r/JewsOfConscience • u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist • Apr 16 '24
History A sociological analysis of Israeli culture and history, the hypocrisy outlined.
Israel often claims that Israel existing means all Jews can now be in tune to their heritage and cherish the history.
Yet most of the very religious Jews in Israel, regardless of of descent, even if they are Mizrahim or Sephardim, dress in 19th/early 20th century Polish Ashkenazi fashion. The assimilation into the dominant eurocentric western culture has not preserved, but extirpated most unique Jewish traditions from various different Jewish groups around the world.
At the same time Israel en masse constantly devastates historical archeological sites (primarily by bombing them), and the environment of this new land that they colonised (and continue to colonise). The famous example of the cutting of ancient olive trees planted by Palestinians illustrates a complete lack of genuine connection to this land, which is seen as an entity to be dominated and brutalised, to be colonised and settled.
What is the land they supposedly see as the "Holy Land" made into? a slew of shopping malls and car centric concrete wastelands.
When Israel was created by Zionist ashkenazim, it was created knowing that the lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by the establishment of a Jewish state.” They were warned and knew that such a move would lead to geopolitical instability and that all Jews in arab countries would be seen as supporters of Zionism, that even Arab countries which previously maintained religious tolerance or had been on a path of progressive improvement would turn on Jews within their borders as a result
But this was all in line with the plan, as these people were intented as an underclass to be exploited anyway.
When Mizrahim got off the planes that brought them to Israel, first they were sprayed with the insecticide DDT to “disinfect” and “delouse” them. Then they were sent to live in transit camps known as ma’abarot — tent cities with no electricity, running water, or basic sanitation. Originally seen as completely inferior and barbarous, they were brought over with a false promise just to serve as an underclass of servants (thus the Israeli Black Panthers) for much wealthier Ashkenazi families.
Now, many decades later, a pseduo-acceptence has been achieved by assimilating into the monolithic Israeli western settler colonial culture, by Mizrahi kids just being told over and over again while growing up (including at school) that they are fundamentally different to and better than "the Arabs" (whom they share genetic ancestry and physical appearence with the majority of the time).
It's a twisted union through erasure of variation, assimilation and a shared sense of racist hatred directed at a third group. This is behind the general Mizrahi rightward political shift over the decades; attempts by Mizahim as a group to assert themselves as real Israelis.
Israeli culture behaves like any other racist colonial culture that has ever existed, it is alien to the land it finds itself in, it dominates and brutalises both the native inhabitants of this land (Palestinians) and the land itself, it appropriates some of the traditions of supposedly "savage", inherently "terrorist" Palestinians/Arabs (e.g. food) to be sold to tourists as curiosities and rebranded as uniquely Israeli culture (as opposed to non-speciifc and shared various various Arabs/Arabised peoples, but ironically not between European Jews and MENA Jews).
EDIT: minor edits were made post-hoc in a couple spots for the sake of better readability, and higher specificity/accuracy, for any future readers. 09/24
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Apr 16 '24
Yeah I feel sad for the families, culture and history of Iraqi Jews. Their history in Babylonia goes back millennia.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Apr 16 '24
By the time most Iraqi Jews came to Israel they were already mostly westernized in terms of dress. But culturally they have retained their customs, foods and traditions.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
whats most sad for me, aside from the astronomically greater and central issue of Palestinian suffering and ongoing genocide, is the hidden censored nature of Mizrahi history (by the Israeli govt). Mizahim in Israel are not even aware of this because their govt brainwashes them. If they did know how they've been manipulated i wonder what they'd think.
I hate it when liars write history.
There was for a time and could have continued to exist a Mizrahi-Palestinian alliance, but due to the manipulative divide et impera assimilationist approach of the israeli govt, that destroyed their civil rights movement, the exact opposite has happened, the average Mizrahi Israeli is extremely quick and decisive at distancing themselves from Palestinians, and has moved to the right. They'd fling theselves into a different universe if they could just to separate themselves from Palestinians..
It's such a lost opportunity
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Apr 16 '24
is the hidden censored nature of Mizrahi history (by the Israeli govt). Mizahim in Israel are not even aware of this because their govt brainwashes them. If they did know how they've been manipulated i wonder what they'd think.
Mizrahim are well aware of their own history. Israeli society is predominantly Mizrahi and Mizrahi culture is the dominant culture and continuing to thrive.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
Mizrahim are well aware of their own history.
Im not talking about mizrahim globally rather Mizrahim in israel. it's not taught in their schools and the vast majority of them dont have insight into what the society of their grandparents was pre-israel's formation
Israeli society is predominantly Mizrahi and Mizrahi culture is the dominant culture and continuing to thrive.
This is mentioned in a comment of mine as a common reactionary fallacious argument that misses the point, accidentally or intentionally. Its equivalent to "most mexicans have native ancestry so the country cant be eurocentric and racist"
From your comment history you sound like a zionist, or a fence sitter. Anyone active* and uncensored on israelpalestne and judaism is suspect, but the nature of your comments consirms that suspicion
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u/Emotional_Shop8741 Apr 19 '24
I'm sorry, this post seems so fringe and idiotic, and not at ALL accurate to Mizrahi experiences in Israel. MAJORITY of jews in Israel are Mizrahi, and it is VERY documented about our experiences from the middle east, living in the middle east, language, clothes, customs, etc in documentaries, in our educational textbooks, students discussing where their families come from (constant discussions bordering jokes over ashkenazi vs mizrahi food, culture, traditions, etc in the news, publicly, w friends). We have ethiopian jewish celebrations for their specific holidays in the country, we celebrate morrocan jewish mimouna after passover, there's literal quarters/ homogenous cultural groups in Jerusalem like the bukharian quarter, the armenian quarter, etc for different specific ethnic jewish groups. Families constantly intermix cultutal traditions, where grandparents could speak mixes of russian, arabic, persian, bukharian, etc wherever you go. History of Jews in the middle east, africa, europe, etc is very much taught in schools, especally in the context of the neighboring people groups we lived near, and our explusions.
Also, you said insight into our history?? Israel was only created less than 80 years ago, our grandparents were born BEFORE the creation of the state. Of course we know our history, what kind of take is this??
I hope you could take the time to educate yourself on the reality of Israelis, and stop the antagonization of different subsets of jewish groups; it's absurd how you're trying to explain to other Jews what life in Israel as a Mizrahi jew is like, when you yourself are not Jewish at all.
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Apr 16 '24
Thank you for this. People need to know.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
No problem. I wish people outside of the sub could be exposed to this, and it works best in video format, but it would just get removed.
i wanted to put some references but it took me a full hour to just paste and format this due to glitching (i believe reddit nukes my CPU because im using firefox w adblock, it freezes and computer fan starts being very loud)
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Apr 16 '24
They’re too indoctrinated.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
social media sites also are enforcing censorship top down and building echo chambers
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Apr 16 '24
My former father in law was an Ashkenazi Jew who married an Iraqi woman. He was overly racist.
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u/BrokenShanteer Communist Palestinian 🇵🇸 Apr 16 '24
Ok I don’t mean to interrupt but I have a Shiite Muslim friend who’s father was an Iraqi Shia and his mother was an ashkenazi Jew
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Apr 16 '24
He was really racist against all non-Asheknazi Jews, and even pretty prejudiced against Yiddish speaking Ashkenazi Jews.
I experienced this bias all throughout Israel.
I met Mizrahi activists who were teachers and professors at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
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u/SpicyStrawberryJuice Apr 16 '24
well written
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
i tried. I got a sudden drive to write this, because so many people have used the "half of israel are MENA jews so they are obviously native and how can Israel be eurocentric then" argument.
it's an argument that doesnt stand up to even light scrutiny, it's just one step removed from troll questions like "how is candace owens a white supremacist when shes black and you're white, you're the real racist!" and "how are proud boys white supremacist when latino", but because most people are both highly geopolitically campist as opposed to values oriented, and dont understand systems (e.g. systemic racism), it ends up convincing so many people.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
Yet most of the very religious Jews in Israel, regardless of of descent, even if they are Mizrahim or Sephardim, dress in 19th/early 20th century Polish Ashkenazi fashion
What gives you this impression? Most religious Ashkenazi and Sephardim/Mizrahim don't dress like that. That's a Haredi/Hasidic thing, and they have been dressing like that in Palestine for hundreds of years, since before the Zionist era. In fact, most who dress this way are non-Zionist or even anti-Zionist. A small number of Mizrahim who associate with Ashkenazi Haredi communities may dress like them, but that is a rare exception. Just look at the Sephardi Chief Rabbi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Yosef
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
my post doesnt talk about religious vs secular jews, it talks about highly religious jews, where a disproportionate amount of highly religious mizrahi jews adopt european ashkenazi styles of dress. No, they have not been dressing in polish ashkenazi outfits in Palestine "for hundereds of years", stop lying, thats enough.
this is how palestinian jews dressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews#/media/File:Jews_in_Jerusalem_1895.jpg
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u/nodogbutdog Apr 16 '24
Hassidic Jews in the US also dress like this. Both the Zionist and non-Zionist, they disagree on ethno-religious nationalism, but they do agree that black looks good. I liked your post but I would have liked to see a mention of the Ethiopian Jews and the stories of forced sterilization from the Israeli immigration authorities, who do not agree that black looks good.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Apr 16 '24
I really don't like how many in this sub and in the anti-Zionist community talk about Mizrahim. As someone who is very close to multiple Mizrahi and Sephardi communities, one of the good things about Israeli society is how it has enabled Mizrahi cultures and traditions to thrive.
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u/CarpeDiemMaybe Non-Jewish Ally Apr 16 '24
I understand the confusion, but there’s a lot of research and scholarly studies on how “mizrahim” was manufactured artificially in order to make MENA Jews believe in their Jewish superiority and prevent them from allying with Palestinians in their discrimination. There’s some great sources out there on this subject
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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Apr 17 '24
Could you share some of these sources? I’ll also say a lot of mizrahi Jews seem to STRONGLY reject ties to the Arab world because of the persecution their family faced… forced out of countries at gunpoint. I want their stories to be told too..
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
If you want to know about the term Mizrahi and how it evolved, Harvey Goldberg's "From Sephardi to Mizrahi and Back Again."
The stereotype that Mizrahim deny Arabness because of the persecution of their families is a tired cliche. The reasons for their antipathy to Arabness is still debated. Some scholars like Peled or Swirski adopted a materialistic approach and focused on the economic competition between Mizrahim and Palestinians after 1967. Others like Shohat and Shenhav analyzed it through from a discursive approach that they were trying to assert their Israeliness (which is probably more common in Mizrahi studies). But there's broad agreement across the spectrum that the hostility to the identity was home-grown in Israel2
u/specialistsets Non-denominational Apr 16 '24
I'm only referring to Mizrahi cultural practices and traditions, which are thriving in Israel despite what the original author of this post is asserting.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Apr 16 '24
Thanks to Israel for that. Allowing them to preserve their culture when the recent generations are pronouncing Hebrew like Israelis, dressing like penguins (including Yitzhak Yosef when he's not wearing his Ottoman-era chief rabbi garb, so don't try that crap like you did in other comments), and their religious education being dominated by Ashkenazi schools or Shas affiliated ones (aside from some smaller independent schools which barely get any funding). That's aside from their material deprivation by being disproportionately uneducated and impoverished, even after considering upward mobility and intermarriage with Ashkenazim (which in some ways has made things worse for Mizrahi communities).
I'm not saying we don't have some of these problems in the US, but we've thrived here without Israel.3
u/CarpeDiemMaybe Non-Jewish Ally Apr 16 '24
I’m not saying they didn’t see themselves as distinct pre-formation of state of Israel. Many ethnic and religious groups past and present in the region saw themselves in terms of their culture and history as distinct. But the Israeli state’s efforts in creating the construct of “Mizrahi” is well documented and its intention was clear
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
On the other hand, I really don't like how none of your comments in your entire comment history here condemn zionism, how you get regularly upvoted on israeli cesspit israelpalestine, and overall how you just sound like a closeted moderate zionist
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u/turtleduck Jewish Apr 27 '24
11d later but this person is still at it
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 27 '24
yeah i saw them in another thread, but stopped engaging because they were bad faith (plus they accused me of picking on them for responding to their comment in the thread)
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u/sleazy_b Apr 16 '24
Love it when a goy attacks jews in a jewish space.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Apr 16 '24
i love when troll alt accounts with no sub specific posting history come to brigade/pretend to be 2 different people
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u/TutsiRoach Apr 16 '24
I like to add it is utterly disregarding the natural balance if the land also
The destruction of native species both animal and plant life is unprecedented. The overuse of water resource is decreasing the lakes/seas/rivers and depleting useable groundwater at an unprecedented rate too and like the rivers replacing with toxic saline rubbish.
But back to people, i'm not entirely sure why but your post reminded me of this interview not long before oct 7th
https://youtu.be/lfDhaWlqXf8?si=r8XZGenUX1UvExy- not all bought into it, even when they moved at a young age.
The forced contraception of some darker jews entering the country form africa was also a thing https://www.jstor.org/stable/26554851#:~:text=Several%2520critics%2520claimed%2520that%2520%E2%80%9CDepo,side%2520effects%2520or%2520other%2520consequences.