]

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

[u/ezkori]

Are you elaborating or disagreeing? I’m not saying Judaism doesn’t have shared culture, I’m saying that it’s hard to conceptualize because there are not as many diasporic groups with this large of a population and as much variety in specific practices.

[u/specialistsets → u/ezkori]

I am not disagreeing but also not quite agreeing with the assertion that there is no shared Jewish diaspora culture. The very concept of belonging to a Jewish diaspora group is shared across Jewish diaspora groups.

I’m saying that it’s hard to conceptualize because there are not as many diasporic groups with this large of a population and as much variety in specific practices.

what Jewish groups would this be referring to? historically there has been a cohesive "mainstream" Jewish world (especially for the past 500 years) with only a few small remote groups outside of this framework.

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

I’m talking about the Jewish diaspora vs. other diasporic groups who share a cultural identity. It’s hard to conceptialize on a scale like Judaism because of the sheer size and age of Judaism, as well as the relative size of the smaller diasporic groups. I’m also trying to simplify Jewish cultural identity in a way that still values the shared historical culture while also admitting that the diaspora changed and morphed the sub-cultures. For those not raised in this, it’s a weird thing to wrap one’s head around- this nebulous identity not linked (necessarily) to one nationality or religious beliefs or even necessarily one’s heritage! Jewish identity from the outside is confusing af

[u/specialistsets → u/ezkori]

I think you are talking more about Jewish self-identity than Jewish diaspora definitions. Historically, Jewish diaspora groups identify as part of the broader Jewish world, not strictly with their diaspora group. And not all Jews, both historically and today, fit neatly into common Jewish diaspora group definitions, while still being fully part of the Jewish world.

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

OP asked about Jewish identity re: ethnicity, I was just trying to break down the many many aspects of how someone would Jewishly identity with relation to ethnicity (which of course is far more modern of an idea than Judaism but regardless). I don’t disagree that Jews were primarily Jews and then diasporic but to see all these “distinct” groups, I don’t blame OP for being confused about Judaism as an ethnic identity. Diasporic identities mattered w/r to the level of integration one had in culture and the effects neighboring cultures changed aspects of Jewish practice.

I dunno I think we’re generally talking in circles right now.

[u/specialistsets → u/ezkori]

Ethnic identities aren't exclusive, one can belong to many ethnic identities, including multiple Jewish identities. The distinctness of diaspora Jewish groups doesn't negate the concept of a shared Jewish ethnic identity that is inherent to all Jewish diaspora groups regardless of communal customs and traditions.

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

I don’t think I said that it was exclusive but apologies if I wasn’t clear

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

It’s also complicated when some Jews accept certain people as Jews but others don’t- ie. patrilineal descent. It just makes it hard to have one universal definition for “what Jewish identity is based on”.

[u/ezkori → u/ezkori]

Heck, I even know of orthodox groups who say that ALL reform Jews aren’t real Jews. It’s just hard to quantify when you’ll get different answers of who is a part of the “Jewish” community.

(Edited to add the word all for clarity)

[u/specialistsets → u/ezkori]

This is an ultra-modern (past 50 years) socio-theological phenomenon that some would even call a schism. But it doesn't change historical (past 2000 years) understandings of Jewish diasporic identity.

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

I mean sure. But cheirim and apikorsim also exosted and could have their Jewish identity revoked. I’m confused as to what exactly you have fault with right now? Is it that you think I don’t believe in a shared Jewish diasporic identity?

[u/specialistsets → u/ezkori]

The original comment was asking about Jewish ethnic identity across the Jewish diaspora groups of the world. Concepts of cherem and apikores are religious and political, not ethnic. Being put in cherem (which has always been incredibly rare) is about excommunication or disassociation from an organized Jewish community, but it doesn't revoke one's Jewishness as an ethnic identity. That itself is a key understanding of Jewishness as an ethnicity, it is irrevocable.

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

Fair enough. I do feel like historically apostates lost their Jewish ethnic identities but I’m not feeling researching at the moment. Happy to continue discussing in pms tho

[u/ezkori → u/specialistsets]

I also think that when I was referring to other diasporic groups in an earlier comment, I meant non-Jewish diasporic groups. Just wanted to clarify also

[u/ezkori → u/ezkori]

When I said “unfortunately it’s not super common” I was not saying that Judaism is not. I was saying Judaism is, and it’s not super common so it was difficult finding other analogous groups that might help OP understand the many layers of Jewish identity. That was what I was trying to say.