r/EmpireDidNothingWrong • u/HartemLijn • Apr 02 '17
META A message from r/theitalyplace
Dear r/EmpireDidNothingWrong, I want to apologize on behalf of all r/italy and r/theitalyplace for trying to attack your subreddit's creation and I swear we will immediately stop our expansion and let your symbol alone if you all will help us to contrast and repel the attack that right now we are experiencing from the communists near our flag. If you will be willing to help us, we will help rebuild and recreate the symbol that we damaged. Peace?
8
u/comrade_batman Director of Imperial Promotion Apr 02 '17
5
3
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 02 '17
Too late, the treaty between the empire and the communists has been signed. The italian takeover will be foiled.
5
u/otness_e Apr 02 '17 edited Apr 02 '17
...
I joined the Empire specifically because the Rebels were communists (ask George Lucas, he'll tell you that their ideology was similar to that of the VC), and I have no intention of letting us ally with the communists, not after what they did to my religion, and other religions on my home planet.
Me? I most certainly will help Italians fight off the Communists, with or without the Empire's help, although I do hope the Empire does help.
2
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 02 '17
The only rebel who is anything close to a communist is Saw Gerrera. I hail from the same home planet, communism is a moneyless, classless and stateless society. Which is the next best thing to the glory and order of the Empire.
4
u/otness_e Apr 03 '17
Next best thing? They're complete opposites. For starters, the Empire DOES have money, and in fact, they actually made only ONE currency legal, which are Credits. It was a lot closer to moneyless when it was the Galactic Republic, where there were a lot of currency types to such an extent that Republic credits actually had no use in places like Tatooine despite the latter technically being under Republic jurisdiction. Either that, or the Star Federation.
As far as classless, ignoring for one moment that "classlessness" is a stupid idea since, when someone has a differing rank than you, whether a government official or a military officer, you HAVE differing classes innately, same deal with differing jobs, the Empire has a LOT of class systems in there, hierarchies, if you will (first, we've got Galactic Emperor, then we've got the various advisors that he has, then the Imperial High Command, then the Grand Moffs, then the Moffs, then we get the various rank and file). The closest you can get to an actual classless society was the Galactic Republic post-Ruusan Reformation, again either that or Star Federation.
And as far as Stateless, again, need I really point out that the Empire was based on law, and more importantly, tries to ENFORCE law and order? That does not sound anything like a stateless society. If anything, the Rebels were that (and for the record, a real stateless society would have people slaughtering each other just for fun, like the Jacobins did, precisely BECAUSE, with no state, why should they adhere to laws when they are meaningless without enforcement?).
As far as whether the Rebels were communist, ignoring Saw Gerrera (who reminds me of a certain infamous figure back on our home planet), I can tell you what one of the Rebels said, in his own words, and what one of his own associates said when making those Rebel propaganda films he called "Star Wars". You should know him by the name of George Lucas.
"I started to work on Star Wars rather than continue on Apocalypse Now. I had worked on Apocalypse Now for about four years and I had very strong feelings about it. I wanted to do it, but could not get it off the ground... A lot of my interest in Apocalypse Now was carried over into Star Wars. I figured I couldn't make that film because it was about the Vietnam War, so I would essentially deal with some of the same interesting concepts that I was going to use and convert them into space fantasy, so you'd have essentially a large technological empire going after a small group of freedom fighters or human beings... a small independent country like North Vietnam threatened by a neighbor or provincial rebellion, instigated by gangsters aided by empire. [...] The empire is like America ten years from now, after Nixonian gangsters assassinated the Emperor and were elevated to power in a rigged election; created civil disorder by instigating race riots aiding rebel groups and allowing the crime rate to rise to the point where a 'total control' police state was welcomed by the people. Then the people were exploited with high taxes, utility and transport costs"
Here's what his own associate had to say on the matter as well:
“Originally George Lucas was going to direct (‘Apocalypse Now’), so it was a project that George and John (Milius) developed for Zoetrope. That was back in 1969. Then when Warner Brothers cancelled the funding for Zoetrope, the project was abandoned for a while. After the success of ‘American Graffiti’ in 1973, George wanted to revive it, but it was still too hot a topic, the war was still on, and nobody wanted to finance something like that. So George considered his options: What did he really want to say in ‘Apocalypse Now?’ The message boiled down to the ability of a small group of people to defeat a gigantic power simply by the force of their convictions. And he decided, All right, if it’s politically too hot as a contemporary subject, I’ll put the essence of the story in outer space and make it happen in a galaxy long ago and far away. The rebel group were the North Vietnamese, and the Empire was the United States. And if you have ‘the force,’ no matter how small you are, you can defeat the overwhelmingly big power. ‘Star Wars’ is George’s transubstantiated version of ‘Apocalypse Now.’”
And the guys they were referring to were in fact a bunch of communists. You can even find confirmation here.
In any case, want to know what Marx was thinking when he created Communism? Look no further than these letters he wrote to Engels, it's clear it's no love of neighbor, but rather an excuse to make a gorn remake of the Reign of Terror:
“There is only one way of shortening, simplifying, and concentrating the bloodthirsty death-throes of the old society and the bloody birth pangs of the new--revolutionary terror. . . . [...] Once we are at the helm, we shall be obliged to reenact the year 1793. [...] We are pitiless and we ask no pity from you. When our time comes, we shall not conceal terrorism with hypocritical phrases. . . The vengeance of the people will break forth with such ferocity that not even the year 1793 enables us to envisage it. . . .”
In other words, the kind of world Marx wanted was something akin to what Jerome Valeska desired here and its results here. And the French Revolution, not to mention the Reign of Terror, was a disaster, as you can read here
Sorry for bringing this up, guys, but I get angry when people claim the Empire is Communist or that they should actually advocate they get an alliance, knowing full well what monsters the latter were like (not to mention Lucas made it far too clear who the Rebels were supposed to be analogues to, and it wasn't the West, I'll tell you that much, and such is the reason why I'm even an Empire supporter at this point.).
-3
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 03 '17
Communists aren't monsters m8. Communists care about the proletariat, capitalists do not.
5
u/otness_e Apr 03 '17
Tell that to the Black Book of Communism, which had them slaughtering well over a hundred million people, or Holodomor, the very much deliberate forced starvations of several Ukrainians under Lenin, or Stalin's purges (something which even Khrushchev had to admit was true, and he's no saint either), or Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution which eclipsed Hitler AND Stalin's death tolls combined, or how Che Guevara turned Cuba from one of the biggest economies in Central America into a Soviet nightmare complete with Gulag-style death camps. Or how about the Vietcong frequently cutting kids hands off just to force their parents to skip voting, or even the Khmer Rouge's slaughter of Cambodia after taking it over. I can't believe you would say they aren't monsters with a straight face. And what's more, those quotes from Marx more than made clear that when he came up with the idea, he specifically wanted mass death to occur, even stating they are obliged to not only re-enact Robespierre's Reign of Terror, but actually make it even bloodier than that time. Sartre even advocated for something similar when he claimed that the French Revolutionaries, if anything, didn't kill ENOUGH people during the Reign of Terror. And I noticed the Communists frequently KILLED their own proletariat they claimed to care about, from Lenin all the way to Castro. I'm not kidding, read this. In fact, read this entire Facebook page here.
My view of Communism won't change, and Lucas admitting the Rebels were communists is precisely the reason I joined the Empire.
0
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 03 '17
using the black book of communism as a source
Kk m8, Imma not even bother. That book is widely known as absolute bullshit, even by non communists.
2
0
Apr 04 '17 edited Apr 04 '17
[deleted]
2
u/otness_e Apr 04 '17
No, they were Communist states. They explicitly referred to themselves as Communists, NOT Capitalists (the USSR's full name was the Union for Soviet Socialist Republics). Even Lenin's dealing with business owners is solely under the philosophy that he'll sell them the rope with which they will hang themselves with.
Also, no Capitalism did NOT kill more people than Socialism. That's a falsehood. Socialism, heck, Communism as well, have had their crimes presented bare and the statistics reported. Socialism is reported to have a hundred million dead in the 20th century ALONE. And what those guys claimed are lies. Remember, Chomsky is the same guy who claimed that Americans were responsible for the murders in Cambodia despite the evidence being irrefutable that the Khmer Rouge, the Communists, did the murders.
1
Apr 04 '17
[deleted]
1
u/otness_e Apr 04 '17
I'm not calling them Communist because I don't want them to be Capitalist, I'm calling them Communist because that's EXACTLY what their ideologies were, what they themselves stated themselves to be. And in case you haven't noticed, Marx himself specifically intended for Communism to be a repeat of the French Revolution's Reign of Terror from 1793, only being even MORE bloody. I've even got the quotes if you want them:
“There is only one way of shortening, simplifying, and concentrating the bloodthirsty death-throes of the old society and the bloody birth pangs of the new--revolutionary terror. . . . [...] Once we are at the helm, we shall be obliged to reenact the year 1793. [...] We are pitiless and we ask no pity from you. When our time comes, we shall not conceal terrorism with hypocritical phrases. . . The vengeance of the people will break forth with such ferocity that not even the year 1793 enables us to envisage it. . . .”
Yeah, sure, Marx is OBVIOUSLY a humanitarian of good will <sarc />
And in case you haven't noticed, ALL Communist countries did that to their own even when it seemed to be against their ideas. Even Lenin did that to his own people (remember Holodomor?). Heck, even Bill Ayers, himself an unrepentant Communist as he himself made VERY clear in his own words, specifically intended to murder over 25 million people in America, as Larry Grathwold exposed.
And it didn't just end with Stalin. Even his successors partook in the butchery, not to mention people like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro. And an FYI, use common sense, why would they be trying to fight against us Americans and take us down if they were Capitalists like ourselves and make clear that they want us dead BECAUSE of our practicing Capitalism?
→ More replies (0)2
Apr 03 '17
[deleted]
2
Apr 03 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
2
1
Apr 03 '17
[deleted]
0
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 03 '17
Yeah, and how is it fair to you that you struggle while your boss lives comfortably?
3
Apr 03 '17
[deleted]
2
1
u/atheistman69 Never forget, never forgive Apr 03 '17
Not everyone is as lucky as you. You're basically saying "fuck you, got mine" and then play the victim.
2
89
u/[deleted] Apr 02 '17
[deleted]