r/JewsOfConscience Feb 13 '24

Humor Just too funny...

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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Feb 14 '24

I actually think it is unfair to lump all Zionists together into one big objectionable category. To me that reflects a lack of imagination about Zionism. Zionism is both a contemporary real-world political movement with a specific developmental trajectory, and an abstract concept. Any Jew in history who yearned for the reestablishment of a Jewish state in the Holy Land could be called a Zionist. The Jews in exile in Egypt could be called Zionists. Moses Maimonides could be called a Zionist. Not to mention Christian Zionists. And today, not everyone who desires a Jewish state in the Holy Land is at all equivalent in terms of standards of ethical behavior when pursuing that project.

However, my preferred term for the ugly political movement we see in the U.S.A. today is perhaps even more politically incorrect than Zionist. It's "pro-genocide ethnonationalists," e.g., "no pro-genocide ethnonationalists."

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u/ProjectiveSchemer Feb 14 '24

"Any Jew in history who yearned for the reestablishment of a Jewish state in the Holy Land could be called a zionist" you could call anyone involved in competitive running a racist, but it would be at odds with how most people use the word. Even Neturei Karta's eschatology involves a Jewish kingdom in Eretz Yisrael in the Messianic age, and of all the criticisms levelled at them I've never heard them called zionist.

The innovation of Jewish zionism in 19th century Europe was to try to establish such a state WITHOUT the prophesied Messiah, which was widely rejected both by Orthodox Jews who saw it as forcing G-d's hand and Reform Jews who saw Judaism as a religion rather than a nationality.