r/JewsOfConscience Jul 10 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

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u/Horsepenny Jul 10 '24

Palestinian American here. I was wondering about the Jewish perspective on calling a Zionist a Nazi. The Zionists around me are mostly Christian, but I have also used this insult with Jewish Zionists, and something made me pause. I realized that (even though I give no shit what a Zionist feels), a nonZionist Jewish person might be party to that conversation (either online or by onlookers), and it may cause harm.

I only want to hurt the feelings of a Zionist, not the innocent people around me.

So, what is your opinion on the use of Nazi to describe Zionists?

(Another note - this is not how I start conversations. It is always in response to their insults. I usually get terrorist or other Islamophobic bullshit.)

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u/ohmysomeonehere Antizionist Jew Jul 10 '24

From a religious Jewish perspective, Zionism has caused more destruction to Jews than Naziism. While that is a nuanced claim from a religious perspective, the history as that the Zionists admired and promoted the Nazi genocide and evil racist ideology. They have admired the Nazis by copying their propaganda playbook to dehumanize anti-zionist jews and muslims. They have promoted Nazi genocide historically in direct collaboration with nazis to send more jews to the gas chambers as well as generally promoting antisemitism worldwide.

I fully support the juxtaposition of both these evil movements especially in the face of Jews who may not be aware of how much they overlap.

The flipside is that ir pushes against the hasbara lie that supporting Jews means supporting Israel. The zionist have long pushed this message in the most cynical way, promoting the nazi genocide and then offering full-hearted forgiveness to the Germans on behalf of all Jews for a small fee:

Zionism changed the perception the Jewish people had of themselves — from a religion to a nationality. State-ism changed the perception the Jewish people had of their interests and needs — from their own to those of the state of Israel... An example of this is how Ben-Gurion responded to critics of Israel’s reconciliatory attitude toward Germany after the holocaust, including taking “reparations” money from them on behalf of the six million. He said:

If the holocaust victims could have voiced an opinion about Israel-German relations, they would have said, “What is good for Israel is good for the entire Jewish people.”

State-ism elevated the state of Israel to representing the interests of all Jewish people. Its interests became the interests of all Jews. What was good for Israel was by definition good for the Jews, and what was bad for Israel was bad for the Jews. A friend of Israel is a friend of the Jews, and whoever doesn’t like Israel is an enemy of the Jews.

[Shapiro, Rabbi Yaakov. The Empty Wagon: Zionism's Journey from Identity Crisis to Identity Theft]

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u/Horsepenny Jul 10 '24

Zionists sicken me. Nazis sicken me. The mention of them causes me the same level of disgust and anguish. I will never save a Zionists feelings, regardless of their identity.

But Jewish people should not have to be hurt because of my anger. I don't want to use this insult if the general consensus is that it will hurt good people.

I am angry. I am not thinking rationally. I work across the street from a Zionist church, and have to keep my tongue every day. But the fucker in Walmart calling me a terrorist because of my kuffiyeh? I will verbally eviscerate them. However, I can stick to "Your grandmother weeps at the thought of your existence," or "Cunt", if Nazi is not a word that I should use.

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u/ohmysomeonehere Antizionist Jew Jul 10 '24

maybe i'm not as emotionally charged as you, but i think your focus should be on what can you say to change minds not what can you say to verbally roast the zionists. i mean, screaming at a zionist that he's a nazi, probably isn't going to change his mind. however, religious jews in Jerusalem screaming at the zionists "Nazis!", might inspire a question mark in some viewers.

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u/Horsepenny Jul 10 '24

They will never change their minds for a Palestinian woman. I will work with people who approach me with curiosity, but they want to hurt me. They have said they want me hurt. It would be so nice to educate. But I refuse to take their abuse lying down.

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u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 11 '24

But I refuse to take their abuse lying down.

And you absolutely shouldn't.

I would never attempt to 'intellectualize' the soldier occupying your people for decades on end.

I have zero patience and zero concern for 'shooting and crying' or other sad sack hasbara.

From an activist perspective, I do think pro-Palestine organizing should try to cast a wide net - but people also want to join Palestine solidarity regardless of compromises made with liberal Zionists et al.

The coalition of other student groups is vast and historically, Palestine solidarity has always been a litmus test for the Left.