r/leangains • u/MrSquat Cheesecake • Jan 04 '15
Basic food choices guide for beginners to dieting
EDIT Some people who'se reading apprehension is possibly lacking have made me put in this addition: I'm not recommending any specific macronutrient intake levels here. Do not read this as such, I'm merely talking about what you should and shouldn't eat to fill in those macronutrients to best maximize diet adherence and well-being during a cut. EDIT OVER
It's the time of the season where the sub gets flooded by newbies asking all the wrong questions. So, I'm going to answer one of the most important questions newbies to leangains and dieting in general should be asking: So, what foods should I eat?
Covering this in six sections: Carbs, Fats, protein Don'ts, fillers, and Desserts.
Carbs Generally speaking you want foods whose volume at the right calories match your satiety / eating desires. Try these foods: Rice, beans, legumes, bulgur/whole wheat, potatoes (sweet and regular), corn (canned or fresh), polenta/grits and fruit except bananas/dates (only if you get enough protein elsewhere).
If you find you have difficulties meeting your caloric goals with these, try pastas, couscous, breads, dates/bananas (only if you get enough protein elsewhere).
If you find you are still hungry eating these choices, tend towards the lower processed end of the spectrum, whole wheat (actually the whole thing, not flour), whole barley, whole corn and potatoes.
Fats Non-processed and lean sources are preferred for the higher satiety. These are lean meats (chicken, beef, trimmed meats), and nuts. Chose these after you chose your protein foods, as those will most likely have some fats.
Protein
Easiest category, and talked about to death. Read the leangains.com website for more info on protein sources. Good ones include meats, beans/legumes, and dairy.
Don'ts
The foods here are treats, to be eating very sparingly (think Martin's "checkpoint" system if you read his blog). Christmas, easter, your birthday.
Avoid "golden ratio" foods as much as possible. What is the golden ratio? It's any food with roughly equal calories from fats and carbs. Generally when label reading this means half the grams of fat compared to carbs. Golden ratio foods encourage over-eating and when you restrict them you will feel like crap with cravings and whatnot afterwards.
Some examples of golden ratio foods: all pastries, cheesecakes, many icecreams, fried potatoes, potatoes with gravy, french fries, milkshakes, any carbohydrate with cream.
Added oils/butter. These have absolutely no nutritional value, add no satiety (compared to any whole food) and serve no useful function. Limit as much as possible. When you fry stuff, measure the oil and count them in your calories even if some is still left on the pan. Very carefully measure these when used, especially on bread (easy to hit golden ratio with butter on bread). Best to skip alltogether in most cases.
Added sugar: Except for desserts (next section), adding sugar to anything does nothing for satiety, no nutritional benefit. Avoid as much as possible. Artificial sweeteners make good substitutes for sugar. I recommend Sukrin and liquid sucralose. Use the sucralose when you don't want the crunch, sukrin doesn't dissolve easily.
EDIT: FILLERS
Forgot this section originally. After making all other food choices, vegetables and low-caloric fruits make up the rest of the diet to fill up. This is important for satiety as well. Good choices are high fiber, high nutrients which is basically all vegetables. Lower caloric choices means you can eat more of it. Eat those until you can't eat anymore. Good choices are spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, cucumbers, and zucchini.
Desserts
Desserts are a vital part of a successful diet. Some % of your diet on workout days should absolutely be used for desserts. Very important. Helps you not feel deprived and takes the glory a little bit out of these foods. Easier to not eat them on rest days when you have them 3x / week.
A good dessert will have less than 7g of fat / 100g. This avoids the golden ratio and increases the satiety a little bit compared to higher fat desserts. It's possible to find icecream, puddings, pastries and sugary things in general that fit this. Go for something you really really like, but the least damaging variety. Very carefully measure desserts and always by weight not volume.
A final note
If you are a noob, do not read the comments on this post. It'll be full of peoples personal opinion about this and that food, filled with misconceptions and retardism. Most of the time, people comment to argue with op (me) not to add value to the discussion. Easier to just read this post and ignore the comments.
I definitely didn't count everything that's possible and good to eat when dieting, and this was not really the intent. I'm just providing some guidelines and stuff to try out for people who are maybe used to eating fried meat with fried potatoes every day and now want to get some leangains going.
That said, I welcome the discussion / criticism no matter how misguided/well intended.
Good luck folks!
**EDIT #million: I put in a "protein" section even though I think this is largely done to death by now.
3
u/cforres Bulking May 28 '15
Been doing LG awhile now. I like that you addressed desserts.. weird psychological benefit of purposely eating desserts on workout days. I think it speaks not burning yourself out and being unrealistic with what you can / can't eat. I wish someone would have told me this before I started.
Definitely helpful information that isn't completely reiterated over 1000 times elsewhere.
2
u/MrSquat Cheesecake May 29 '15
I'm glad you found it helpful. The basics are under-rated on the internet ;)
12
u/tontyboy Jan 04 '15
sums this forum up.
A valiant attempt made at laying out some simple rules for newbies to learn.
Correctly predicts a shit fest of contradictory arguments in the comments.
I'm more and more convinced people simply can't read and digest information.
How can someone read the post which is completely aimed at uninformed newcomers who have very bad "diets" and respond by arguing that BUTTER contains lots of important micronutrients?
This is exactly the type of retarded "name your source" argument that NEWBIES do not need. Fuck me, not even most advanced people need to know that shit. Newbies need to know "stop covering your cheese in butter" and this post outlined it.
If you want to have a discussion on advanced micronutrient techniques, then why not post your own fucking thread you utter stupid cunts?
7
u/twulferts Jan 04 '15
"If you are a noob, do not read the comments on this post. It'll be full of peoples personal opinion about this and that food, filled with misconceptions and retardism." - OP
So what exactly are your credentials that you can automatically disregard every comment that disagrees with what you've written?
-1
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15
I'm not disregarding them, but I recommend that beginners who need help with food choices do so.
As for my credentials, they include formal training in nutrition and I work professionally with athletes where I handle accessory training and make nutrition recommendations. I am a physical therapist with further 2 years education in sports medicine.
I dare say I'm easily one of the most knowledgeable and experienced people on this subreddit.
Take it or leave it. If you like other foods and have great success with them, I'm not going to argue with it.
I wrote this for people who have grown up eating whatever random stuff and now want to get lean but have no clue about food. If that's not you, I don't see why you need to argue with me.
-4
u/twulferts Jan 04 '15
The problem is that you're posting information that is pretty well known to be outdated, and you're not bothering to post any sources to verify anything. On top of that, you seem to know that what you're posting is BS because you make sure to let new dieters know that any response to your post is going to contradict what you wrote.
Your theory on fat is simply to not eat any? That is dieting 101 from 1980, and has been regarded as incorrect for quite some time now. You have no mention of where people can get quality protein for their diet except for listing a few low-fat options in your 'Fats' section.
You're simply not posting helpful dietary information in general, and what you wrote is not helpful in a gaining sense whatsoever.
4
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 04 '15
The problem is that you're posting information that is pretty well known to be outdated
Feel free to update my views, although I think you are misunderstanding my views somewhat.
Your theory on fat is simply to not eat any?
NO NO NO NO. You are reading something that I didn't write. I said avoid ADDED FATS, refined oils and butter. This is not the same as all fat, by a long shot. See my reply to ebrau.
You have no mention of where people can get quality protein for their diet except for listing a few low-fat options in your 'Fats' section.
Most people know where they get their proteins from. I have to limit this to something. Leangains.com talks to death about protein sources.
listing a few low-fat options in your 'Fats' section.
Nuts are not low-fat options. Eating lean meats is more efficient because animal storage fats (the visible fat) is nutritionally useless.
I'm not recommending any macronutrient breakdown, this has been done to death, there are calculators in the sidebar that people can use. I'm talking about what foods beginners should focus on using to get those macros in.
I recommend some, but not all, of the best choices for each category to get someone started on their journey.
Edited for better manners
-2
u/twulferts Jan 04 '15
Now you've resorted to petty name-calling, so I'll just leave it at that. Your post will get buried soon enough. Enjoy defending your misinformation for the next couple of days.
6
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15
You are absolutely right. Minor frustration when I realized you actually did not understand my post at all. I've edited it to show slightly better manners. Thanks.
2
u/Kerastene Jan 04 '15
You added cheesecake under "don'ts" – you are obviously posting in the wrong forum. Cheesecake is LG gospel!
2
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15
I realize this. Read the sentence before where I write:
The foods here are treats, to be eating very sparingly (think Martin's "checkpoint" system if you read his blog). Christmas, easter, your birthday.
I hate to quote the gospel back to you, but Martin himself wrote in the bonus bestowed upon us while blessed with the book of Cheesecake Eve of Doom I-II that his entire cheesecake consumption during a year when averaged was "only" 32g of cheesecake per day.
I'm with Martin on that one, when it comes to gourmet foods I like to limit frequency, not amounts.
2
3
u/60sTrackStar Jan 04 '15
I don't agree with a lot of the food choices you listed here. Also dessert is listed as a food group? Wtf? Golden ratio foods? No health benefits from oils in cooking? There is so much misinformation here that I hope that any noob that reads this takes it with grain of salt.
-1
Jan 04 '15
I agree, there's a lot to criticise in this article (which reads like a cosmopolitan article, by the way). Among the worst is discouraging beginners from reading the comments, clearly this guy is the king and top authority of intermediate fasting.
I don't agree with relating everything to satiation, either. I find that the problem with a short eating window is that you feel too full when you do eat and quite hungry before your eating window starts. No mention of coffee or other hunger-supressing tools, although these are much more likely to be influencial on the problem of satiety than eating whole grain foods and avoiding golden ratio foods (and thanks for explaining to the beginner audience what that is).
A+ for disregarding fats and oils completely, because it's not like any of us take daily fish oil supplements (omega-3) or anything...
And as a final criticism, he claims desserts are a vital part of a cut. This is amongst the most uninformed things I have read, as a lot of people do not eat dessert at at all. Suggesting that they are a vital part of a cut after implying he's the authority on cutting with leangains can only have negative impacts on a beginner.
-1
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15
I agree, there's a lot to criticise in this article
Not an article
Among the worst is discouraging beginners from reading the comments
Reading over the comments so far, none contribute to the topic at all. My post basically amounts to an opinion piece and most of the comments are just giving their own opinion which does nothing to further the discussion but will confuse those whom my post is intended for.
I don't agree with relating everything to satiation, either.
Was not written to have everyone agree with it. Nothing at all can be written that everybody agrees on. Do you agree with that? Food choices however when restricting calories should be made with an eye on satiety.
I find that the problem with a short eating window is that you feel too full when you do eat and quite hungry before your eating window starts.
This is because your food choices are poor.
No mention of coffee or other hunger-supressing tools, although these are much more likely to be influencial on the problem of satiety than eating whole grain foods and avoiding golden ratio foods (and thanks for explaining to the beginner audience what that is).
My post was about food choices, not ways to cope with the fast.
A+ for disregarding fats and oils completely, because it's not like any of us take daily fish oil supplements (omega-3) or anything...
Again, my post was about food choices, not supplements. Do you cook with fish oil perhaps? Are fish oils 5% of your calories?
And as a final criticism, he claims desserts are a vital part of a cut.
Those people can just keep on not eating desserts. There's no pleasing everyone and most people like treats.
after implying he's the authority on cutting with leangains
Not implying this at all, at least in this post. I'm recommending food choices to beginners. Take it or leave it. Move on.
1
u/eltonjock Jan 07 '15
Hang in there, /u/MrSquat. This post was appreciated by at least a few people...
-2
2
u/GoonBarron Jan 05 '15
Everyone seems to be trainwrecking you. I am a n00b, I have been reading into leangains over the past few days as I work in an office 9-5, 5 days a week and have seen my figure deteriorate. As I love the beach and surfing, this sucks and I have had aspirations to change my diet and body.
To me, the post summarises the simple shit I need to know, it doesn't steer away from the main points and confuse me. The most annoying thing (for a n00b like me) about r/fitness or r/leangains are people's posts that are like "you can't eat X but you can eat certain type of X Y Z because of yuda yuda yuda".
For me this is a starting point, and I will delve deeper into nutrition as I get into a routine.
If anyone has suggestions for good (leangain) workout guides, meal plans, fasting guidelines, please link me as I am about to write a fitness plan & hopefully stick to it!
Cheers
2
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 05 '15
It's not really trainwrecking. It's people with an opinion disagreeing with something that contradicts their opinion. Usually, people are just poorly informed as you see in this thread.
Dieting comes with a tight caloric budget, and spending it wisely is the difference between success and failure for us regular folks who aren't competitive athletes.
As for a meal plan, go to any macro calculator for leangains or the 31m ama thingies to get some caloric start points and macros. Then plug in the foods with the do's and don'ts from this post until they roughly fit your macros. Boom, you have a meal plan.
1
u/higx Jan 05 '15
whats up with the banana advice? I'll often top off post workout carbs with a banana or two. Bananas aren't my prime carb source but I eat 5-6 a week.
-1
u/ebrau36 Jan 04 '15
"Added oils/butter. These have absolutely no nutritional value, add no satiety (compared to any whole food) and serve no useful function"
This is flat out incorrect. Butter has a ton of valuable micronutrients and a shit ton of healthy fats (as do many unrefined oils). Fats WILL increase satiety--this has been proven.
Finally, even disregarding pesky things like science, satiety and vitamins from an IIFYM perspective how do you justify cutting out entire food groups for 'noobs'?
4
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 04 '15
Fats WILL increase satiety--this has been proven.
You are right about this. However, oils compared to the same amount of fat from an actual food are dwarfed in satiety. Almonds vs almond oil, you can't even compare the satiety between these.
Added refined fats compared to any whole food will lose.
healthy fats
Get your healthy fats from whole foods, and not oils or butter. Want "healthy dairy fats"? Eat yogurt, not butter. Want healthy MCT's? Eat coconut, not coconut oil. See where I'm going with this?
how do you justify cutting out entire food groups for 'noobs'?
I don't consider added fats and butter to be "food groups". Which group are you referring to?
-1
u/ebrau36 Jan 04 '15
However, oils compared to the same amount of fat from an actual food are dwarfed in satiety. Almonds vs almond oil, you can't even compare the satiety between these.
Not debating this, none the less his statement is factually incorrect. I don't see why one would simply eliminate butter altogether. It is a healthy and an easy way to add fat where needed. Same for olive oil.
Get your healthy fats from whole foods, and not oils or butter
Again, not saying you shouldn't or can't. If you read my original comment my point is simply that one of his prime suggestions is factually incorrect. This should probably give people who are thinking about following his advice pause.
I don't consider added fats and butter to be "food groups". Which group are you referring to?
Let's not get all caught up in semantics, shall we? Call them categories, etc.
3
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 05 '15
Let's review some butter facts.
A 1000 Calorie serving of butter contains: 5% daily requirement of phosphorus, 10% b12, decent A and decent D, 22% vit E, 3% calcium, 3% selenium. Do these numbers seem high to you? They don't? Well, that's the micronutrients you find in butter. Less than impressive, for 140g worth of food.
Compare this with a better choice, 1000 Calories of white rice. I rate rice as an okey starting point, but for some it won't be satiating enough. It covers the whole requirement of b1, folate, iron, manganese, and selenium. THE WHOLE REQUIREMENT of these. It covers between 50-99% of b5 and b3 and close to 30% of phosphorus, magnesium, copper, and b6.
It's also 770g of food, 5,5x as much as the butter. It beats butter out on micronutrients, and satiety. It even has more protein than an equal calorie portion of butter.
Exactly WHAT food does butter compare FAVORABLY against? Give anyone reading this a good reason to choose butter over anything on my list.
0
u/ebrau36 Jan 05 '15
Can we compare fats to, erm, idk, fats please? My point is simply that:
- butter and olive oil are perfect good ways to round out fat macros and there is no reason to avoid them specifically
- your original statement that they are devoid of satiety and nutritional value is simply incorrect
2
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 05 '15
your original statement that they are devoid of satiety and nutritional value is simply incorrect
I'm happy to see your argument for the satiety and nutritional value of butter and refined oils, including olive oil. Must be compared to some kind of food item.
butter and olive oil are perfect good ways to round out fat macros and there is no reason to avoid them specifically
They are worse choices than getting the same amount of fat from better sources. Such as olives, nuts and dairy. Do you disagree? Give your reasons and not assertions.
Can we compare fats to, erm, idk, fats please? My point is simply that:
Alright. Let's compare butter to the nutritional value of yogurt, calorie for calorie. Yogurt gets the whole daily requirement of b12, b2, b5, calcium, and phosphorus. It get's between 50-99% daily requirements of vit a, potassium, selenium, sodium and zinc with all other nutrients between 1 and 49%.
See where I'm going? Compare these to the values I listed for butter. Yogurt also gets you more protein and is 1640g of food compared to butters 140g. It's not even playing in the same league as yogurt.
Make a case for choosing butter over any other food. Please. Don't just list bullets with irrelevant non-factual statements without even arguing for it. Give some of the benefits of choosing butter over any food that contains fats.
P.s. for an added bonus, let's compare olives to olive oil shall we? Let's go for cold-pressed extra virgin vs olives. Green olives gives over 100% requirement for vitamin E and sodium. Between 50-99% of vitamin a, but around 5-10% of most everything else. Olive oil gives you vitamin e and basically nothing else.
It's not even a competition. There is no way ever that it's a better choice for dieters to use olive oil instead of olives. It's completely non-sensical. Oils have no place when dieting.
Where do you get your information from? Blogs? Let's see some real arguments from you here, and not just random statements from some blogs.
0
u/tontyboy Jan 04 '15
Butter has a ton of valuable micronutrients
without a doubt the stupidest most pointless thing I've ever read on here. I don't care if it is true or not, it is a waste of a sentence.
-1
u/ebrau36 Jan 04 '15 edited Jan 04 '15
I don't care if it is true or not, it is a waste of a sentence.
I would call that a waste of a sentence.
IIFYM may be a great heuristic for weight loss (assuming your taking umbrage at my reference to micronutrients), but it's ridiculous to act like foods can't have beneficial effects outside of (or in addition to) their effects on body composition.
It is not useless to know about these things, especially in the long run. Do people just learning about leangains need to know advanced nutrition? No, definitely not. Point remains, asserting that butter and oils have no nutritional value and don't help with satiety is patently, scientifically incorrect.
-1
u/tontyboy Jan 05 '15
Name one strength athlete, body builder, world class sports star who gives two fucks about butter.
-2
u/ebrau36 Jan 05 '15 edited Jan 05 '15
Hmm, I don't know, do the Lakers work for you?
Take a quick glance at this article
The nutrition program, designed by Dr. Cate Shanahan and implemented by Lakers strength and conditioning coach “Grass-fed” Tim DiFrancesco, places a heavy emphasis on good fats because, according to the two, it’s the most efficient source of energy for the body. From an interview with DiFrancesco last July: “Contrary to what people might think, we actually want our players to eat as much grass fed butter and bacon as we can get into them.”
You can also look into some of the work/advice of John Welbourne who was a guard/tackle for the Eagles.
There's more, try a thing called google.
-2
u/tontyboy Jan 05 '15
Ahahahahahaha
For what it's worth your own attempt at quoting a study was to do with energy, not micronutrients. Way to lose a shit argument with yourself pal
-2
u/ebrau36 Jan 05 '15
Two items
I don't care if it is true or not, it is a waste of a sentence.
You've already stated pretty clearly you don't care about facts
Name one strength athlete, body builder, world class sports star who gives two fucks about butter
Did this. Also, not interested in 'winning' an argument with an angry internet moron. Just trying to sort out the facts.
For what it's worth your own attempt at quoting a study was to do with energy, not micronutrients
First of all it's not a 'study' it's a real world application of butter in a dietary protocol used by a world class athletic organization (as you so politely requested). Second of all, butter does contain valuable micronutrients (despite the false assertions of OP). This information is publicly available and you should be capable of looking it up yourself.
2
u/MrSquat Cheesecake Jan 06 '15
First of all it's not a 'study' it's a real world application of butter in a dietary protocol used by a world class athletic organization (as you so politely requested).
I know tonty requested examples of athletes who give a shit about butter and this is why you posted this. I would like to mention that for pro-athletes with a 3x higher energy requirement than a regular leangains dieter the food choices do not look the same. At all.
That being said, I've listed basically every micronutrient found in butter in this thread and made comparisons against other high-fat foods in regards to those same micronutrients. I did this using publicly available information that I was capable of looking up myself.
The comparison does not suit you however, as butter contains no micronutrient that can not be better gotten elsewhere with more satiety, more protein, and more health benefits.
The only reason to ever pick butter and oils over other food choices, is when you are eating so much food that it's very hard to increase it. That is the point where very energy dense foods do become prime choices. How many leangains dieters (aka losing weight) are eating at the absolute max their system can handle of other foods?
Please ebrau, learn about context. You obviously read a lot of low-carb blogs and have formed your opinion based on that. I would like you to reflect on how limited this knowledge base really is: it's all second hand knowledge. Nothing from primary sources, nothing from legitimate text books.
If eating butter is so "factually known" to be a valuable food, why don't more nutritional professors write papers to praise it? Oh, that's right. Only the low-carb gurus have access to that depth of knowledge and experience and possess the true open-mindedness needed to see the truth.
Give me a break.
So far your entire argument has been "I say so" while I've listed nutritional data and give reasons for choices. How about you at least step up your argument game?
-1
-7
Jan 04 '15
extra tip; don't eat too much chicken, you won't like it after a while if you eat to much
3
u/200gorillas Mar 20 '15
This might be one of the best threads made in this subreddit and unfortunately no one will get to see it....
What /u/MrSquat expressed in his original post are things I had to figure out the hard way. Hard way being failing in my diet resolution over and over again and self-correcting.