r/reddeadmysteries • u/MajesticCaptain8052 • Jul 18 '23
Resource Star Cycle Map
Why this might be useful:
- For greater immersion (could maybe be used well in immersive RP servers on RedM)
- Some of us still speculate whether there are mysteries connected to the night sky in this game
- Learn a little about the constellations along the way
I´m trying to write this in a way that someone who has no idea of astronomy (such as myself!) can use the tools in game with this information to identify constellations. For those of you that are more familiar a lot of this will be obsolete, and possibly counter-intuitive!
What you will need:
- Binoculars (available from beginning of game)
- Compass ( ↓ + Y / ∆ ), or good sense of where North is on the map (minimap works too)
- The Blessings of the Weather Gods (good luck)
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We should get familiar with two objects in the night sky for this to work, Pleiades (asterism in Taurus) and Polaris (the North Star), .
Pleiades was important to various tribes of Native American stargazers, to the Lakota they had names such as Thayamnipha (Animals head) and Wichincala Sakowin (Seven Sisters), to the O´odham when they (Xatca) cross the sky is the proper time for storytelling. the Pleiades are probably one of the most easily identifiable clusters of stars in the RDR night sky, and we can use Polaris to approximate their location.
Polaris was also an important star to the Lakota, and its importance is represented in game in the naming of Lake Owanjila (Wichahpi Owanzila - The Star that does not move)
In game though this isn´t quite true, the star moves quite a bit, although still being the star that moves the least in the night sky, circling an invisible center* over 20 days before returning to its original position *(from our perspective, this is likely just representing the earths rotation)
As the north star, it is directly north at all times. You can easily locate it by using the compass in your minimap and facing your character directly north. The Moon also passes under Polaris at around midnight each night.
We can use Polaris and its surrounding stars as a measuring tool for where we are in the cycle. It is beneficial to imagine them as a clock moving counter-clockwise. Similar to a conventional clock we can imagine 2 hand of varying length, with the smaller being the hour hand. We will then use the position of the "hour-hand" to find our position in the cycle.
Instead of hours its easier to imagine this clock like a compass. Then, judging which direction the hour-hand is facing will allow us to predict our place in the cycle.
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------------------------------------------N-----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------NW----------NE--------------------------------------
----------------------------W--------------------------E---------------------------------
----------------------------------SW----------SE--------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------S----------------------------------------------
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* in the above links, the "North" photos are actually the zenith (looking directly above the player). For an idea of what is going on directly north see here
** there are certain nights ( 9, 19 ) that are hard to categorize as they could be interpreted as belonging to one of two directions, something to be mindful of (check the above clock for reference)
*** The screenshots were taken at 11pm each night, so your night sky might look a little different, but the same constellations should be there.
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We can cross reference this "clocks" position with Pleiades to give us a quick, general idea of where we are.
this video can help illustrate this
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There are other possible methods for tracking the stars positions, or finding the north star. One of the corners of the Obelisk faces directly north, and we can use its indents as a measuring tool of the distance between the Moon at roughly 12am and Polaris
We could also use the reticles in our binoculars to measure the distance between Polaris and the Moon anywhere on the map at the same time (roughly 12am as the moon passes Polaris)
Using the binoculars (no zoom), and using the Moon´s bright-half as a level, we can get a rough idea of where we are in the cycle. The lower Polaris is (closer to the center of our binoculars), the further away Pleiades are from us.
The problem with these two methods is that they are even more reliant on having optimal weather at a semi-specific time (11:45 - 00:15) whilst the moon passes Polaris. From my experience its pretty unlikely that you will get the clear sky you are looking for, and so I suggest using the first method.
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Hopefully this is useful to some players or mystery hunters. My aim in the future is to try and do something similar, but with Native American constellations as opposed to the traditional Western ones. I think if there is still mysteries left to explore with regards the dial on Mt Shann, or Burial / Ritual site alignments it seems more sensible to refer to Native American mythology and astrology.
note to mods: there are external links to a closed subreddit i created for this purpose, as I had to create 20+ pages. Hopefully this is within the guidelines set out in Rule 4. Thanks!
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u/regularjoeseph Jul 18 '23
Once again legendary work, if any secret is found in the stars this is the groundwork to get there. Thanks for taking the time and putting in this amazing contribution to the community Captain M
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u/ChuyMJ12 Jul 18 '23
Amazing work! Is there any chance that the rock glyph at Mt. Shann has something to do with constellations, either Western or Native American constellations? (I don’t know if that’s been investigated, sorry if it has).
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 18 '23
I wish I had an answer for you, your guess is as good as anyone's! I definitely think that constellations are an avenue that could be explored in relation to this glyph, or rather significant stars of constellations, the glyph looks too uniform to be any particular constellation to me and is definitely more of a measurement or location tool. Not sure if parallax measurement is actually possible but it did remind me of that a little bit.
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u/ChuyMJ12 Jul 23 '23
I always thought the glyph was somehow related to the stars. I’ve seen the Strange Man video about it (which is based on the work of a fan from this subreddit) but I never really understood why one should put the glyph at Twin Rocks, it seems kind of arbitrary to me. My guess is that one could identify some stars from the glyph, maybe watching from some place towards north -a place yet unknown, but that might be the very top of Mt. Shann.
I don’t know. When I finish my current playthrough I’m going to dedicate more time to this, and I will definitely use this info!
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u/Kang8Drifter Jul 18 '23
Absolutely incredible work! Invaluable information. Many thanks!
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 18 '23
No worries, hope this helps in someway your theory with the moon pattern 🌛
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u/big-boi-Roy Jul 19 '23
Kinda new to the red dead mysteries thing. So what is the point of this?
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u/haikusbot Jul 19 '23
Kinda new to the red
Dead mysteries thing. So what
Is the point of this?
- big-boi-Roy
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 19 '23
There might not be one lol. Just speculating. But there is a lot left unsolved in the game (dial on Mt shann, Mt shann glyphs) that its worth mapping the stars incase there's answers there
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u/piangero Jul 27 '23
I have absolutely NO clue or knowledge about starts and all that, but this is great work and I appreciate so much that you're going the extra mile for these things. It's so interesting to see the work you put in.
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 28 '23
I'm right there with you lol, have little to no knowledge about most of this stuff, but I've became passionate about learning about a lot of different things because of the games (RDR & GTA) and their mysteries. It has been both the greatest use and the biggest waste of time!
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u/piangero Jul 29 '23
hahaha i know that feeling all too well in life. but hey, great work anyway! maybe i'll learn a bit too by reading lol
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u/CreativeAnything7302 Jul 20 '23
Looking at my real life star chart. It seems your in summer. I thought it would be spring.
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u/CreativeAnything7302 Jul 20 '23
How this rdr2 world works is pretty bizarre. Like a snow globe within a snow globe.
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u/CreativeAnything7302 Jul 20 '23
I mean in our real world, The fixed point in the northern sky is called the north celestial pole, and is located only about a degree away from the famous North Star (which makes tiny circles around it). Ninety degrees from the pole is the celestial equator, a great circle that runs from directly east to directly west, passing high above our southern horizon. Mintaka, the rightmost star in Orion's Belt, happens to lie almost exactly on the celestial equator, so you can think of the celestial equator as tracing the path of this star. Another important great circle is the meridian, which runs from directly north to directly south, passing straight overhead. As the sphere turns, the meridian remains fixed in the sky. The point straight overhead is called zenith
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 21 '23 edited Jul 21 '23
I think it's important to just throw logic out the window in this game though when it comes to everything in the sky lol, the moon going through each phase in a night (also it's path travelling north across the sky which isn't a thing in the northern hemisphere)
Orion still travels across the celestial equator though , the constellations are fairly accurate with regards their position in the sky, its just the time of year they would be visible is completely askew. It's like our in game earth is spinning much faster,or that there are like mini-years happening every couple of days lol
I'm hoping someone with more brains can map out a diagram of what it would take in order for this kind of activity to be going on with the moon phases & constellations
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u/Kang8Drifter Jul 22 '23
I think this is all important information. Yes, the in game night sky goes through an entire real life year every 6-7 days. The southern sky is the best place to track this movement as it is opposite the visible pole star to the north, giving the southern sky the greatest variant of movement night to night. But in real life the southern sky would also be subject to light pollution by the moon and masked by the Milky Way (which also has the incorrect position in game). It’s as though Rockstar has purposely cleared the southern sky making it easier to track the stars. They created a very accurate, if not very fast, map of the stars but not the moon or Milky Way. Clearly this is no accident. So again, your work here is invaluable! Thanks, again!
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 26 '23
They created a very accurate, if not very fast, map of the stars but not the moon or Milky Way. Clearly this is no accident.
Thats what I can't get past. It seems like it would have been just as easy for them to correctly configure the sky (maybe not the stars but the moon in the northern sky for example). It could just be a tongue in cheek way of showing that the world they've created is a simulation, but I'd love to think there's more than that. I'll have to look into the southern sky a bit more for sure.
"Your whole life, sir, you have followed the wrong star "- blind man cassidy
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u/MajesticCaptain8052 Jul 21 '23
Yeah not only that but it seems we are constantly repeating the summer solstice. Gets dark around 8 each night and bright at 4 / 5.
I guess the Endless Summer (achievement for epilogue completion) was a hint at that
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u/doofy102 Jul 18 '23
Truly good work