Reutlinger Watch, my thoughts on number 13

[u/HagenReb]

I recently saw a post here about the Reutlinger Watch and how it appetently lights up - but only at Beecher's Hope and only in the evening. I have had some thoughts of the 13 replacing 8 on the watch. Just some small ideas.

13 on a watch is said to symbolize a new beginning. As well as endings and transitions between different periods of time and experiences. I do think this links to the ranch life pretty well.

Another thing, 8 and 13 are adjacent to one another in Fibonacci's philosophy. I do not know if this is even relevant, just a thought.

If we really go down the rabbit hole, the number 13 is in astrology linked to 13 moon cycles of a year. I have a vauge memory of a post about there actually being realistic moon cycles in the game. Any connection?

If we go down into the other rabbit hole I came across, the number 13 can also be associated with feminity as there are 13 moon cycles in a year. Now I also vaugly remember a post about John and Abbigal's unknown daughter - that there are no clear mention of when she was born or how long she lived. So number 13 means feminity (maybe pregnency) as well as transitions, new beginnings and death. The life on the ranch is a new beginning and a transition between the two games. A theory is that Abbigal is pregnent sometime during the epilogue, as she has been seen knitting a pink blanket and telling John he is soon to find out, who it is for. The watch only lights up at the ranch, it seems. So I think there may be a connection - or an indication - that the watch has something to do with the daughter.

Another angle... “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” Hebrews‬ 13:8‬ KJV‬‬. I know, really a longshot. But it could mean that no matter how hard John works, and no matter what he does, he will never truly. He will always be an outlaw. No matter the ranch and his more classic family life (the watch lights up at faimily dinner, right?) he cannot run from his past. A theory is that that part is the entire point of the game(s). That he will always be an outlaw, chassed by the law. In book of Job 13:8 is a section describing justice. As in justice for John?

And now I got stuck in between the rabbit holes. I guess I'm just rambling a bit here. Maybe it makes sense to someone, and maybe it is all nonsense. Please let me know what you all think.

[u/HagenReb]

I kept digging. As I said I got stuck in a rabbit hole.

I looked at the numbers 8 and 13 in the game. If I am able to count correctly, there are 8 graves of dead gang members: Jenny - Davey - Sean - Kieran - Lenny - Hosea - Susan - Arthur. During the events of rdr2 however, there are 12, presumably 13, dead gang members. In addition to the 8 just mentioned by graves there are also: Mac - Strauss - Molly - Micah. I did not include Micah's boys from chapter 6. The presumably dead is Karen - Tilly mentions in her letter to John in the epilogue that she doesn't know what happened to Karen. But I have read theories that Karen was not likely to surrive her alcohol intake no matter what. Karen's death would be the 13th. I do include Jenny here as she has a grave, even though her actual death is just before the game starts. There is also a grave for Eagle Flies, but I didn't include him as a gang member.

So 8 graves but 13 deaths - where the 13th is unconformed.

[u/xxsamchristie → u/HagenReb]

This is probably not going to make sense without details, but I've been in my own rabbit hole about planets and mythology related to this and one (planet/person) being presumably dead but probably not & showing up again later is a recurring theme I've noticed. Idk how deep you wanna go into that, but you'd probably find more connections there.

Your Bible verse you mentioned earlier is probably right too. They reference stuff from the Bible a lot.

[u/HagenReb → u/xxsamchristie]

Thank you for responding. When speaking of planets... I made a comment on another post about a planetarian connection to 8 and 13. Another redditor wrote that 13 Earth years equal 8 Venus years. Besides, Venus is commonly known as the morning star as it is visible in the morning, and that may be connected to the phentagram at Butchers Creek, which is a star that is only visible in the morning.

My own thoughts were that 8 and 13 are next to each other in Fibonacci's sequence. A common factor in the sequence is the golden ratio described by the constant phi with value 1.618. Now, I may have gone too far with this, but in 1618 Keplers third law of planetary motion was described. So maybe there is a planetary connection to the watch, or maybe some of it are just coincidences.

As you can see in this thread it was also a suggestion that something may happen on the 21st day of the star cycle.

Maybe it is possible to find Karen (dead or alive) while playing as John. Even if she is out there somewhere, I do think there is more to this mystery than just Karen - or maybe it is two mysteries that no one can tell apart yet.

Whatever it all means I do find it exciting to think about. And again, thank you for responding.

[u/HagenReb → u/HagenReb]

What if Karen is princess IKZ? I don't even know if I'm joking or not.

[u/MajesticCaptain8052]

If we really go down the rabbit hole, the number 13 is in astrology linked to 13 moon cycles of a year. I have a vauge memory of a post about there actually being realistic moon cycles in the game. Any connection?

Unfortunately the moon goes through the same cycle, going through all of its phases in one night. The stars have a cycle of 20 days I think so maybe the fibonacci thing is interesting if you consider day 21 = 1 = new beginning

[u/HagenReb → u/MajesticCaptain8052]

Very intresting. So it seems the moon cycle is irrelevant then. But the star cycle (is that even the term?) is a very good point. I wonder if there is any sort of occurence on the 21st day of a cycle. A shooting star maybe? Or a meteor shower. For now at least I do consider day 21 as a new beginning.

[u/MajesticCaptain8052 → u/HagenReb]

So it seems the moon cycle is irrelevant then

Maybe, i mean the way the moon behaves itself is weird enough to investigate

I wonder if there is any sort of occurence on the 21st day of a cycle. A shooting star maybe? Or a meteor shower.

Would be awesome! Yet to see it myself, although there is a meteor shower already visible in an arrs up near the meteor house, maybe it could be a trigger.

Theres also something i found weird, not sure if youll be able to see it as it got deleted by mods but theres a leap year built into the in game calendar behind the scenes, so the calendar really is very sophisticated and to me it has to be for a reason.

[u/HagenReb → u/MajesticCaptain8052]

It's a 13 hour cycle. The number 13 again. From 6 am to 7 pm in the game. Great video. Thanks for the link! You are right, it is a weird cycle. It seems irregular. I would assume it would be eassier to just code a repeated cycle. That leads me to think this might be intentional. Or lazy coding of course.

So the moon cycle may be relevant after all. The cycle is the same every night. But is it also the same on the 21st day? I mean, does it in any way follow the star cycle?

I have not seen that meteor shower myself, and I don't remember reading about it. But that has to be røconnected somehow. At least in my mind it is.

I am typically the kind of person to get a whole bunch of ideas without them leading anywhere. So this is quite exiting to be honest. Thank you for this.

About the leap year... the post itself has been removed, but some of the comments are still visible. It's hard to get the full idea just from the comments. But I do agree that there must be a reason for the leap year in the game. I looked up a leap year on Google... a leap year itself was invented by Julius Caesar, however it was implimented into our current calender system by... Pope Gregory XIII. Another 13. I don't know if I am going way to far in all of this. But I keep seeing 13s.

[u/HagenReb → u/HagenReb]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercalation_(timekeeping)

In certain calander systems a 13th month is added to make up for the lack of the extra day in a leap year.

A 13th month. In regards to make up for the lack of leap year. There has to be a connection. But what?

[u/MajesticCaptain8052 → u/HagenReb]

The cycle is the same every night. But is it also the same on the 21st day? I mean, does it in any way follow the star cycle?

As far as I can tell the moon has a set 24h cycle, it doesn't alter its course between days. The star cycle repeats so that on the 21st day, the same star will be in the same place at the same time as it was on the 1st day. The stars also "loop" around the earth 3 times in that cycle (i guess you could say the 20 day cycle is actually 3 laps) sorry i dont know how to explain this better.

About the leap year... the post itself has been removed, but some of the comments are still visible.

Heres the video that was taken down. Its not very intuitive but if i can explain, Rampage Trainer is exposing the ingame calendar that is constantly running behind the scenes. It's a 12month calendar, with January represented as 0 (Feb 1 , Mar 2 etc)

You can see that it's not possible to scroll to the 29th of February on most years, but in 1904 it is possible to scroll to 29th Feb, and every 4 years after that. Why there is a leap year system in place is beyond me, but it's interesting that they thought to add it.

[u/TH3HAT3TANK]

8 Earth years = 13 years for Venus. Venus’s orbit in relation to Earths orbit form a pentagram every 8 Earth years. The Pentagram of Venus

Venus is the Morning Star, called this because it can be seen in the eastern sky shining brightly at dawn, then disappearing as the Sun rises…kinda like the pentagram at Butchers Creek.