r/JewsOfConscience Jul 10 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

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u/GreenIguanaGaming Arab Muslim Ally Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 10 '24

Hi guys! I'm an Arab Muslim. Always enjoy passing by here.

My question relates to this video.

Quick intro: you can skip to the question part if it's TLDR.

So I think we all saw the Lucas Gage video where he uses a gladius to "make his ancestors proud" while tearing up the Israeli flag. He very quickly starts antisemitic tropes and blames everything on "The Jews" even mentions 9/11 🤦‍♂️ - - I'm atleast pleased to say that most of the comments under that video were calling it out.

Someone combined that video with one from Shahid Bolsen, he's an American Muslim revert who has interesting insights on politics and Islam.

Here's the question

On the topic of Antizionism being conflated with antisemitism.

Shahid speaks about the identity of Jewishness.

Classically, he says, in Islam and rabbinically, "a Jew" is one who follows and participates in Judaism. That the identity should stop there but it doesn't. He adds that the Historian Shlomo Sand says that non-religious Jews identify strongly as Jewish in one or more of 3 ways:

  1. By "Jewish blood" (which is more or less an antisemitic concept according to Sand)

  2. By the collective trauma of the Holocaust.

  3. The State of Israel. Which presents them with a place to go to be safe.

Shahid adds that this means that the non-religious Jewish identity is a construct forced upon them by Antisemites.

A Jewish person who does not believe or follow Judaism is still Jewish because non-Jews who hate Jews insist that they are Jews and won't allow them to be anything else.

I started to understand Jewishness as an Ethno-religious identity but I'd like to know how accurate Shahid's conclusion is to understand the concept further.

I am aware of the origins of JudenHass and Antisemitism which caused a shift.

Hate towards the people of the Jewish faith became a racist association between a language and race which made hate against Jewish people unavoidable. Even if a Jewish person became Christian, they'd still be considered Jewish.

Any opinions, thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

Edit: clarification

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u/DurianVisual3167 Jewish Jul 11 '24

There are many good replies to this already regarding how Judaism has become as much of a culture and ethnicity over the centuries. I also wanted to add that regardless of if the ethnicity formed in reaction to persecution or not (and this theory is up to debate/not universally accepted by Jews and historians/anthropologists) it's that group's right to form an identity in response. Even before Zionism there were Jews who saw themselves as a separate ethnicity than their neighbors in Europe/North Africa/Central Asia and beyond. It kind of rubs me the wrong way when non-Jews push their own ideas of what a valid Jewish identity is or isn't. It's not up to Christianity or Islam or whatever other religion to create guidelines or define who is or isn't a Jew.

Also I personally stay critical of anything Sand says because he comes across as contrarian for the sake of being contrarian imo. It's weird to me that he is given so much credit or painted as an anti-zionist when he doesn't support the right of return and supports a two state solution.

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u/GreenIguanaGaming Arab Muslim Ally Jul 11 '24

That's such a solid argument. I complete agree. And it's true, it's none of anyone's buisness how you identify yourself or how you outline your identity.

I appreciate you sharing your opinion on Sand as well. I'll keep your words in mind, another commenter made a similar statement. I'll be sure to question anything that comes from him.