r/onguardforthee • u/Miserable-Lizard Edmonton • 5d ago
Judge backs City of Hamilton tent ban in parks, ruling against encampment residents seeking $445K | CBC News
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/encampment-ruling-1.741818465
u/nolooneygoons 5d ago
So where are they supposed to go?
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u/xWOBBx 5d ago
"doable on ODSP". Indwells rent is still about 90% of what ODSP recipients get.
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u/Adventurous-Laugh855 5d ago
Please do us all a favor and show us a choice of safe, decent apartments in the city that an individual on ODSP (making approx $1300/month at maximum) or on OW (making approx $700/month) can afford on their own. And by "afford" I mean be able to afford rent, utilities, extra bills (internet, phone) and food. On $1300/month, MAXIMUM. And I'm not talking about a room, I'm talking about an apartment. If it's so easy then show us all how to do it. 🤷♀️
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago
People like this either have no idea how little people get on these programs, don't know how much rent is because they're insulated from it, or are arguing in bad faith because it's not socially acceptable to say that they simply don't care if these people live or die.
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u/imomystery 5d ago
Fun fact, if you take a room as a rental while on odsp, your payments go from ~1,300 to whatever the shared rent is.
By choosing a room, they likely loose food for the month.
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u/imomystery 4d ago
A person in a tent? Ineligible for ODSP. Are you actually under the impression they could be receiving it?
You need your doctor involved, a SIN, your lease agreement and authorization for MCSS to scan your banking and credit details.
And no, if your room cost is $400/month your ODSP deposit becomes $400/month. You do not receive the possible max of $1300
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u/Adventurous-Laugh855 5d ago
So what you're saying is that disabled people can't afford homes in this climate and deserve less than adequate living situations. 🙄🤦♀️
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u/Adventurous-Laugh855 5d ago
"Refuses to use a shelter" - sweetheart, I work in a shelter, and I have a little piece of news for you: they're all fucking full. 🙄🤦♀️😘
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u/horsetuna 5d ago
Legit question though: if they aren't already on ow or ODSP, what do they do until it kicks in?
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago
Die from exposure. That's what these people want to happen. It's fucking disgusting.
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u/horsetuna 5d ago
Thanks although that doesnt answer my question.
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago
The answer is that there isn't an answer, and this person hasn't actually thought through how this would work because they don't actually care.
I understand you're trying to "Gotcha" them but it won't work simply because they aren't arguing with any understanding of the realities of the situation. They'll just deflect or give an ignorant answer they've convinced themselves is correct.
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u/horsetuna 5d ago
I wasnt trying to gotcha him. I was legit curious. But I do get your point and I've pointed this out a lot to the 'just get a job' people who think its that easy.
I mean maybe there WAS a solution we dont know about that isnt just letting them die that we havent heard of right?
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u/Future_Crow 5d ago
They answered your question. Ontario government wants unhoused 200K+ people to freeze to death & quickly.
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u/faded-witch 5d ago edited 5d ago
Ok that means all homeless people are criminals and should be in jail. Gotcha.
Why don’t you just say you don’t care and either them dying or being arrested is fine with you?
God, the heartlessness of people.
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u/Adventurous-Laugh855 5d ago
I dare you to try living for six months on OW without shelter, and let us know how easy it was, how easy it was to find safe, adequate shelter, and how well it worked out for you. 😊
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u/Future_Crow 5d ago
$343 is OW personal amount without shelter. It is obnoxious to believe that anyone can survive on this.
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago
This city also does have rentals available which are doable on OW or ODSP.
Do you have any fucking idea how wrong this is? You can't actually believe this right? You can't actually be this detached from reality can you?
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago
Ok so, a couple things here.
You'd need to get approved by the owner to rent a room like this which is next to impossible if you're currently homeless, and even harder if it's with ODSP money.
Renting a room like this affords you literally no rights as a tenant in Ontario and the owner can kick you out at any time for any reason at all, meaning your housing isn't even remotely secure.
You're left with only $1,000 AT BEST for food, clothing, transportation, toiletries, a phone plan, etc and good luck with that since if they decide to jack up your rent they can at any time.
There are very very few rooms available at the price you mentioned, anywhere, so there simply aren't enough available for all the people who would need them.
Getting approved for ODSP requires you to get referrals from doctors, usually your family doctor. How many homeless people do you think have family doctors they see regularly enough to make this work? Getting approved for ODSP is notoriously difficult, and the system is deliberately setup to make it as difficult as possible to access. I would know, I helped my girlfriend through the process and she was ultimately denied. Not because she isn't disabled enough, she is, but because of the amount of money that I make, which is fucking ridiculous. The income cutoff for "spouses" is like $20 an hour full time, and then the government goes "You make $2,600 after tax per month, that's enough to cover 2 adults right? I haven't checked clearly but I'm just going to assume it is. You get nothing, bye! Call us if you break up so we can come up with some other bullshit reason to deny you!"
You're genuinely ignorant of how hard this would be to actually accomplish, the barriers you'd have to get past, and the reality that we simply don't have enough available rentals at "affordable" rates to accommodate enough people. If it were so fucking easy people would be doing that instead, but it isn't so they can't.
CHRIST
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u/imomystery 5d ago
All this, and a room rental is classed differently than an apartment space, so they only receive the room rental amount each month. $500/mo to share a room? That’s all you receive each month.
It’s impossible to live ONLY off odsp in today’s day, and most people on ODSP can’t work. The ones who can experience 80% avg unemployment bc employers don’t touch disabled people.
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u/Future_Crow 5d ago
You are preaching to a moron & I feel you. I’m helping someone with their ODSP application, the person is literally dying, cannot work, and Ontario took 5 month to send us just the initial package. I assume we’ll be denied the 1st time. Meanwhile they get $642 from OW - basic + special diet (since no rent means no shelter amount). Can a single family-less person fighting cancer survive on $640 ?
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u/Future_Crow 5d ago
I have a family member fighting cancer, can barely walk or stay awake from chemo. They have no money for rent. They depleted all savings in the first 5 month of not running own business and dying. OW & ODSP do not give enough even for food, never-mind rent. It took my loved-one 3 month to just get approved for OW, not yet ODSP.
Do you think a single homeless person battling cancer should go to jail or a psych hospital? Which is a better destination?
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u/imomystery 5d ago
That’s the outcome your line of ideas and actions lead to. Socialized crown corporation housing and universal benefits are two really quick and tested solutions to this problem. What party is advocating for that right now?
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u/Future_Crow 5d ago
Sounds like you are smoking own supply because noone can survive on OW and ODSP in Ontario. Not doable. Not.
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u/Miserable-Lizard Edmonton 5d ago
Criminalizing poverty
"The public is generally sympathetic to the homeless, but it tires of seeing its public spaces appropriated by lawless, unsanitary encampments," he wrote. "There has to be a balance, and the democratic process is best equipped to achieve that balance."
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u/covertpetersen 5d ago edited 5d ago
"There has to be a balance, and the democratic process is best equipped to achieve that balance."
"Can you guys stop sleeping outside for a few years somehow while you wait for an election? Also the voters won't care and we're not going to help you then either. Honestly we're hoping you just die in the meantime, that way we don't have to deal with you anymore because you're making all the people who get to live indoors uncomfortable. K, thx, fuck you!"
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u/nabby101 5d ago
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
-Anatole France, 1894
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u/mrdeworde 5d ago
One would think the balance would simply be giving these people housing and support, but if you try doing that people get weirdly salty, almost like the salty people don't actually want the homeless to exist at all other than as corpses in a ditch.
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u/SandboxOnRails 5d ago
"We want to live" vs. "How about you all die."
I'm sure we can find a balanced compromise to this.
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u/N3wAfrikanN0body 4d ago
The compromise is to, ignore, ridicule, marginalize and abolish the "how about you all die" camp; for they were never productive to actual solutions.
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u/taylerca 5d ago
Jail is the new one bedroom apartment.
Will only get worse when PP shows up.