r/lastweektonight • u/Walter_Bishop_PhD Bugler • Apr 01 '24
Episode Discussion [Last Week Tonight with John Oliver] S11E06 - March 31, 2023 - Episode Discussion Thread
Official Clips
- To be added
Frequently Asked Questions
Why can't I view the YouTube links/why do the YouTube links appear to be removed?
- They are sadly region restricted in many countries - you can see which countries are blocked using this website.
Why isn't LWT on HBO GO/HBO NOW/HBO MAX right after it airs?
- HBO says that it takes a few hours for Last Week Tonight episodes to reach HBO GO or Now due to delays caused by the show's editing process. This appears to be happening less, nowadays.
Is there a way to suggest a topic for the show?
- They don't take suggestions for show topics.
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u/VinBarrKRO Apr 01 '24
Holy shit, this episode!
So I worked for DoorDash about five years back, single worst gig I have ever worked. Dasher Support would outright lie to Dashers in addition to underpaying.
So first on underpaying: they would advertise that the Dashers kept 100% of your tips. So what the Dashers would see is an order with the amount they would be making. So for example a McDonalds run would be a $5 job. As a customer you tip me the Dasher $3. DoorDash would supplement the $5 with your $3 and would add $2 to make the $5. The customer would have to really tip well to add a bonus to the order’s run and those were few and far between. If the customer didn’t tip the run would still be $5.
And the there was an incentive time to work that they would call “Peak Pay” which would naturally be rush times like lunch/dinner. How Peak Pay would work is that the Dasher would be paid an extra few bucks on top of their base pay, and you had to do the orders consecutively at a minimum of two times. If you declined any order because of difficulties to you the driver as in distance (which you also had to get to a restaurant in specific time frame or be penalized) or needing to refuel your car or whatever— if you hit the decline button you would lose your accumulated Peak Pay bonuses and instead just make the base payout. So in my case I worked in Austin. DoorDash would let you set your preferred delivery areas, mine was south Austin. I would regularly get orders in Lakeway or north of my location. Lakeway from my location was over 30 minutes, with rush hour traffic. Downtown or north Austin, same story. And my timer to get to a location would be under the time I’d really be able to get to the restaurant so I would lose my Peak Pay. On my last day I got to a point where I’d make two orders and get my Peak Pay bonus, end my session, log back in, do two, end, repeat over a few hours.
Where I would be lied to is when I would get penalized for not making a location in the time allotted. I would call Dasher Support and would normally get support from someone in India would say “I understand, I was a Dasher too, I had the same problems but I just did better.” After hearing two separate supports say “I was a Dasher too, I understand,” I caught the grift.
John also addresses GrubHub starting business without the business knowing, and that happened to my food truck I was managing. After my DoorDash experience I went into working for a food truck. The location I managed was a busy downtown location after Covid. During rushes GrubHub would call in orders. I would be making them during our typical rush (also understaffed but that wasn’t deliveries fault, but the food truck owners). A runner would show up and inevitably I wouldn’t have the order ready yet, I would say that to the runner and they would cancel the order and walk away…. not bothering to wait the extra 5-10 minutes depending on the day they came through. One week I had five orders cancelled on. When GrubHub called again to place an order i mentioned their runners cancelling order and costing me product. They said that my truck’s owner had access to a back page portal to be refunded for cancellations. When I called my truck’s owner he said that he never set up an account and didn’t have any portal. From that point on I refused GrubHub outright. Their call center would call and I would say no and hang up. They then started sending their runners to me and I would deny them as well.
I appreciate the light being shined on this topic but as a food truck cook I would go as far as to say fuck all delivery services. Like many American institutions they are grifting middlemen stealing from restaurants and runners alike. Covid is over and their usefulness has run it’s course.
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u/IBNobody Apr 01 '24
I think that DD changed the "tips eating into your minimum pay" thing, but I never heard what the resolution was.
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u/VinBarrKRO Apr 01 '24
For current runners I hope that it’s somewhere at least beneficial to them but it definitely sucked when they were doing it. The only positive from DD for me was a delivery bag I picked up from them, it’s my regular grocery shopper bag now. I just need to fade the logo off.
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u/hybridck Apr 04 '24
It's not necessarily more beneficial to the dashers now, but it is somewhat more transparent. DD no longer adjusts the base pay per order depending on customer tips and always adds it. The downside is they cut the base rates across the board a few years ago, which is why I say it's probably still not great for the dashers. However, a dasher who has been doing it for more than a day or two can at least easily tell by looking at the order what the customer tipped by subtracting the $2-3 that run normally pays at that hour.
I think they also loosened the strictness on the peak pay times, too. There's no more minimum of two orders, and Dashers can now pass on orders or pause their session to get gas with no penalties. As long as they complete the order, they get the peak pay rate, and it doesn't get reverted regardless of what happens on subsequent orders. So that's a small win I guess.
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u/gambit700 Apr 01 '24
Just started episode and the town I live in is the first story of the night. Holy fuck
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u/leftturnproductions Apr 01 '24
Patchogue?
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u/gambit700 Apr 01 '24
Murrieta. Lego cops
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u/scubahana Apr 03 '24
I have to disagree with John’s take on the police trying to get more followers. This IS a good idea when the police want as many people as possible to be able to identify suspects in a crime. FB and Twitter and all that are this era’s wanted posters. The police in the Nordics have a pretty strong social media presence (also things like Onlinepatruljen in Denmark, where there’s a department that plays in MMORPGs so things like harassment or scams can be intercepted.
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u/proscriptus Apr 01 '24
I feel like the relative gentleness of this episode is setting us up for something really rough next week.
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u/ExistingGayArt6969 Apr 01 '24
“March 31, 2023” no pls don’t make me go back there and redo this last year 🥴
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u/gambit700 Apr 01 '24
John doing a time travel episode, but only going back a year was a choice. He could have go back and told his younger self "Hey, look at me. This is you in 2 years. Stay at the Daily Show"
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u/Walter_Bishop_PhD Bugler Apr 01 '24
Shit. I was going to go through and repost this with a fixed title, but somehow I managed to do the 5 previous episodes with the wrong year in the title without noticing lmao. I'll leave this one up but will use the right one next time.
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u/ashvy Apr 04 '24
Mod bro is a gig worker for reddit. Still ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ tho, as Oliver said, even if you jizzed 5 times this season's episodes discussion posts
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u/The_Path_616 Apr 01 '24
Another great dive into food delivery was done by YouTuber Eddy Burback. Looks at how these apps are flooded with ghost kitchens and virtual kitchens. It's just another way these apps don't care about small local businesses. Looking for American food? For every 1 legitimate mom and pop local business in the app, there's probably 10 virtual/ghost kitchens that disguise themselves as small mom and pops cut are actually run by big companies.
I looked in my area on grubhub and just searched for breakfast. Probably 20 of the first 30 results were all virtual kitchens coming from the same address in a random industrial area. Menus were exactly as described in this video.
Watch watch watch if you haven't.
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u/proscriptus Apr 01 '24
I saw one of those ghost kitchens last week in my dad's neighborhood in Queens, I had no ideas what it was, a warehouse-like building swarmed with delivery people
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u/ThisIsALousyUsername Apr 04 '24
Google Maps says there are 30+ restaurants within 0.1 miles of my Dad's place. All located at the same converted warehouse...
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u/MrPoopyButthole81 Apr 01 '24
I'm flabbergasted to hear they don't make a profit. I have opened the app and started orders to discover I'll be paying nearly 3 times what it would cost to drive down the street. Yet, the restaurant, the driver, nor the app makes money? Bullshit.
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u/Djinn_Indigo Apr 03 '24
Right? Like where could that money possibly be going? App maintenance can't be that expensive.
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u/SmokeyTheBluntTheOG Apr 01 '24
How does one find the American flag/eagle/dick gif that was featured during the DTJ segment? I need that gif in my life for reasons
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u/NeoMegaRyuMKII Apr 01 '24
In California (or at least my area in the state), when a law was passed capping fees on food delivery, Doordash started using something that they called (something like) "regulatory response fee." Basically it was a "we can't charge more for the regular fee so we will charge more with this extra fee" fee. Which really annoyed me and turned me away from these apps for a while when I used to use them more. It seemed like either blatantly breaking the law just to see if they could, or there was a massive loophole that basically made these delivery caps meaningless.
Speaking of California, the ads for Prop 22 were everywhere. It passed by a pretty significant margin, though of course it was deceptive. So many people I talked to about this didn't seem to make the connection that maybe the fact that all these companies funneled in so much money to try to get it passed might mean that it probably isn't the best thing for people.
Now of course there is a lot to be said about the convenience of these apps. And like so many people, I've used them too. It's obviously not fun to pay $30 after fees and tip to get a $16 burrito meal, but sometimes that has to happen. Granted, I am in a position where using these apps is more a luxury than necessity. I am not dependent on these apps and have a car so I can generally go on my own to get food if I want. And I always try to tip well because I know that drivers depend on it (as an aside, have there been proper investigations into the claims these apps make that 100% of all tips go to the driver?).
Now one thing I've found that sometimes helps the restaurants is that some of them let you order online directly from them and then it gets delivered by someone from one of these apps. It is a bit cheaper; although sometimes these restaurants have higher minimum orders and sometimes the delivery fee is higher, I think it means the restaurant itself is getting more of the money. Which helps when I have a hankering for soft pretzels.
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u/kristin137 Apr 01 '24
I was always really confused by the hate for Prop 22. The only change I noticed was that I got a bunch of extra money every time the Prop 22 payments came through? Never figured out exactly what I was missing or why it was bad.
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u/NeoMegaRyuMKII Apr 02 '24
I don't remember exactly (it's been a while since I thought about it, and since I haven't worked with any of these apps I would not have seen any benefit or detriment), but I think it had to do with how it was mostly good for those who worked with those apps to supplement their income while being detrimental to those who did those things as basically full-time jobs.
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u/BeckToBasics Apr 01 '24
All these horse fucking jokes make me think he's gotta have a furry on his writing staff 🤣
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u/notathrowaway75 Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 01 '24
Tim Pool was such a a fucking jump scare holy shit.
They did Garth Brooks so dirty that wasn't strange at all lmao he's just a guy.
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u/StandUpGuru Apr 02 '24
I love this show but this episode really misses the mark.
The fact that the food delivery app industry is not profitable does not mean consumers are benefiting or getting a good deal. It might, and very likely does, mean the industry just cannot be made profitable.
Paying a 70% up-charge on the food, plus a service fee, plus a delivery fee, plus a generous tip is absolutely insane. Not many people can afford to pay $40-50 for $20 of food. And if the success of the industry is dependent on the small percentage of people who can afford that, the industry will not survive.
It is indisputable that the shoppers and delivery people should make more money. It is insane that they don’t. But, if a customer is already paying $40-50 for $20 of food, suggesting they increase it to $60 for $20 of food is equally insane.
Personally, I just don’t think this industry can be made profitable.
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u/CoreyH2P Apr 02 '24
I mean, yeah having food delivered directly from kitchen to your door is a luxury service. We’ve just come to expect it as a normal thing.
It’s like how smartphones used to be subsidized by cell service contracts and once they started charging what they actually cost, we all got sticker shock.
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u/BBQ321 Apr 01 '24
Awful ending point of the episode - "You got to tip!?!?!". The customers are the problem? Low tipping is the problem? What!?
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u/oil1lio Apr 04 '24
yeah, fuck that. Tipping more is not the solution. We already pay out the ass in these delivery app fees
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u/wendelortega May 03 '24
In the context of watching that whole episode I have to agree with what he said.
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
The consumers are not the problem. The problem is these people need to live so the money has to come from somewhere. The companies won’t do it so we should do it.
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u/CoreyH2P Apr 02 '24
I mean, what else would you suggest? The companies could compensate their workers and restaurants better but then the apps would cost us way more.
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u/BBQ321 Apr 03 '24
You are essentially saying that we, the customers, are guilty of making their business model not profitable.
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
We are saying that people should be paid what their labor is worth.
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u/BBQ321 Apr 07 '24
Absolutely, and who is supposed to pay them?
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
You, by tipping. Because the job only makes sense through tips.
Otherwise, don’t use the service.
It’s not hard.
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u/BBQ321 Apr 07 '24
Wrong, to compensate workers is a companies responsibility, not mine. I pay for the food and the service, not my problem the company mismanages its operations.
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
Except dashers and other delivery people are not employees. And they are not compensated for the expenses that they have to take on to do the job.
If they were paid properly, the companies would likely raise the price to keep their costs down and they would push that to you anyway.
A dasher is not an employee, they are independent gig workers. That means the responsibility of their compensation falls also on the people who directly benefit from their labor aka you. There is the food (the restaurant), the service (the app), and the labor, some of it extremely intensive that is left out of the equation by the apps. It is up to you to make up the difference.
You’ve also been directly informed that they can’t really make anything out of this unless they are tipped. So, it’s just kind of the decent thing to do? Tipping a gig worker is not like tipping the Shake Shack employees.
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u/BBQ321 Apr 07 '24
Okay, let's look at it differently. Why did the service (the app) start with the business in the first place and what was their business model? I assume it was to make a profitable business. That is not happening, so now the customer needs to "bail them out"? That is a new level of capitalism and you are somehow okay with it. You surely cannot think it is sustainable to rely on customers tips and I assume that was not the intended business model of the service providers.
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
You’re “bailing them out” by using the service in the first place. It’s no skin off their nose if the delivery people don’t get tipped. They won’t voluntarily pay them more.
If you are using the service, you are supporting the business. If you are using the service without tipping, you are only supporting the business, not the laborer.
You are exploiting the laborer. Tipping the person who puts in the labor is supporting them.
Using the service without tipping while talking about exploitation is severely hypocritical
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u/wendelortega May 03 '24
The thing is that you aren’t paying for the service. You are essentially getting a hot shot delivery and that usually right there costs about $20.00 for that alone.
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u/kristin137 Apr 01 '24
I think he did a great job of both discussing the issues with these apps and also advising how to use them responsibly, i.e. TIP DRIVERS. Reddit hates the idea of tipping app delivery people and it's so annoying. I did Uber for a while and really the only way you make actual money is if people tip.
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u/KvasirMeadman Apr 01 '24
Was he actually high? His eyes looked red, but that could have been faked.
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u/Necessary-Share2495 Apr 01 '24
I highly doubt it. I think it was just a joke. He may partake in Cannabis consumption but I really doubt he would do that on air. Bill Mahr is a known stoner and even he doesn’t get high before Real Time (his podcast however is a different story).
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u/Macluawn Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 01 '24
check to make sure you're still tipping people
no
The entire episode was about how terrible delivery apps are and how terrible gig jobs are, and the conclusion was that customers are to blame? A shame he didnt use his platform to bash on tipping culture instead
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u/ass_pee Apr 01 '24
Yeah this episode was a bunch of complaints with no real ideas for solutions, pretty disappointing. Consumers have to tip and give 5 stars no matter how bad the service is? No.
If you think tipping is not optional, then just add it to the cost of the service and free us from this hell.
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u/SabresBills69 Apr 01 '24
The solution is obvious……don’t use these apps.
when I was in my late teens/ early 20s I did under the table deliveries relying on tips. The key was limiting delivery distances.
in these apps the problem is on both ends. First the companies charge a restaurant a fee taking a cut of their sales. And thrn they aren’t paying the delivery drivers a fair wage.
the restaurants should never lose a cut of their price. Thry get the same if it’s delivered or you pick it up. These apps must attach the delivery fee onto the customer based on distance/ time. Thrn the customers decide if the service is worth it.
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u/oil1lio Apr 04 '24
yeah. what a ridiculous conclusion. tipping culture is the real issue. be the change you want to see in this country. stop tipping
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u/Mister__Mediocre Apr 04 '24
Not a fan of the food delivery segment. Raises lot of good points individually, but really fails to capture the whole narrative. Doesn't even seem like they bothered to read the annual reports, which contain full cost breakdowns, rather relying purely on anecdotes.
- Who exactly is better off if you don't order delivery during a blizzard?
- 0 mention of so many stakeholders who do make money, like all the engineers, executives, insurance companies, payment processors etc.
- Uber at-large is also now a profitable company, which was necessary for its inclusion into SNP500. The data from this episode are outdated.
- What percentage of deliveries happen from reluctant restaurants? I would believe that's a very small percentage, and really shouldn't be what the episode focused on so much. Most restaurants I order from are willing participants in the model. Again, felt like a very outdated concern.
Fact is that most consumers, restaurants and shareholders are happy with the current arrangement. Drivers not so much, and that's where the focus should have been the whole time.
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u/Sudomakee Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24
Many gig workers in California don’t want to be classified as permanent employees and therefore actually supported California Prop 22. They want flexible hours so they can make extra income on their own schedule because they have other jobs or because they have to take care of their kids during the day, etc.
Further, they don't want to be committed to working for one particular company. California Assembly Bill 5 made it basically impossible for most companies to hire workers on an independent-contract basis, which harms those who want to work for themselves as independent contractors and also hurts small, starting businesses that haven’t yet established stable revenue and therefore cannot afford to hire permanent employees yet. (Gavin Newsom, who refused to back down on AB5 in spite of many gig workers vocalizing their support of its repeal, seems to want to do everything in his power to crush small business development in his state.)
No one forces you to work for a delivery app service or any other company that hires gig employees. If you want permanent employment, then work for a restaurant or taxi service. If you don’t have a car like the person depicted on the show, need to buy a backpack, want permanent employment, etc., then you don’t HAVE to be gig worker. Those jobs present opportunities to those who want the side-hustle income. And using the example of the person having to cross multiple bridges for a single slice of cake example is clearly a rare example fallacy.
And did Oliver actually argue against a rating system because it can “impact the livelihood” of the workers and that we should give them 5-star ratings no matter what? Should we apply that principle to all businesses then and either discard ratings systems or give businesses favorable ratings no matter what quality of service they provide us because negative reviews can “impact their livelihoods”?
I usually like John, but this segment was largely social justice warrior nonsense that badly misrepresents the circumstances.
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u/ass_pee Apr 01 '24
imo this episode was one of their worst. 40min of complaining about a situation that you opt into and ending with jokes instead of real ideas for solutions. Weak, 2 stars.
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u/oil1lio Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
I'm sorry, but no. Tipping culture is extremely fucked up, and by continuing to tip more and more, we disincetivize any type of proper change.
I do not tip, and you should not either. The companies and services that we are ALREADY paying so much for should be the ones paying the labor costs.
As someone else in this comment thread said: "if a customer is already paying $40-50 for $20 of food, suggesting they increase it to $60 for $20 of food is insane"
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u/LordReaperofMars Apr 07 '24
Instead of not tipping, try not using the service. You’re making someone do something that only makes sense for them if they get tips. You are actively harming them by making them go through the labor without the compensation.
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u/oil1lio Apr 08 '24
Yep, this is very fair, and I agree. I absolutely feel terrible for the actual workers and hate that they're in such a position.
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u/Grashlok_Onion_lord Apr 01 '24
why was this episode banned in the US if the show is aired in the US?
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u/RespectfullyYoked Apr 05 '24
Just don't order food delivery and none of this is a problem. We survived thousands of years without it, it's the definition of excess consumerism.
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u/rageandqq Apr 01 '24
He made a lot of good points, but are you telling me him or any of his staff (for business meals) have never used any delivery app in nyc? Even after they realized all the issues they spent the episode exposing?
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u/Mosk915 Apr 01 '24
He never claimed they don’t and he wasn’t suggesting no one else should either.
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Apr 01 '24
[deleted]
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u/proscriptus Apr 01 '24
Did you just join Reddit to make racist comments? Just turn on AM radio and shout at it.
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u/Comfortable-Bonus419 Apr 01 '24
How is truth racist. My thing is, American people are not doing well, why do we have to create sectors of economy that cater specifically to undocumented immigrants when Americans can't find good jobs. This is not racism. This is a basic reality of being a citizen of US. We should care for our people here first. It stings but you have to be lying to yourself if u think this occupation is actually for American jobs. Yeah let's add to traffic w motorized bikes w no insurance or license. You probably work for delivery app.
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u/proscriptus Apr 01 '24
Bro.
Migrants, documented or undocumented, are a net economic benefit. They contribute disproportionately to economic activity, and equally disproportionately do not use tax-funded services. There's literally no debate about this.
Your problem is with a nearly unrestricted free market, which almost exclusively creates incentives to exploit people. You might not know it, but you are taking the first steps to thinking about socialism.
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u/CussMuster Apr 01 '24
No need to kill you, it's very evident that you're stupid enough to get that done on your own. The beliefs you are showcasing are so totally bereft of anything resembling a rational or coherent thought that there's really no need to interact with it outside of ridicule. You're a clown, sir.
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u/khando Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 01 '24
I laughed so loud when that guy said “saving for a gift… or starting an orphanage”. That was so unexpected, what an insane thing to say