r/labrats 23h ago

AITAH for calling out a pretentious and rude professor?

I went back to grad school after years working government research and a decade of classroom work. Long story short, I am conditioned to remained poised when dealing with difficult people. I am older than my classmates and closer in age to my professors.

I asked a question relevant to our topic material and professor responded in a very nasty, mocking and condescending way. I calmly told her that she was being unprofessional for treating her students like that. She responded by telling me how much funding she has and how many publications she has. Remaining poised, I firmly stated that her accomplishments are wonderful but do not give her a pass to be rude to her students. In a classroom setting her students need to feel comfortable asking questions, and what might seem obvious to her may not be so for someone who does not have her level of expertise. She appeared surprised and continued with the lesson as if I never said anything.

275 Upvotes

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u/SomeOneRandomOP 23h ago edited 22h ago

The sad truth is it's probably not wise to call them out in public, even if they are in the wrong. Next time, have a quiet word in private. Then, if it continues, go through the correct channels.

Reason for my anwser; In my place, politics come in quite a lot, unfortunately. In academia, I've found nepotism and likeability more important than how good you are at the job. I've seen a significant clinical trial collaboration fall through because a prof wasn't called "prof" in a meeting and had his name said instead, which he read as disrespectful.

Ive seen my clinical colleagues pull back during difficult times in a project as they didn't want to be associated with anything negative, as they will be asking for a references in a years time for a clinic fellowship position etc and let others take all the flack.

I've honestly got countless stories along these lines, the most pretentious people you can imagine, same thing with statements of £m in funding and hundreds of publications....

All in all, academia is, in my experience, the worst place to want a career. Move to Pharma, have 3x the salary and and 1/3 the workload.

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u/darkenedgy 22h ago

I will say that professional workplaces tell you to call people out in private too, tbf.

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u/RickKassidy 22h ago

This. When I was in academia, I got called ‘Doctor’ all the time and had several pretty publications every year. And most of it was bullshit.

Since moving to biotech, I get paid 3x as much, have not been addressed as ‘Doctor’ once, have two publications in the last 10 years but have two drugs, and a vaccine I’ve helped get into the clinic saving lives, several patents, and have traveled the world for fun.

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u/Tiny_Rat 17h ago

It's possible, and a lot if people get their start that way. However, I've also seen people get stuck in roles they'd outgrown without a PhD, and go back to school to get one after a while. It all depends on luck at a certain point. 

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u/RickKassidy 17h ago

Definitely. The difference is that in academia, when you are in a role you’ve outgrown, you are being paid $40k to do it. In industry, you are being paid $80k to do it.

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u/Tiny_Rat 17h ago

Yes, but when you see coworkers with PhDs getting paid $150k to be on the same project, you might feel you're missing out. I'm not sure how the math ends up looking once you take the low salary you get as a PhD student into account, but it is easier to get higher pay and more interesting opportunities in industry with a PhD imo.

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u/RickKassidy 17h ago

Then go get a PhD.

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u/Tiny_Rat 17h ago

I have a PhD. Like I said, this is what I've seen coworkers without one struggle with.

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u/KumCaptain 2h ago

What a weird passive aggressive and defensive response to somebody trying to contribute to a discussion in this forum about the pros and cons of different career paths lol

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u/WinterRevolutionary6 21h ago

Did you get a masters degree or a PhD before going to industry? I have a bachelors rn and I feel like I would need a stronger degree to get good positions in industry. I’m currently a research tech in an academic lab but I’m wondering if I could go farther with another degree

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u/RickKassidy 20h ago

There are lots of good positions in industry for BS degrees. A lot of clever coworkers go into industry and then get their Masters WHILE working.

I had my PhD before moving to biotech.

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u/jpporchie 18h ago

It's entirely possible just like the other commenter said. I've worked five years in industry in an inorganic chemist QA/QC role with only a BS. The experiences I gained from this job actually helped me land a spot in a PhD program this year. Sometimes taking the longer route works out better.

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u/PhoenixReborn 15h ago

With a BS and some work experience, you're probably qualified for an RA level job in industry. I started out in QC with no real work experience beyond lab classes and made a comfortable wage. My next job picked me over a fresh PhD graduate.

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u/WinterRevolutionary6 14h ago

What’s the pay like as an RA? I get 18/hr in my current lab but I’m just not sure it would be better anywhere else

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u/PhoenixReborn 14h ago

Depends on the area and size of the company. I'd say between $50k-$80k a year.

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica First-year Toxicology PhD student 21h ago

I hate to say it, but this is correct. I’m also older OP (early-mid 30s) so I no longer have fear or anxiety to call out this kind of thing, but you have to be extremely cautious, especially if the professor is in your field. Academia is a far smaller world than many of us may think and petty politics abound. You don’t want to say or do anything that may bite you in the ass later. I think what OP said was justified, but I’d leave it at that and take it no further. I’ve been on your shoes before, although the issues were far worse than a nasty comment from a professor, and I ran it up the chain and it did bite me in the ass. So just be careful.

It may even be worth it to speak privately with the professor and apologize if your comments would’ve been more appropriate if raised in private as opposed to publicly in class but that it may be a more efficient to answer questions, even seemingly “stupid” questions, honestly than shaming the student publicly. Try to smooth things over while not swaying from your statement. If they are receptive, awesome. If not, let it be, and be careful around that professor going forward.

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u/Laura_aura 20h ago

Exactly this i also agree strongly btw how do you have a flair sister? Like it says first year phd student, how???

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica First-year Toxicology PhD student 20h ago

For flair, look to the side bar! Under the first area where it says the subreddit title "A hangout for lab nerds" and community guide and all that, the section under it should say "User flair" with your avatar and username under it. If you hover over your username, a pencil icon should appear next to it. Click on that pencil and a new section should open underneath that says "Edit flair" with a box underneath where you can type your flair! After you've entered your flair, click the "apply" button, and you should be all set! Make sure you have officially joined the r/labrats sub first if you haven't already. There should be a button up top somewhere that says "join" to join the sub.

I hope that helps, sister labrat :)

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u/Laura_aura 20h ago

Omg that was so useful thank you so mucj

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica First-year Toxicology PhD student 20h ago

No problem!

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u/slapdashbr 17h ago

Academia is a far smaller world than many of us may think and petty politics abound.

that only matters if you want to work in academia, which is a bigger personal problem

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica First-year Toxicology PhD student 17h ago

True, but its still something to keep in mind even for those who want careers in industry or government because you are essentially part of the academia world for the duration of your PhD and have to navigate academia in order to get to the point where you can defend. You don't want to piss off anyone who can prevent from getting to that point prior to getting there if that makes sense.

After you have that PhD, you're right that it doesn't matter anymore if seeking careers outside of academia.

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u/Laura_aura 22h ago

Exactly this. But i guess few people actually admit to it or have rose colored glasses on (because they benefit from being liked or just benefit from the system) i had a son of a professor mention this to his son who later told me , it’s how likable and agreeable you are not how smart 🫠of course you need to be smart but being super smart doesn’t automatically equal being a professor.

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u/Tiny-Ad-830 20h ago

We had an $8 million grant that was a collab between three big research facilities go south because the president’s wife at one of the universities found out animals were involved and demanded her husband turn down the funding. One of my professors (was in grad school at the time) had to miss class to fly to NIH where he was called on the carpet to quote “tell us what the hell is going on in (state where I live)”. They were literally days away from starting the project. Everything was in place. This president was a former long time state senator so he pulled all the strings he could and shut down the whole thing.

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u/Boneraventura 19h ago

I would say you are correct in handling it in private. I had a moment during my PhD when I was presenting a paper in front of students and faculty. A new professor to the department said I wrong on interpreting a figure. I stated my point again but she kept saying I was wrong, not really explaining it. I didn’t understand what she meant and asked her to clarify and she kept pushing that it was just wrong. I just moved on at that point.

I went to her a few days after (I looked up the point I was making, and came to the conclusion I was correct) and I asked her again what she was trying to point out I was wrong and she just brushed it off as nothing. 

At the time during the journal club, I was very confident in my interpretation because I had years of experience in that field before my PhD. I could have really went in on her and made her look bad, but it isn’t worth it to make enemies over something trivial. It’s worth standing up for yourself, but it isn’t worth making people look bad no matter how correct you are.

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u/MDCCCLV 18h ago

Sometimes it is worth it.

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u/General_Bumblebee_75 20h ago

Some of us like it. The key is to work in a group that is well funded and not dysfunctional. I love basic research and the variety it can involve. I am late career and decided for a change so am now in EHS, which is in some ways even more fun, tracking the research of the labs I am responsible for. Some people thrive in academia, but it is not easy to get that sweet tenure track position. I was a tech, so my life was good as long as we had funding.

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u/Laura_aura 23h ago

Thats so badass but idk if you will thrive in academia. Ive noticed it’s often like a blackmail or hostage situation where PhD or master/bachelor students that need to work for their grade , credits, experience or phd project put up with so much disrespect, bad science or other dumb sh*t simply because they are afraid to speak up since their grade, thesis or reference letter might get ruined. Also professors sometimes have such an ego(who doesn’t but i think % is higher in academia) that if you question their research topic or approach (even if you give multiple logic reasons why and say it’s out of good will) they take offense as if you criticized their very existence or golden child or some shit.

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u/Sriracha11235 22h ago

It’s an elective class and she is not on my thesis committee, so I’m not super worried. The people on my committee don’t like her either because she is rude lol

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u/Laura_aura 22h ago edited 20h ago

Oooh then it’s ok I guess, but these people sometimes all know each other snd if you unnerve one of them, they trash talk you to the whole department and their boss and you are done for🫠🫠 i would still advice to be more careful what you say depending on where you are based and who you talk to, imagine living in those countries where they want a mandatory previous reference from your last employer and you can’t give your 4 year phd boss as a reference cuz you pissed of your boss’ academic bff, you are cooked (of course you already have a lot of experience and probably places to go back to for work or experience in other fields to not be worried but young people who are just starting and have no connections or work experience should be careful, everything can come back to bite you in the behind 🫠🫠🫠 i know it sounds like pussy advice but from what i have seen in 2 countries (and heard from people that worked and studied in 3 other countries) , the biggest ass lickers , those that are least confrontational, most liked or support the status quo get the most praise or most passes if they mess up and etc. ones that speak up too much are labelled too “confrontational “ , “ problematic “ or “negative “

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u/RhesusFactor 15h ago

This is terrorising, and OP knows more about how the world works. You are being bullied in academia by profs with egos.

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u/Laura_aura 7h ago edited 7h ago

Funny cuz most of the other commenters also commented similar stuff to what i said . This type of terrorizing happens in academia in at least 5 European countries according to everyone around me.

Life doesn’t work the good guy standards up to rude guy and life is good kinda way. That’s naive to think. Sometimes standing up can ruin your life or at least your job prospects or your grade or some shit. Bonus points if you are a minority, from a lower socioeconomic status or female or something else that can get you discriminated. It happened to me , that is why i am warning people and will continue to do so. Other friends of mine also had it happen to them or infront of them and warn people. This is why the top advice people tell you for jobs is “Hr is not your friend “ cuz 9/10 times going to HR in a normal company to stand up for yourself can get you in trouble and make your life miserable. Most people in high positions and companies are out for themselves and can be backstabbing. This how MY world works and i will warn people

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u/CurvyAnna 21h ago edited 21h ago

The people on my committee don’t like her either because she is rude lol

Even if they don't like her, they might recognize your approach was improper here and now you left that bad taste in their mouths.

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u/MDCCCLV 18h ago

I don't agree, this is a little too much being cowardly of what could happen.

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u/MDCCCLV 18h ago

Never regret doing the right thing.

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u/pombe Yeast Molecular Genetics 20h ago

That professor? Albert Einstein

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u/parrotwouldntvoom 23h ago

In general, criticize in private. Especially with a power imbalance.

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u/violaki 23h ago

This has all the hallmarks of a fake AITA post, can we please not bring this to r/labrats?

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u/InFlagrantDisregard 17h ago

Right. I recognized OP's user name from similar off-putting, "I'm the main character here" posts and took a gander at their post history. There's some kind of complex going on. I'm not qualified to say what but I rather doubt that everyone in the room viewed this interaction the same, if it even happened.

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u/violaki 17h ago

Holy shit, who posts this much?? It has to be a karma farming bot

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u/CurvyAnna 21h ago

But, did the rest of the class clap? Did half his friends and family blow up his phone after calling him an asshole?

I agree, this stinks like BS.

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u/OldNorthStar 13h ago

I like how they have already decided the professor is rude and pretentious but some we're expected to believe they're seeking validation about the (probably fake) interaction.

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u/Redqueenhypo 21h ago

Or one of those stupid coworker subs. OP did you also do a burlesque dance at a work dinner?

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u/Happycellmembrane 23h ago

Good for you! I feel like this is something I wish I did way more than I can count. I only learned this by leaving academia unfortunately and wish I had the ability to stand up for myself way earlier

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u/Murdock07 22h ago

Academia will only improve when people call out the bullshit.

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u/Laura_aura 22h ago edited 22h ago

Yes but this is an idealistic mindset that unfortunately usually fails. Usually the ones that call out the bullshit get filtered out or traumatized /beat down by the environment and eventually just leave or if they go to report the behavior to HR or higher ups unless it’s something severe like sexual harassment or outright yelling every day or something then chances are the professor will twist it in their benefit and the uni defends them not the poor student , i have heard of this happening all over Europe for example it’s not even limited to the country which shocked me since it even happens in progressive northern countries with good laws and so on 😬😬😬 ever heard of the saying toxicity attracts toxicity , the non toxic ones who value their peace of mind and financial situation eventually get fed up and leave .

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u/ProfBootyPhD 16h ago

I don't think it's possible for us to evaluate this scenario without knowing specifics, sorry. I got my PhD 24 years ago and I've been teaching grad students for 20 years, and I can think of almost no cases where a prof responded to a question in class with what could objectively be called nasty condescension. On the other hand, I've certainly seen students occasionally misread the vibe of a prof's response. In general, calling someone unprofessional should be done privately, if at all.

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u/plumpuddingrizzics 23h ago

some professors need to hear that. once a professor came to show a spelling mistake in a collaborative protocol (which i didn’t write) by getting a pen and paper to spell the word out (protien instead of protein). rude and unnecessary, didn’t feel bad when her biochem course never happened cuz nobody joined due to her reputation.

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u/thegimp7 23h ago

Academia is not like the professional world.

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u/coyote_mercer 17h ago

Honestly wished more people did this, but now you'll have to be careful of being blacklisted. :/ NTA

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u/Fattymaggoo2 15h ago

What question did you ask and what was the topic?

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u/Sriracha11235 15h ago

There was a graph that included isopods (a crustacean) under “insects.” I asked her why, I didn’t want to embarrass her by telling her it was wrong, but I also was wondering if she meant to write “arthropods” or some other typo. I didn’t want to assume what her typo was meant to be so I asked her.

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u/RhesusFactor 15h ago

Good work. Sounds like you got through to them and it will play on their mind for a bit.

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u/max_couch_3214 8h ago

OP might want to consider how they would have responded if the professor were a man. Her reaction, listing grants and publications, suggests that OP was disrespectful in this interaction and that they crossed the line towards questioning her qualifications not only her judgement or response to this one question. To be clear, I am not defending her behavior - it does not sound like she handled it well and there are way too many rude and dismissive professors out there. Still, l suspect that there was more going on here than what OP describes

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u/alchilito 20h ago

I had a virology professor treat a student like crap in front of everyone. She then proceeded to call HIV a death sentence. I quickly reminded her of Magic Johnson. She just stood there like an idiot.

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u/FruitFleshRedSeeds 22h ago

Good on you on making it public but respectful! If she retaliates, everyone else will know that she's being petty.

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u/MakiZenin2403 20h ago edited 19h ago

I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again: academia is a solace for socially maladapted weirdos who wouldn’t make it in the real work force. Sure there are a few black sheep profs who are amazing but for the most part, ppl like who you’re describing can’t work in normal jobs because of their terrible interpersonal skills and narcissistic tendencies that would leave them unemployed. To be quite frank, academia is an incel hub for higher education

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u/Own-Relationship-407 20h ago

It’s honestly rather difficult to say. You make yourself smell like roses with how this is written, but it’s incredibly vague. Maybe your question was stupid or something that you should have known from the readings or previous classes. I realize that doesn’t give the professor the right to be rude, but it also doesn’t give you the right to be disruptive and call her out during class, unless the things she was saying were way over the line.

I can’t help but feel this is fake or deliberately vague, but if it happened the way you describe, you’re both kind of assholes.

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u/jesuschristjulia 21h ago

I think you YTA - you don’t call someone out publicly. You can have a convo one on one - like a poised professional. Avoid tone policing. It’s hard to argue a vibe.

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u/InFlagrantDisregard 19h ago

There's a lot of 10th year PhDs out there that are always right.

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u/Sriracha11235 19h ago

I’m not trying to be right, I’m trying to protect future students from verbal and emotional abuse. PhD students have poor mental health relative to the general population and it is doing a disservice to allow abuse to be unchecked. 

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u/InFlagrantDisregard 17h ago

Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep but I'd bet your peers have a different perspective on this interaction....if it even happened.

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u/Sriracha11235 16h ago

Please elaborate. What do you believe they are thinking? I would love to gain your perspective 

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u/Grouchy-Geologist-28 19h ago

Good for you.

Many in this comment section are warning you not to do this again.

I say stand for your morals. Take that prof down and humiliate them in front of the lecture. Meanwhile, you better take pics of every assignment you turn in and do your work flawlessly. In my opinion, that's worth it. She likely has a much more fragile ego than the facade broadcast (also makes for a dangerous adversary, but I think it's worth it).

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u/No_Chair_9421 23h ago

This doesn't happen nearly enough, professors have a god complex and you can't tell them wrong. I once had a math professor who just said to us, please help me with this derivation. Best professor ever.

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u/runawaydoctorate 9h ago

NTA. But you may have put a target on your back. In my experience, academia DOES NOT recruit people for their people skills and faculty in general are insecure and often emotionally immature. If she has pull within the department, she may decide to use her power to make your life miserable. Shit, I saw powerful faculty kick students around just because they were mad at the students' PIs and to them the students were just another way to pursue a petty grudge. If you've got one of those after you directly...yikes. Find the biggest dog in the department and join their group. Now.

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u/surfnvb7 21h ago

Don't poke a bear, she's probably tenured, and you're not. The academic brown nosing world works a lot different than the private sector.

Short of having to go to HR for something really bad, you are better off either sitting on your hands, or at a minimum discussing this in private with the PI. Tenured PIs generally don't take too well to unsolicited opinions, especially in front of others. I'd watch your back now, you may have just made yourself a target.

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u/ultblue7 18h ago

Definitely not the asshole. I’m a early thirties PhD student and have been having similar experiences where professors simply do not talk to either me or other students appropriately. I have called out my own professor when he talks to me a certain way and I think he is learning but I’m also not worried because, at this age and with my experience, I know how to handle myself.

Idk if it’s going to have backlash but, regardless, thank you for defending yourself and your fellow students.

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u/WorkLifeScience 16h ago

Oh my.... what a troubled person. I'm really sorry you had this experience and kudos to you for staying collected. I hate when people use their position and power as an excuse to be nasty humans. Unfortunately there are people like that everywhere.

I was at a workshop once where the tutor answered my question with "because I say so". Like lady, my grad school is paying for this course and I have asked a relevant question and expect a scientific answer.

I sarcastically told her "well that's a great answer" and the room went quiet. She was horrible to me the rest of the course, it made her colleague uncomfortable. I couldn't care less and remember her as the worst tutor ever. I did a lot of teaching as a postdoc afterwards and if I didn't know an answer to a question, just saying "I don't know, I can/will look it up" was always ok with students. No need to be rude.

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u/Unimatrix_Zero_One 22h ago

No, you’re NTA. You’re absolutely awesome!

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u/BronzeSpoon89 PhD, Genomics | State Food Laboratory 20h ago

People like that are not used to being called out. They think their value comes from their success and that it excuses their behavior. Good for you.

However, you are likely to quickly find out which faculty agree with you and which are friends with your A hole professor. Hopefully you didn't poss off the wrong people.

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u/Hypaesthesia 18h ago

Props to you! I’d say NTA but I’m not sure exactly what the professor said that was so disrespectful. Does the professor respond to other student questions in a similar manner?

I completely disagree with others here that you should have met privately with the professor. If they were comfortable saying these toxic things to you with others present there’s no telling how abusive they could be to you in private with no witnesses. You need to protect yourself first and foremost and having a whole classroom of your peers present puts you in a better position if the professor tries retaliating.

I hope people who are giving OP a hard time for standing up for themselves reassess their priorities. When you let targeted abuse like that slide, you’re telling the person that they should continue to speak to you that way. We’re people, not dancing monkeys serving at the pleasure of feudal lords. It’s not unfair to expect to be treated with basic human decency.

Needless to say, I would not have anything to do with this professor moving forward if possible. Any interactions you absolutely must have with them should be in writing imo

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u/velvetmarigold 23h ago

You handled the situation perfectly.

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u/rballmonkey 7h ago

No, I think you were right.

Younger students are like less likely to stand up for themselves and just accept being bullied. Happened constantly in my major. You showed all those other students they deserve to be spoken to with respect