Thoughts on the USSR?

[u/The_Grizzly-]

Context: I’ve seen Kyle mention the USSR a few times. I don’t remember exactly when, but I know once he did regarding the USSR nationalizing the automobile industry. Considering his progressive views, I want to know your thoughts on the USSR.

91 votes, Aug 14 '24

4 Very Positive

5 Good

3 Neutral

25 Some Good Some Bad

23 Bad

31 Very Negative

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[u/JonWood007]

Very negative. The left needs a way forward that isn't that.

[u/north_canadian_ice → u/JonWood007]

Well said.

The USSR was tyranny. Stalin committed a genocide against Ukrainian people in the Holodomor.

[u/The_Grizzly- → u/north_canadian_ice]

The Holodmor is not classified as a Genocide, but there are claims of Genocide during the mass population transfers.

[u/OneOnOne6211]

I don't really believe in nationalization very much, I mostly believe in socialization. As in, worker owned co-ops where the workers themselves together own the company and vote on stuff like their leader.

Nationalization should be reserved for everything that is something that just needs to be basic and universal like healthcare.

Beyond that, I don't think the USSR was particularly socialist or communist in practice. I mean, a basic tenet of both communism and socialism is that the workers own the means of production. While theoretically you can do this via nationalization, the fact is that this only works if the state is democratic. And the USSR, while it had voting, was not actually democratic. It was a one-party, dictatorial state.

And then for communism specifically we're talking about a stateless, moneyless, classless society. The USSR had a huge state, it used money and while it didn't have classes on paper it did most certainly in practice.

I think ultimately the USSR was almost a complete betrayal of socialist/communist values. And it's one that did huge damage to the socialist/communist cause into the present day, where its dictatorial and totalitarian state is STILL the first thing that comes to many people's minds when they hear those terms.

So while I'm not going to say every single thing about it is bad, and in fact the dysfunction of its economy is overstated, I still think it was pretty bad.

No authoritarianism for me. I'd like democracy in the state and the workplace.

[u/ArchonMacaron]

Bad, outside of a few bright spots like the NEP and Gorbachev.

Most of the accomplishments people laud the USSR for (public housing, state funded healthcare & tuition, robust scientific research and development) don't require a leninist takeover and concomitant strong man head of state to implement.

[u/BigRed727272]

In theory, communism is the opposite of authoritarianism. In practice, communism requires authoritarianism.

[u/Resident-Garlic9303]

The workers did not own the means of production, the Communist party owned the trade unions not the people working the jobs, there was not a democracy, they did not have freedom of speech or movement either. Overall they were not a Communist or even Socialist country. They were just a different stripe of Authoritarianism. There is a reason why they are called red fascists

[u/Narcan9]

I married a woman with parents from Ukraine, and Russia. Upon visiting first hand I thought, "you guys are just like Americans". White Moms and Dads just raising typical families with 2 or 3 children. Usually the US oppresses people with brown skin. They had parks, swimming pools, roller coasters, water slides (slightly more painful ones). They didn't have McDonalds, but they had restaurants that were poorly similar. It all made the Cold War I grew up in, seem insane. I had some years as a child that I went to bed, afraid of nuclear war.

The classless status meant anyone (men) could potentially go to University and rise in the ranks of society. A smart peasant kid could end up in high level positions in research or industry. Everyone had a home and received a pension, even if they were modest. Her parents drove the same old Lada for 20 years.

From my POV, the USSR was quite successful. They were a country of poor peasants, devastated by multiple wars. Yet in just a few decades they became an industrial superpower, with 99% literacy, who beat the US in the space race, and rivaled them in nuclear technology.