r/JewsOfConscience • u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist • Mar 12 '24
Discussion Was anyone else radicalized on Palestine after going on Birthright?
Yes I know, Birthright is bad and literally just propaganda. I was a dumb college kid. My dad tried to convince me not to go, but I saw it as an opportunity to go get drunk and party in a Mediterranean country for free (and looking back, the thought of doing that in an occupied land is fucked up). I regret it, but in many ways that trip is what really woke me up to being an anti-Zionist. Prior to it, I was pretty agnostic on Israel/Palestine. I knew there was a lot of brainwashing in Hebrew school, but I didn’t know to what extent.
Anyways here’s a rundown of a lot of the things that happened on Birthright that helped wake me up on I/P. Sorry for the very long post, there are just so many things that happened on this trip that kind of broke my brain.
I was harassed at the airport. I don’t look stereotypically Jewish and don’t have a particularly Jewish name. The security pulled me aside and very intensely interrogated me in a side room. They asked me all sorts of questions for like 20 minutes about my family, if I remembered my Bar Mitzvah Torah portion, questions about Jewish holidays. I was singled out from the group because I don’t fit the mold of what American Jews look like. This doesn’t compare to the harassment that Palestinians face when coming back, but it was the first peek behind the curtain for me.
We were in Tiberias in the North for a couple days. They took us to Mount Bental in the Golan Heights, where they told us the amazing story of how Israel defended itself in the 1967 war and how they scared off Syrian forces by pretending they had a full force of tanks when they really didn’t (I don’t remember the full details). Anyways we’re at the top of the mountain and the tour guide is telling us about how Golan is rightfully Israeli territory and how important it is that they took it, because it would be a mess right now during the Syrian Civil War.
A lot of the staff at the resort we stayed at were Palestinian. They weren’t allowed to talk to us. One of them overheard me speaking on the phone to my parents in Spanish, and he told me he grew up in Mexico. So we conversed in Spanish, and he told me a lot about how hard life was beyond the green line, how the only real opportunity to make money is basically being the servant underclass for Israelis, and how he lost two siblings when he was very young. He told me all this in Spanish because I think he was being monitored.
On our way to Jerusalem, we took a shortcut through the West Bank. It felt so weird driving along a road that was insanely militarized and with a massive fence on the other side. Everyone on the bus is hungover and laughing and having a good time while there is a giant militarized fence on the other side of the road.
I can’t remember at what point on the trip, but one evening we had a representative from the Israeli government come to our hotel and give us all a lecture about Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) and all sorts of archaeological digs and discoveries that they had made.
We get to Jerusalem and they take us to Mount Scopus, where there’s a big ceremony with drumming and singing Hebrew songs. This is where the Israeli soldiers joined our trip. Of course all the kids on the trip start fawning over them. A couple soldiers asked me about my ethnic background, asked if I was part-Arab. When I said I might be (because Jews and Arabs intermingled a lot in Andalusian Spain and then in Morocco), they gave me a stank face. A lot of these soldiers also looked ethnically Sephardi or Mizrahi, so it was odd of them to judge me for saying I’m probably part-Arab.
One soldier in particular was interested in me and she wouldn’t stop asking me questions and just having conversations with me. I was 19, she was 21/22 and way out of my league, so naturally I was enthralled by her. She basically would not leave my side for the rest of the trip. The propaganda hot girls are very real.
They take us to the Western Wall. Most of the other kids were having spiritual moments and crying and just being overwhelmed with emotions being there. I was impressed by the size and age of the wall, but I frankly felt more culturally tied to things when I visited southern Spain and Morocco (the Sephardi homeland).
We go to a Bedouin camp in the desert. The guide tells us how Bedouins are “good Arabs” because they took Israeli citizenship and many serve in the army. We also went to one of the unrecognized Bedouin villages in the Negev. It felt weird going somewhere as a tourist to visit a place that is severely neglected by the government. The soldiers left our trip around this point, but they said they might meet up with us again in Tel Aviv later.
We’re in Tel Aviv towards the end of the trip. We get a free half-day to wander around. The tour guide told us not to go to Jaffa because “it’s dangerous”. We had a lovely time, the Arab people were incredibly kind and generous.
I went to a market to buy olive oil for my mom. The merchant told me that the keffiyeh I was wearing was “made in China bull shit” so he gave me an authentic keffiyeh with my purchase. He told me to remember that Palestinians are real people, that they exist, and that they just want to be able to live their lives in peace. This conversation really woke me up.
I bought a Hapoel Tel Aviv soccer jersey in a souk in Jaffa. Some of the soldiers that came back to meet us asked me why I’d wear the “Communist” and “Arab lover” team shirt.
It’s our last night on the trip. The soldiers go out with us for drinks and hookah. The female soldier that was buddying up to me bought me a ton of drinks that night. We slept together that night, said bye in the morning, and then the group was on its way back to the US.
That female soldier messaged me for months telling me how badly she wanted to move to America. It really felt like she wanted me to marry her or that she was desperate to leave Israel.
Looking back, I can’t tell if this was a unique experience to me that I left Birthright so disillusioned with Israel. Basically everyone else who was on that trip is posting pro-Israel stuff online. I had to cut off contact with most of them, I can’t believe people have been so fully indoctrinated that they cannot see the humanity in Palestinians.
Anybody else who went on Birthright have experiences that changed your views on Israel? I’d love to know.
Edit: another thing that really struck me was the lack of Ladino or Yiddish speakers or culture. I asked the tour guide about the languages and he said that most Ladino speakers eventually just adopted Hebrew, and that the only people that really spoke Yiddish are Chasids.
I’m not fluent in either but I do speak a bit of both. I think it’s so interesting that we have these diasporic languages that blend the local vernacular with Hebrew and other languages. It wasn’t till I got home that I did research and found out that those languages were repressed in favor of Modern Hebrew so that there would be a “cohesive Israeli identity”.
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u/EldritchWineDad Mar 12 '24
I didn’t want to go on it but my parents pressured me. It was happening during the last gasp of my Zionism. Nothing really happened as much as my fear that I had nothing in common with anyone there came true, either we were somewhere very religious and I couldn’t deal with the irrationality and misogyny or we were somewhere that looked like a strip mall in Florida with people whistling at the girls and making rude comments. I tried to have a moment of feeling Jewish or at home and it never came. Also I got swine flu and was a zombie the whole time. It sucked and when I got back and took a few weeks to reflect, i was no longer a Zionist. It would take a few more years before I could confidently say I was anti Zionist.
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u/moistavocados95 Mar 12 '24
Didn't have the same experience as you but definitely came back from birthright significantly more critical of Israel.
For our trip they had someone from the media explaining the right/left wing views in Israel and it was starting to sound like what xenaphobes and racists in America sound like. And had some aspects of replacement theory in terms of keeping Israel majority Jewish.
What really kicked me over was the BLM movement that regained momentum shortly after coming back from birthright and seeing the intersectionality.
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u/TML4L Mar 12 '24
Thank you for sharing, I can't speak much about the BR trip since I grew up there, but the experiences you mentioned are the exact reason why I am the way I am.
My biggest eye-opening moment was experiencing Hebron, and the treatment of minorities - that really made me look inwards.
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u/inbloom843 Mar 12 '24
Same. I visited Hebron as an adolescent with my family, and am scarred for life by what I saw.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Mar 13 '24
My dude, the Palestinian residents of Hebron are not the minority. The whole insane military prison vibe is to protect a couple of thousand lunatics living right in the centre of a large Arab city.
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u/finiteloop72 Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
Hey, similar story here. I was also a dumb college student who was already indoctrinated and basically heard “free vacation,” and felt like I would have been stupid to turn it down. I think my trip was experimental and so a little different from other birthright trips. I look more like a “typical” Ashkenazi American Jew and still got some questioning at the airport that I thought was weird, although not nearly to the level you did. The most striking part of the trip to me is that we stayed at a kibbutz in the West Bank (settlement). As far as I can remember, no one warned us ahead of time. I remember the massive militarized wall around the settlement, it felt like a war zone. Even at that time it felt extremely abnormal to me. Of course now I know that is the reality of the occupation and reflect on it as extraordinarily depressing.
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u/Donnarhahn Mar 12 '24
Farming trips out to WB settlements is common now. They are trying to normalize annexation of the Jordan Valley.
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u/neurotic9865 Mar 12 '24
Thank you for sharing your story. My husband is Jewish and last night I asked him why he never went to birthright when his brother did, and they were very much raised in a community where everyone went. He said even as a young college kid it felt like extreme propaganda and off-putting.
His brother went, and came back pretty much a pro-Israel, anti arab zealot. I hate to say it, but his brother is not very bright and very much prone to falling for propaganda.
I should add that I'm arab, and am seen as a worst case scenario from a zionist perspective for my husband, who is seen as a catch in the Jewish community. It's all racist propaganda. We are all human beings and no one can control the woman they came out of and where that happened to be.
My husband has been embraced by my family and community, and no one cares that he's Jewish, or that I, along with our children took his stereotypically jewish last name. I unfortunately cannot say the same for the Jewish community and their treatment of me.
This reddit community gives me hope for the future generations ending the hate and trauma, and healing towards a more tolerant future. However long into the future that may be.
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
Jesus fucking christ, they can’t even hide their revolting racism when they’re trying to brainwash American mizrachim/sefardim as drunk children 🤦🏻♀️ I’m very sorry to hear about this, but honestly if they’re radicalizing people on the free vacation that’s supposed to do the opposite, I take that as somewhat good news…. Don’t over-apologize for going to birthright, if you didn’t know it’s not your fault! Before I really started educating myself I thought it sounded super fun.
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
I’m an Ashki/Sephardi mutt and I don’t look stereotypically Jewish at all. I’ve gotten pinned as everything from Latino to Italian to Arab to Greek to even Hawaiian or Filipino. I just found it so appalling that many of the Israelis we met who were very clearly of Arab or Berber or mixed ancestry were judgmental of Arabs or people like me who look Arab.
Unfortunately my friend and I were in the minority of people who were radicalized in the opposite direction. I think most people who went on that trip fully bought into the propaganda, save for maybe 1 or 2 other kids I’ve kept in contact with.
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
Yes, I don’t want to be naïve, I know that most people are going to be radicalized in the opposite direction :/ So horribly chilling that even someone who’s simply ethnically ambiguous is getting harassed and spoken rudely to, I hate these racist mfs so much lol.
I do find it darkly hilarious when someone who looks…. totally arab…. gets on tiktok or something and goes on a rant about how genetically superior they are to arabs (almost as funny as some sheet-white ashki who’s clearly from Poland’s armpit claiming that it’s their true homeland…)
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u/Donnarhahn Mar 12 '24
It's common for 2nd rung citizens of colonial societies to have disdain for the lowest members despite any similarities they may have. This was especially common in the slave societies of the Caribbean and South America, where mixed race individuals were more than happy to serve as enforcers for the slaveholders.
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Mar 25 '24
Really love this point…. Do you have a source for this, specifically making parallels to the de facto caste system in Israel? I’ve been thinking about your comment since you posted it but I haven’t been able to find anything myself. Or at least anything that describes this as a broad symptom of colonialism (rather than endemic to west indies etc)? ty
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u/Donnarhahn Mar 25 '24
In Latin America it was The Casta System. The British took advantage of India's preexisting caste system during their rule there as well. And in the US there was a similar system of lighter skinned slaves serving as House Slaves. This stereotype is known commonly as an Uncle Tom, which refers to an oppressed person who believes wholeheartedly in the system of oppression and actively enforces it upon themselves and others.
There are close parallels in Israel. Lowest to highest the ladder is non-citizen Muslims, non-citizen Christians, citizen Muslims, citizen Christians, citizen Mizrahi, citizen Ashkenazi, citizen Haredim, and at the top is anyone who can trace their patrilineal line to a Cohen or Levi, but this last one is super old school and most Israelis don't care about it. This is just a rough outline and there are lots of edge cases(like the Druze) and grey areas but its a good place to start.
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Mar 25 '24
I am familiar with workings various caste systems, especially the one in Israel. I was wondering if you had a specific source that also draws explicit parallels between older colonial caste systems with the one in Israel, or a source that makes this point broadly rather than delving into historical or present structures (i.e, rather than describing, makes your point that it is a distinguishing feature of a colonial society). I guess it's your own analysis. Thanks anyways though!
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u/Donnarhahn Mar 25 '24
Yes, my own analysis.
Here is a great article with some background on demographic politics in Israel. It's older(uses the term Oriental instead of Mizrahi) but does a great job explaining how the Likkud was able win their vote from Labour by addressing their legitimate class grievances. Writing like this helped inform my analysis.
You say you are familiar with Israel's defacto caste system. Do you see any glaring mistakes in my analysis? I would appreciate feedback.
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24
I mean, I can’t grade your comment on Reddit like a thesis lol. However, I think it’s a really, really important point that personally has stuck in my brain since you made the connection. It’s a great insight that I think bolsters arguments about Israel as a colonial entity — I’d maybe look into parallels in apartheid South Africa too. If I were you and also had the means etc, I’d try and expand on it and send it to be published somewhere tbh, like Jewish Currents or some maybe n+1 or something. Idk what your goals are? 😭
I’d try and bring in some theoretical foundations. I don’t consider myself thoroughly well-read in terms of postcolonial/critical geography (technically I’m not even a college graduate lol) but I used a lot of Fanon’s work when I * was *writing about Israel in college, the ideas in Black Skin, White Masks about dependency + inferiority seem applicable to this. Been a hot minute since i looked at it though… Wretched of the Earth applies more to Palestinian society as it is a defense of the colonized subject using force against colonial state. I haven't read this either, but it was sitting in my Unwieldy and Horrible PDF Hoard and it jumped out as useful.
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u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Mar 12 '24
Never went on birthright, my mom is Jewish but has always been pretty opposed to Israel as well as organized religion as a whole. On the other hand my cousin's did and one of them ended up joining the IDF a few months later.
That was a good story, thank you for sharing
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u/tryingtokeepthefaith Middle Eastern Muslim Mar 12 '24
Thank you so much for sharing OP - very important information.
It must take enormous amounts of empathy and critical thinking to break free from the intense, evil indoctrination, so I have huge amounts of respect for you.
Solidarity, from an Arab Muslim. ✊🏽🇵🇸
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
Thank you for the kind words.
I think a lot of it is how I was brought up. My family was always very left-wing politically and I was always taught to judge people on their actions, not on where they’re from or how they look.
I grew up in a diverse community and had many Arab and Muslim friends, we went to school and played soccer together. They invited me to Eid parties to celebrate the end of Ramadan, I invited them to my Bar Mitzvah.
I think a lot of American Jews live in a bubble where they do not meet Arabs or Muslims, or at least their interactions with them are limited. If you are told that Arabs/Muslims hate Israel, and by proxy all Jews, then obviously they’ll be terrified of Arabs/Muslims. Especially people of my age, the generation that grew up post-9/11.
My Arab and Muslim friends, even at a young age, told me they had no problems with Jews (and that we are religious cousins), but that they didn’t like Israel. They understood that distinction and made it very clear.
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u/tryingtokeepthefaith Middle Eastern Muslim Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
You’re very welcome.
Of course - I for one can tell you that I never have and never will have a problem with Jews (or any human beings). Tho I will, naturally, ALWAYS have a problem with any human beings that try to make me inferior to them (regardless of their background).
And Judaism and Islam are extremely similar (as you highlighted in your comment: « we are religious cousins »), so Jews really do feel like family (not Zionists tho ofc). I even eat Kosher meat whenever I realllllllyyy want to eat meat and can’t find halal options available (which serves as one example of just how close our religious practices are). 😎
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u/BeanyBoE Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
I’m so happy that the propaganda didn’t work out with the intended purpose for you. I think unfortunately your story and others similar to yours are the minority. Going on the Brithright strengthened my cousins in laws view about Zionism and has made them proud Zionists. So much so that they use it as the excuse of Palestinians don’t didn’t have it bad because they saw it first hand.
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u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
Kind of, yeah. I didn't get why anyone would ever want to live in Israel. I felt bad for the Israelis who joined us on our trip (worse for the Palestinians, of course), having to live in such a small area the size of New Jersey, being unable to travel outside of that because everyone around hates you, having to live in a desert where a tiny forest is an achievement, everyone around you carrying guns, being forced to be in the army where you could get killed. I felt like the trip was supposed to be a recruitment to get us to want to move to Israel, and all I could think of was "hell fucking no, why would anyone want to live here". They also pointed out the Palestinian areas and you could tell how rundown they were and one of the girls on the trip gave some bullshit reason of how it was their fault it was like that, and I remember thinking that wasn't what I had heard about that. We interviewed random Israelis in the square asking if they thought the conflict in Israel would ever get better and all of them were pessimistic about it. The time I went there was also a gathering where all the birthright trips came together for a concert and Netanyahu gave a speech, and we were all given Israeli flags to wave and they said whoever cheered the loudest would get put on the video that was playing above us, and there were these elaborate light displays that would have been cool at a good concert, but the whole thing felt creepy to me, like extreme propaganda. I sometimes think of the Israelis I met on the trip and what they are thinking now, and whether they've woken up to what an awful place they live in is, and the brainwashing they've undergone, and whether they feel bad about what their country is doing and want to leave.
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u/MetaphorSoup Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
I remember the massive concert from my trip, although Bibi didn’t speak at mine. We all had on identical t-shirts and they played us videos of, like, smiling soldiers romping through fields at sunset. I was an impressionable 20 yr old and I fell for a lot of stuff on that trip, but I could clearly see that this was a huge propaganda fest. It felt scary. That was the moment on the trip where it clicked as to why Birthright was free: the clear expectation that all those kids become staunch supporters and defenders of Israel back in the US. You “pay” by being indoctrinated. And, of course, most of the thousands of people around me were having an awesome time. Birthright is extremely effective propaganda.
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u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Mar 12 '24
I think at my trip Netanyahu actually said he wanted us to consider moving to Israel, that's why it felt like a recruitment trip, but I can see how it's probably usually just to get everyone to be defenders of Israel.
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u/MetaphorSoup Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
They also told us a lot of stories over the course of the trip of Americans who moved to Israel/joined the IDF in a very aspirational way, so I think there was pressure in that direction, too. Some of the videos definitely felt like IDF recruitment ads.
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u/notodibsyesto Mar 12 '24
Thank you for sharing this. I never went on birthright because I started noticing that every time my peers came back from it, there would inevitably be some story about "so and so on my group hooked up with a soldier." It felt predatory.
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u/jrobcarson03 Mar 12 '24
I did birthright and am a little ashamed to say that on some level, the propaganda worked. I enjoyed the trip, made friends, felt connected to being Jewish for the first time in a long time. But after returning home, I became disillusioned quickly and looked back on a lot of my experiences through the lens of propaganda. In a lot of ways the whole experience has made me feel more ashamed of being Jewish as it conflated my ideas of being a Jew with Israel. Thanks for making this post, I feel like a lot of what you and commenters have said resonates with me.
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u/Russel_Jimmies95 Mar 12 '24
Don’t feel bad about going on birthright and having a good time, feel GOOD about going on birthright and using it as a real learning experience rather than drinking up the propaganda without thinking.
- Non-Jewish Palestinian
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
Thank you. One of my friends is Jordanian/Palestinian and he actually encouraged me to go. I think he sensed that I would be able to parse through the propaganda and see the moral rot and decay.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
I never did BR. I was never really interested. My mom is Jewish but I was raised in a mixed faith (Italian Catholic) household I didn’t actually have any formal religious education. It just always felt wrong to me because my heritage is Russian (Ukraine now) and Polish (Belarus now). Those always felt like the places I should go to reconnect.
Weirdly enough, Italy didn’t feel like heritage to me either. As much as American Jews have a ton of intergenerational trauma, the Italian side of my family has more (great grandpa came here with his brothers to work on the railroad and then his brothers took the money and went back to Italy, leaving him in the US with nothing, unable to speak English.)
Anyways that’s not relevant but I saw some criticism of Birthright when I was in my late teens about how Palestinians are being kept out of their homeland and it just made me glad I never did it.
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u/justtakessometime48 Ashkenazi Mar 12 '24
I spent a long time not regretting it at all (in some ways I still dont) as 1- it was a free trip I never would have been able to do (this is def outweighed now but for a long time it mattered a lot to me) and 2- I went on a really unique one that was very pro Palestine? We met with Palestinian organizers and of the IDF people with us , a third of them were pro Palestine organization members - so it helped to see that that exists there. (For note- those individuals jobs in the IDF were not related to military whatsoever).
HOWEVER: one of the nights we had a guest speaker and the propaganda was wild. He told us to consider whether we were Americans who happen to be Jewish or Jews who happen to live in America and pressured us to always vote with Israel in mind as it’s our only “true homeland”. The luck I had with our guide being low key an organizer made my trip better, but I do think the program as a whole is net negative.
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u/hi_cholesterol24 non-religious raised jewish Mar 12 '24
Thank you sm for sharing! I never went on birthright bc it just felt weird to me… Since Oct 7, joining this group, and reading a lot I too have been reflecting on the loss of Yiddish for an almost dead Hebrew language. Fascinating
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u/OrphanedInStoryville Mar 12 '24
Thanks for posting this! I have nothing constructive to add but I’m just impressed by the straitforward way you talk about all this. Glad I never went
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
It was so easy to cut through the propaganda, I couldn’t believe that the majority of people on the trip bought it hook, line, and sinker. Maybe it’s the way I was raised and learned to think critically, but I couldn’t believe everyone else just ate it up, no questions asked.
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u/bz0hdp Mar 12 '24
Your message sounds very thematically similar to Zone of Interest
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
I just watched it this weekend so I’ve been ruminating on its themes.
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u/bz0hdp Mar 12 '24
I know it's fraught to compare the Holocaust to the occupation of Palestine but there are parallels. All of us are, however inadvertently, complicit in political horrors. It's like the modern day version of original sin.
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u/Comparably_Worse Sephardic Mar 13 '24
The linguistic repression is real. So much is lost when a language is starved. Thank you for sharing your story, the alienation you must have felt in these moments goes to my heart. I still wish I'd gone on the trip when I was young, if only to see what I now see.
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u/idfk78 Mar 13 '24
Were the employees at the resort really not allowed to talk to you??????? Oh my god
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Mar 13 '24
We slept together that night
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Ayyyyye!!
A smokeshow in her twenties who was 'way out of your league' banged your teenage ass, and that's all you have to say about it?!
You got to tell us more, you chad!
But seriously, do you think she was just partying, or was there something more to it?
I can't imagine anyone would volunteer or even be paid to seduce birthrighters like some kind of spy novel honeypot operation, but it's an interesting thought.
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 13 '24
I’m not one to talk too much about that stuff.
I think she liked me and had a good time, but there is also a weird sexual dynamic on the Birthright Trip itself. You see the male soldiers eye balling the girls on the trip, you see the guys on the trip checking out the female soldiers. Everyone talks about who’s the hottest, etc. It really seemed like the soldiers would kind of attach themselves to a clique or certain people and sometimes sparks would fly.
There’s a weird tension in the air, and it doesn’t help when at times throughout your trip you’re told in essence that Jews are an “endangered species” and there’s a lot of intermarriage in the West.
There’s a bunch of articles and stories about the weirdly psychosexual nature of Birthright trips if you look around online.
I don’t think it’s like a honeypot situation per se, but they definitely seemed to send really attractive soldiers to our Birthright trip, and it seems there’s a pattern of that on many others.
One girl on my trip ended up marrying one of the soldiers from our trip, though he ended up moving to the US rather than her going to Israel.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Mar 13 '24
Suuuper interesting, thanks.
I drove around Israel for a couple of weeks, and spent a few nights in the West Bank, so I'm extra interested in this topic.
I've heard a lot of different things about the Israeli psyche. One of course is the 'party because we might die tomorrow' attitude of Tel Aviv. I believe Israel has one of the highest rates of consumption of MDMA. And it totally makes sense. A crazy mix of hedonism and fatalism.
As for cynical attempts to woo Birthrighters by matching them with good looking IDF conscripts, I have zero doubt the government and rich donors would endorse that. Just one question I think you kinda answered at the start, but are the vast majority of kids Ashkenazi?
As for the 'brainwashing' that goes on. I've mentioned it before, but the signing/chanting/jumping/moshing I saw at the Western Wall and Masada had a religious ecstatic overtones. Of course the IDF would be masters at creating strong bonds between conscripts.
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 13 '24
Yeah most of the kids on the trip were Ashkenazi. I was the only one who at least visibly wasn’t.
I forgot about the moshing and jumping and dancing. We did it on Mt Scopus when we first got to Jerusalem, and then again at Masada. The whole “we’re still here” kind of thing.
I was doing a project for a religion class about the Pentecostal church and the snakehandling, speaking in tongues, spiritual fervor. It wasn’t too far off from what they had us doing on the trip.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Mar 13 '24
Yeah, the Masada thing was pretty freaky. Basically celebrating the idea that the Zealots fought off the mighty Roman legion, then killed themselves rather than be captured. Of course, the actual archaeological record may not be in alignment with the story, but as has been pointed out many times elsewhere, plenty of countries use nationalist myths to justify their behaviours and actions.
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u/sailorjupiter28titan Non-Jewish Ally Mar 12 '24
Did you miss a sentence here?
We’re in Tel Aviv towards the end of the trip. We get a free half-day to wander around. The tour guide told us not to go to Jaffa because “it’s dangerous”. We had a lovely time, the Arab people were incredibly kind and generous and told us that when we go home,
What did they tell you?
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
I edited it! It was meant to connect to the story of the guy who gave me a keffiyeh and told me to remember that his people exist! Just a gap I forgot to fill when writing/editing. Thanks for pointing it out.
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u/littlemachina Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
I regret not going on birthright for this reason. I only went to Israel with my family to visit family, didn’t interact with anyone I’m not related to. Would’ve been nice to get a broader perspective because I literally had no idea what was going on.
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u/Welcomefriend2023 Post-Zionist Mar 12 '24
I'm too old to have gone on these Birthright trips (my zio indoctrination was in the 60s partly via the 1960 film EXODUS which really brainwashed my generation). But one thing I learned in another group is that most kids who go on Birthright get laid a lot. 😁
My kids are in their 20s/30s but they were fully homeschooled although they were active in Chabad. I don't know if there is any connection btw the two though.
Your story was fascinating and moving.
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u/CommrAlix Mar 13 '24
thank you for sharing this. zionist propaganda is so fucking weird man. i'm glad you met some nice palestinian folks on your trip
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u/adeadhead Masortim Mar 12 '24
Hey, I'm a mod of /r/birthright, and I'd love if you posted this there. I can't promise it'll be well received.
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
Last time I posted about Palestine in a largely Jewish/pro-Israel space, I got doxxed. Someone DM’d me my full name and my address. Had to create a new Reddit account. I’d rather not stir the pot.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Mar 12 '24
i wonder how they doxx you
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u/MilesDavis_Stan Reconstructionist Mar 12 '24
Maybe IP addresses? I don’t know. I was a lot more open about stuff on my old account, so maybe there was stuff in my post history that helped them piece it together.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Mar 12 '24
Certainly part of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/hacking/comments/il3gtq/how_does_doxxing_work_and_how_do_people_do_it/
check out dm btw
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u/Welcomefriend2023 Post-Zionist Mar 12 '24
Use a free VPN and diff handle and email for each social media.
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u/OrphanedInStoryville Mar 12 '24
Woah! How did they let you be a mod there if you’re also a poster here who’s (I’m assuming) critical of Israel’s actions? It is way more progressive than I’m assuming? are you some sort of double agent?
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u/Donnarhahn Mar 12 '24
They are a recent Israeli immigrant from the US who is active in the pro Palestinian movement. I think they may work for birthright, or at least volunteer for it.
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u/adeadhead Masortim Mar 13 '24
My first job when I made aliyah was doing the interviews for one of the birthright organizers, back before I started doing as much west bank activism as I do now.
The sub is not in any way progressive, but for my part I assure people the trips are safe and promote https://extendprograms.org/ in an attempt to undo some of the harm.
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u/TendieRetard Non-Jewish Ally Apr 01 '24
Truthfully, I think BDS needs to include another S for sabotage. I would welcome every antizionist Jew to take the place of a gullible Jew to be indoctrinated. Cost Israel money, hell, do some proselytizing of your own. Go on a roadtrip to WB
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u/TendieRetard Non-Jewish Ally Apr 01 '24
As a Goyim (sp?) when I looked into "birthright" and its origins, it told me all I needed to know. I put the sources in this thread if anyone cares:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BadHasbara/comments/1bn0k3k/we_defend_share_americas_valuesif_those_values/
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u/AnonBcPplKnowMeIRL Mar 12 '24
i always say the only things i got out of birthright was getting laid and coming to the conclusion that i didnt want to be affiliated with judaism anymore.
i was there during the 08 bombings if that gives context. i can only imagine how much more fashy it is on the streets there now and it was pretty bad then, although i never fully understood why.
i read the new historians for a bit later on and fully got a picture of the formation. avi shlaim goes more into what you are talking about re: identity and language. benny morris opened my eyes a lot; really was odd how someone can cut through lies like he does, claim to be left wing, yet anyone on the outside looks at him as a hardcore fascist.
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u/bballsuey Apr 01 '24
Was Benny Morris ever a lefty? He did an interview with Ari Shavit in Haaretz and said the zionists should have ethnically cleansed all the Palestinians and that Palestinian Israelis are a ticking time bomb that will need to be ethnically cleansed too.
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u/AnonBcPplKnowMeIRL Apr 18 '24
he claims that he is. what he writes, what he says, and what he believes are one big mishmash
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u/Medium_Note_9613 Anti-Zionist Jul 05 '24
Benny morris is the rare type of fascist ofthis era. More common types are like, "it didn't happen, but they deserved it" when talking about a genocide.
Benny Morris is like "it happened and they deserved it".
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u/gluckspilze Mar 13 '24
Amazing post. I wish I had an equally good memory.
Did any of you do "Gadna"? The army training immersion experience? Maybe it wasn't part of Birthright, but it was part of the Israel Tour I did (I'm from the UK).
I wonder if anyone else can flesh out my memory of Gadna. Aside from learning how to strip and shoot an M16 rifle, I have a hazy memory of a weird culty ritual thing that in retrospect seems so calculated. We were sleep deprived teens. I think we were then woken up, and led silently to a dark room where our Mefakedet (?) sat us in a hushed candle-lit circle. I think they were just tealights but symbolically it was like yarzheit (memorial) candles for martyred soldiers. In the centre was a rifle. We watched as she took very shitty plastic roses and delicately placed them in the barrel of the gun. Then we had a very emotive lecture about the IDF laying down their lives for the Jewish people, I wish I could remember it better, and hope someone else does. I do remember that there was mention of Arab children being made to carry suicide bombs, and how we should pity the soldiers who had to decide to shoot them....
I also remember the heavily sexualised hormonal apocalyptic Jewish repopulation vibe 😆. Though my experience wasn't like OPs! It was more like a British teen comedy movie where the confused awkward nerd virgin (alright, the awkward queer nerd virgin irl) does everything they can to avoid anything fun happening, whilst hot girls delight in my flustered awkwardness, and their newfound suntanned sexual power. I remember on the army base getting summoned/physically pushed into the packed women's shower block to remove a toad?! Bit unfair on the naked girls who weren't part of the 'joke'. I was also propositioned in a mall by a bored Eilat sex worker. She must have been two foot taller than my pale sweaty pubescent self.
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u/Warriorasak Mar 16 '24
Sort of, by proxy. My friend is jewish. He told me about the I/P in 2003. After his trip. I then went to the levant years after, started reading finkelstein, and, chomsky, etc
Im not a jew. But i saw the truth
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u/fhkedhbdxvfdc Apr 01 '24
Similar but different. I went on March of the living which is essentially birthright but it starts with a week long traumatization extravaganza where they tour you through all the death camps in Poland, make you stand in the gas chambers where your ancestors died and remind you over and over again that "this could have been you!"
Then after a week of sleep and food deprivation (they only fed us expired Passover el Al meals the entire time in Poland so as to not contribute to the polish economy) they take you to Israel where every night it's a different party on a different military base.
I remember after a few days being so disgusted that we had spent a week learning all the horrible things that result from war, but then glorifying war in Israel. I went home from March of the Living and started reading Finklestein and was a passionate anti Zionist a few weeks later. Wish these trips had this effect on more people. Thanks for sharing!
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u/Dildobagginsthe245th Oct 25 '24
My friend went to Birthright then freaked out and moved to Israel and is like so incredibly brain washed now speaks with an accent like he lived there his whole life it’s fucking massively weird
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u/TsinoizItna1 Oct 06 '24
Thanks for sharing. I am finally realizing the whole idea of birthright is to give us all (Jews in America) a false sense of ownership over the land in Israel as a form of brainwashing us to take sides with Israel.
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u/Fun_Pension_2459 Mar 12 '24
Wow, That's an incredible story. You should not apologize for it being long. Keep telling it. It's very important for people to hear.
Good on you. I have heard stories of people rethinking everything after birthright. I think it takes a huge amount of moral integrity to be able to see through that highly effective propaganda.
Have you watched Israelism? It describes a similar journey.