r/worldnewsvideo • u/PlenitudeOpulence Plenty š©ŗš§¬š • Sep 17 '21
Feel-Good š Dog takes his human out for a walk
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u/Life_Technician_3076 Feb 26 '22
This is awesome š
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
It's more confusing for the dog and not good for the relationship more than anything. Dog's are pack animals. There needs to be a dominant one in the relationship. This is how you get people who say "I can't believe it. He's never bitten anyone before."
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Mar 04 '22
Thatās actually been recently disproved. The hierarchical relationship amongst canines is much more complex than previously thought by the scientific community. Like Alpha Beta shit? Itās just that. Bullshit.
Starting point for if you wanna read more on it: https://news.asu.edu/20210805-discoveries-myth-alpha-dog
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u/CicerosMouth Mar 04 '22
"when dogs live with dogs, they have very strong social hierarchies."
That is what your own source says. Literally the source you posted says that dogs have a strong hierarchy, from alpha to beta.
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Mar 04 '22
Hey moron, the dog in the video, the one you commented on about it being confusing and then followed up with nonsense? THAT DOG LIVES WITH A HUMAN. Fucking Christ if you canāt read just say so.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
THAT DOG LIVES WITH A HUMAN.
How does that change the fact that it's still going to approach social interaction from the viewpoint of a dog?
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u/Mattpw8 Mar 04 '22
Like bruh dogs live with cheetas as suport animals in zoos there no alpha there man huskys arnt alpha to the cats in the house like wut man how tf is a dog gonna b alpha to a literal 200lb ape shits sooooo brain dead
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
The dog also doesn't live within the cats parameters or take direction from them though. Right?
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u/Rpanich Mar 04 '22
Animals take social cues from other animals. My dog will walk up to me and tap me when he wants me to pet him, and Iāll oblige. Am I ātaking directionsā from the āalphaā now and confusing me dog?
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
No. You are responding to an indication. A leash however, is a tool designed to impose dominance.
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u/Shamblex Mar 04 '22
IKR its social group regardless of the species is still going to be the dog's 'pack'. Same behavioural instincts and social structures apply.
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Mar 04 '22
Did yāall legit NOT READ the link? Itās a starting point for you to go get off your idiot asses and google more info. Fucking Christ no wonder people think the Earth is flat in 2022. Nah man, yaāll continue to get your points of view from a tv host. Sounds about right.
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u/Mattpw8 Mar 04 '22
Lol bruh for ruckin real ppl just skim and look for what they wanna see and say see I told u so
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u/Mattpw8 Mar 04 '22
Bruh na brain dead take who domesticated who .I don't make a deal with the puppy that I breed lmfao.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
Unless you can explain it yourself, you're just choosing to believe whichever idea you find to be more palatable. Or presumably cuter in this case.
Your own article acknowledges the hierarchal relationship in the first two sentences.
Among animal behavior researchers, the concept of social hierarchy is more or less taken for granted. Most social species have one, though the degree of extremity can vary greatly.
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Mar 04 '22
Oh so youāre science illiterate. Gotcha. Bai!
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
How am I the illiterate one? As I've already pointed out, your own article begins by acknowledging the hierarchal relationship that social animals have. You missed it in your own article. And you missed it when I pointed it out the first time. How does that not make you the illiterate one?
And I think that we should acknowledge the additional irony of the fact that when presented with an idea that opposed your own, you immediately tried to show dominance over me with petty insults and name calling.
Have a great day.
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u/eightyeight99 Mar 04 '22
Hey i think by putting the emphasis on "Most social species have one" and apparently ignoring the "though the degree of extremity can vary greatly" part, you might be misinterpreting those two sentences.
Idk why its important to you to believe canines need a specific heirarchical structure but it's not necessarily true. There's a lot of info out there if this article doesn't do it for ya.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22 edited Mar 04 '22
The article says it's more nuanced than initially thought. It's not important to me anymore than the idea of a round earth is important to me. It just exists and I'm acknowledging it. We've all seen people with undisciplined dogs. I believe that type of behavior is a result of things like what we see in the video.
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u/Pinols Mar 04 '22
Science doesn't really care about beliefs luckily
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
Science isn't some omnipotent being you can invoke to proclaim fact from fiction. It involves being able to explain how you came to your conclusions in a deductive manner, the same way I'm doing right now.
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u/docwyoming Mar 04 '22
You actually cited the article, whereas they simply tossed insults and insisted you were not only wrong but illiterate.
To me that says it all.
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u/sjarrel Mar 04 '22
Did you read the article? It suggests that the relationship between dog and human is such that the human is inherently the dominant one, as the human is in charge of providing for all the dog's needs. The researcher calls it superdominance. Given that, there is no need to assert dominance and training should focus on positive reinforcement instead.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
Meaning the idea of a social hierarchy isn't "bullshit" as Op claimed.
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u/sjarrel Mar 04 '22
The alpha dog idea is specifically called out to be outdated in the article... It's in the title...
The hierarchical relationship amongst canines is much more complex than previously thought by the scientific community.
This is what op claimed, not that social hierarchy is bullshit. Just the alpha idea:
Like Alpha Beta shit? Itās just that. Bullshit.
See?
And your original claim:
Dog's are pack animals. There needs to be a dominant one in the relationship.
Is specifically said to be based on outdated ideas, hence why the article was linked to you in the first place, I imagine.
The idea that humans need to actively assert dominance over their dogs comes from outdated observations of unrelated adult wolves living in captivity.
I hope that clears it up.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
The concept of alpha & beta is the same thing as the concept of social hierarchy. Calling it more complex than previously thought doesn't mean they're saying it doesn't exist. The article says that by controlling their resources we are already playing the dominant role. The problem is that unless you use the resources to modify the dogs behavior, you are not setting the boundaries needed to have an obedient dog. If you allow it to do whatever it wants, it will see that behavior as acceptable.
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u/sjarrel Mar 04 '22
The concept of alpha & beta is the same thing as the concept of social hierarchy.
No it's not. It's an example of a social hierarchy, one the article suggests it's based on outdated ideas...
The article says that by controlling their resources we are already playing the dominant role.
I know, I explained that to you earlier.
The problem is that unless you use the resources to modify the dogs behavior, you are not setting the boundaries needed to have an obedient dog.
The point was that there is no need to establish dominance, as you originally claimed. You can train by positive reinforcement.
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u/MilkEggsSndFlour Mar 04 '22
To start with, I never used the term beta or alpha. That is how Op interpreted my comment and I indulged to make things easier. Op classified the idea of playing the dominant role as the concept of beta & alpha. It doesn't really matter what you call it. It exists and if you don't get ahead of it you will have a disobedient dog.
And being in charge of the resources doesn't automatically put you in the dominant role. Which is why there are people who's dogs demand things from them, rather than indicate their needs. If you give dogs treats when they misbehave; Despite being in control of the resources you will not be the dominant one in the relationship, nor will you be in control of the dog. So it stands to reason that how you implement the resources plays a greater role in the social hierarchy. Meaning that asserting your dominance, however you choose to do so, is still necessary. No one's going to buy the cow if you're giving away the milk.
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u/CicerosMouth Mar 04 '22
But OP wasn't talking about the relationship between dogs and humans. Ignore everything that the article says about humans. OP was just talking the "hierarchical relationship between dogs," saying that basically any hierarchy was "bullshit."
Conversely, the article clearly states as fact that amongst dogs there is a strong established hierarchy, where dominant dogs eat first, submissive dogs consistently put faces down, submissive dogs like the face of dominant dogs, etc.
The article did not mince words. Among dogs, there is a clear hierarchy. As such, OP was clearly wrong to say that a strong hierarchy between dogs is bullshit.
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u/sjarrel Mar 04 '22
The comment was very clearly in reaction to the comment it, you know, replied to.
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Mar 04 '22
They never mentioned social hierarchy. They said that the Alpha and Beta concept is bullshit. Itās a form of social hierarchy.
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u/Voipix786 Mar 04 '22
Dominance in ethology is simply the tendency for certain individuals in a social group to have at least partially consistent preferential access to limited resources, such as shelter, food, and sexual partners (McFarland, 1987). Individuals with consistent access to constrained resources are known as ādominantā: Those that consistently have less access to resources are āsubordinate.ā
You really should properly read the entire paper and actually look for what you are trying to prove
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Mar 04 '22
Science bad. Cesar Milan right. Fuck outta here.
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Mar 04 '22 edited Mar 04 '22
As someone said below, that has been disproved decades ago.
Dogs are not pack animals in the way, say, wolves are. Their hierarchy is not linear and is mostly situational.
So, say there's a bone and two dogs want it. If they had a pack hierarchy the alpha would get it and that would be the end of it.
But dogs don't have alpha, so in this case one of them would be the one who really, really wants it and "puts its foot down", and the others would go "whoa drama queen, get your bone, jesus".
In another situation, another dog would acquire whatever it's desiring in that moment if it's the most motivated. Fighting for resources is a very, very rare occurrence with dogs, as they've evolved to live with humans, where the pressure to compete is pretty much cancelled.
I'm over-simplifying obviously, but the point is that hierarchy in dogs is not static and not linear.
Explained in a more scientific way here but if you look up "dog hierarchy" and stick to articles from reputable sources (like, not blogs of dogs lovers etc) you'll find plenty on the topic.
That of the "alpha dog" is a nasty misconception that serious dog behaviourists have been trying to fight since the 70s, as it spread to dog training to this day.
Charlatans like Cesar Millan contributed to the spread of misinformation, sadly.
Pasting a bit from the link above to clarify. In particular, it's to note that dogs "know" we're not dogs, we're humans! So they don't expect their complex system of signalling to be shared with other species:
"Hierarchy in dogs is neither static nor linear, because the motivation to obtain and retain a specific resource, together with previous learning, defines the relationship between two individuals for each encounter. Stability is maintained by deference and not by agonistic behaviors. Only in those relationships in which one individual consistently defers to another across resources and interactions might a linear hierarchical relationship between the individuals be described. Although this terminology applies to the intraspecific communication and signaling between members of a species (eg, dog-dog), it does not ātranslateā to communication between species (eg, dogs-people)".
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u/hobesmart Mar 04 '22
Wolf packs aren't alpha/beta hierarchies either. They're familial
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Mar 04 '22
lpha/beta hierarchies either. They're familial
Yeh I know well, I didn't want to also get into that:)
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u/Falangee69 Mar 04 '22
I think that dog just likes chewing on the leash
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u/Cpt_Nell48 Mar 04 '22
Yeah she also handed it to him. Itās a lab, they will hold anything you hand them. Still funny/cute video though
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u/PapaRacoon Mar 04 '22
Itās a dog breed thatās bred to want something in its mouth! Not sure whatās surprising about this, you should always want to fulfil the specific breed behaviours for each dog. Sight hounds, space to run, scent hounds lots of stuff to smell and track (blended chicken smoothie is good), retrievers give them something to retrieve / carry, herding breed needs something to herd etc
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u/gotbass210 Mar 04 '22
Could you share more about scent hounds and blended chicken smoothies? What do you do with it? Hide it somewhere for them to find it?
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u/PapaRacoon Mar 04 '22
Use a squeezy bottle and spray a path / track for your dog to follow with some chicken bits as the end as reward, but you need to start them at the start of the path and have them follow it, rather than go straight to the end. You can also break the ground where you spray the āsmoothieā and I think eventually the dog starts to understand its to follow the most recent path to find its reward.
For the smoothie anything the dog likes will work. Also should train the dog to indicate itās found the treats at the end and only eat when you say itās ok, donāt want to encourage eating stuff it finds in bushes n stuff lol :)
You also get working dog trails that so decent stuff I think, ofyou fancy something competitive or structured.
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u/ImmodestPolitician Mar 04 '22
Even though I'm a very busy doggo, I make sure my human gets her 7000 steps to keep her happy and fit.
It's my favorite part of the day.
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u/kunalbathija Mar 04 '22
That's why I love reddit, it brings all the good content from every social media platform and r/MakesMeSmile
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u/qe2eqe Mar 04 '22
I used to have a dog that wouldn't fetch, ever. But you could make her "get yer ball" "go! (point a direction)" and "drop it".... So she wouldn't fetch but I could make her make me fetch.
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