r/theIrishleft • u/No_Celery8061 • 2d ago
Irish Left Thoughts on American Lefts?
Hello,
I am an Asian American that grew up on the West Coast. In the last few years, I would say I have become more progressive in my views. I read on another Reddit feed that Ireland tends lean more left.
I am curious on how Irish people view the left in America. What are some similarities and differences?
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u/FishnetsOmg 2d ago
Ireland does not particularly lean more left btw. Compared to America, absolutely. Compared to other European countries? Not so much. Irish people seem keen on the centre-right policies that have dominated the country for 100 years at this point
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u/Sstoop 2d ago
i mean it certainly depends. a lot of irish people have a more sympathetic view of socialism than americans would. the red scare shite isn’t really here as much. the general attitude is they think socialism is a fine idea on paper but wouldn’t work in practice which is way better than the standard american attitude. ireland also has a way better average view on foreign policy than most other european countries.
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u/pointblankmos 2d ago
We definitely had a red scare, it was just from a Catholic perspective and didn't involve McCarthyist prosecutions like in the US.
The Irish public were vastly against the Republicans during the Spanish civil war because they were seen as anti-catholic. Same with the Bolsheviks being seen as godless atheists.
The majority of people here are politically inactive. That is to say, happily neoliberal. Conditions aren't yet bad enough for the vast majority of people for communism to be in vogue.
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u/AwareExplanation785 15h ago edited 14h ago
In the last general election alone, 37.4% of the electorate voted for leftist or left leaning parties.
In every single election, at least a third of the electorate vote for leftist parties and almost a quarter of these encompass SF voters. More than one in three people would like a leftist government, but FF/FFG fascistically dismiss the will of one in four of the electorate, at every single election, by refusing to entertain a coalition with SF.
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u/Scinos2k 2d ago
It's a tricky one.
From an Irish, or maybe even a European perspective, the American Left is deeply fractured. You folks seem to spend more time arguing with each other over who has it worse, who's disrespected more, and who gets screwed over more by the Government (hint, it's actually Native Americans).
You've managed to split the left in to the Left, Liberals, and Leftists and there's probably more.
In terms of your Government, your Dems that are left are about the same as our centre-right parties like Fianna Gael or Fianna Fail. AOC and Sanders will continue to be buried and kept out of truly influential power.
Ireland has a small (and I mean bloody small), albeit insanely vocal right wing voter group, and they'd really line up more with your Republican party views.
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u/springsomnia 2d ago
The American left is a hopeless case and many American leftists are much more conservative than other leftists.
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u/justadubliner 1d ago
I'm watching the infighting amongst MAGA today about Musk promoting HB1 immigration. It's amusing that Americans can never see the obvious problem that makes skilled immigration currently essential for American IT corporations. The right blames poor education in public schools when it's clearly that the US doesn't invest in subsidising third level education. If people require a mortgage to get through to a Masters in IT they either don't get those stem degrees in the first place or aim for for more lucrative careers leaving the IT sector to import the mid level staff they need at lower salaries.
Not one right winger has copped that investing in people is the answer because that would be 'socialism'.
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u/National_Frosting332 2d ago
I feel like it is very much an aesthetic for a lot of the popular voices that represent them culturally. But it is nothing more than that. When someone like Hasan Piker is the largest online supported voice for the left in America, there is something seriously wrong.
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u/schmeoin 2d ago
Hasan is a good lad in fairness. He's a powerhouse too since he draws in more of an audience than some of the main stream news programs over there. Does a good job of funneling in new blood into the left. He has a good political instincts too for the most part.
That whole alternative media space is only starting to take root tbh. The left is pretty much dead in America after decades of red scare propaganda and due to the fact that being a communist is explicitly illegal. The right is always going to have it easier since it has deeper pockets and its far easier to attach its nihilistic, solipsistic message to any random fuckwit who wants to make some money fast. The Joe Rogans of the world are always going to find it easier to express a perspective that essentially doesnt have a standpoint on anything too. Rightwing politics is essentially opportunistic sociopathy rolled into a political view, so theres always going to be another charlatan. Meanwhile, leftists are constantly fighting uphill against ridiculous double standards, lack of material support, censorship etc etc etc.
Only for folks like Hasan itd be fairly bleak tbh. You'd have little genocidal con artists like Destiny out there spoon feeding conservative liberalism to kids and convincing them its leftism. Or you'd have freaks like Asmongold influencing kids to be little rightwing incels without challenge.
Theres a growing leftist online culture out there too though. The internet has a collection of folks from all over the world, which suits the internationalist nature of our movement I suppose. Yugopnik did a good video about the online leftist pipeline. In terms of yanks there are folks like the Majority Report and Democracy Now etc for the boomers. Theres Chapo Trap House too who have been going for a while. I'm very partial to folks like Central_Committee on twitch too who is passion incarnate when it comes to the left in general and who is super knowledgeable.
When it comes down to it though, the left shouldn't be concerned with aesthetics. We're about acheiving material change and empowering the working class or we are nothing. Aesthetics are for libs to fret over. My eye is more drawn to all the grassroots movements out there getting work done. DSA is doing some good work in building a network out there. And theres the mighty Shawn Fain who is leading the charge on the Union front. Keep an eye out for his 2028 push. Its a long road ahead but theres some people out there putting in the legwork.
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u/Tradtrade 1d ago
I reckon piker seems alright. There’s very few American content creators I’d say that about
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u/Busy_Category7977 2d ago
The US left is a basket case of failure, dysfunction and hysteria. This is by design, as every single attempt to build a functioning class movement gets infiltrated and disrupted by state actors in the intelligence sector. Used to be "anti-communism" and COINTELPRO, but it still goes on.
As soon as occupy wall street gained traction as a threatening class-based movement, their meeting organisers found their meetings suddenly getting derailed by newcomers wasting time agitating on identity issues. The next decade saw those issues absolutely obliterate all chance of solidarity or progress, because they are fundamentally unsolvable.
Every election they fall into lockstep behind the democratic candidates, and every single time they get burned, tossed out in the cold and sidelined in favour of centrist neoliberalism.
Any non-US leftist movement must distance itself resolutely from the divisive, damaging ideology and rhetoric espoused by US "progressives". They are possibly the most counter-productive people for their cause on the entire planet.
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u/pointblankmos 2d ago
The US left has been so thoroughly infiltrated and disassembled by feds that it might as well no exist.
The democratic "left" are almost as evil as the Republicans, essentially holding the poor and the gays hostage for votes "better vote for us or the Republicans will kill you!" and then doing nothing to actually help people.
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u/FirstnameNumbers1312 1d ago
I think Americans in general have some weird ideas about politics. The Irish people are pretty decidedly conservative for the most part, but because American conservatives are such blood thirsty lunatics Conservatism looks progressive.
So the American left stands up for the rule of law, respectability, institutions, free trade etc, but these are all Conservative values!! Biden literally ran on "no fundamental change"!! The Harris campaign exemplifies just how conservative the modern Democrats actually are - terrified of appealing to any working class or progressive base, exclusively appealing to the right, broad assumptions about how politics works that only make sense from a conservative perspective (e.g. thinking people voted for them because they're moderate on abortion not because they wanted to defend abortion rights).
Biden, Harris, Hillary etc would be perfectly at home in our conservative parties, and honestly most would be on the right wing of those parties. Even AOC etc would be able to fit in on the left of Fianna Fail.
But we are mostly conservative here. More than anything Irish people do not want to rock the boat. Tweaks and adjustments to deal with problems that arise but no fundamental changes. We may appear radical and left because we stand up for Palestine but there again I honestly just think the rest of the world is vaguely insane. Perhaps it's the legacy of the church making it so politics is always secondary to morality, perhaps it is just the fact we were also colonised...idk.
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u/christismurph 2d ago
Depends what you mean by the American left. A lot of what you call the left (Biden, Harris for example) would very much be centre-right in Europe. If you mean the likes of AOC and Sanders, then they come across as crazy people to Americans rambling about an unattainable dream, but all they really do is ask for things that we already have in Europe.
Basically what I'm getting at is there is no real American left at a national level in the US. De La Cruz looks like she's the main voice right now, but nowhere near a credible threat.