r/JewsOfConscience • u/AutoModerator • Jul 10 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

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u/Glad-Degree-4270 Post-Zionist Jul 10 '24

I’ve been told on other subs that ostensibly reform shuls in Europe and Israel tend to only accept patrilineal Jews via a (usually sped up) conversion. I think that sort of mentality is counterproductive to the reform movement itself. If I’m wrong then that’s of course a good thing.

The word choice of insular has to do with a wider proportion of non-American Jews being Orthodox or other more restrictive lines of Judaism and having more strict rules about intermarriage, and just tending to be less inclined to partake in secular life with gentiles.

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u/AnarchoHystericism Reform Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24

I think that's probably true. Generally in my country, and I think pretty broadly in reform, jewish background is the deciding factor in whether one needs to convert, regardless of parentage. Even if both of your parents are jewish, you may need to go through a conversion (or not a conversion, but a similarly structured class) to join a shul if you were not raised jewish and have no knowledge of judaism. Many patrilineal jews are not raised jewish (need to convert), many are (don't need to convert). What's the problem with this mentality? It's practical.

You say this like there aren't orthodox jews in the US. There's plenty, some of the most intensely ultra-orthodox sects in the world are based in the US. I don't understand what your criticisms of orthodox and reform practices have to do with this topic, why do you bring this up?

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u/Glad-Degree-4270 Post-Zionist Jul 11 '24

I brought up the sectional differences because if Israel is claiming to represent me but wouldn’t allow me to get married there as Jew then it’s not very representative lol.

The rabbinate of Israel has grown in influence over the last decade and they have an outsized say in secular affairs, and as an Orthodox body they have some rules that leave secular Jews and patrilineal Jews in the cold. And when the government uses a theological determination to create laws or regulations, that’s inherently pretty fucked up imo. Maybe thats just my Americanness coming through - the First Amendment was one of the greatest advances in human rights ever (on paper) at its time. But yeah I don’t think it makes sense for my ethnic background to be deniable by some outdated theology. I don’t care about the religious side of things as I’m irreligious and it’s functionally all “be nice to people, duh” and the rest is pointless window dressing. I do care about ‘tribal’ membership as a Jew, though, as it is a key facet of my identity. To have anyone deny that is pretty messed up.

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u/AnarchoHystericism Reform Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 13 '24

Dude I'm having a tough time following your point from one comment to the next. Are you trolling? You vehemently disagree with reform conversion standards and orthodox lifestyle choices because of the legislative power of the chief rabbinate of israel? Wtf are you talking about? Who is denying your ethnic background? None of these things are related to each other and it seems like you just wanna take shots at people's religious practices that have nothing to do with israel.

"I don’t care about the religious side of things as I’m irreligious and it’s functionally all “be nice to people, duh” and the rest is pointless window dressing."

Pretty insulting, this is like a weirdly demeaning version of paraphrasing hillel. You're the only one in this thread denying people's identities man.