Statistics In 2023, 69.2% of the EU population owned their home and 30.8% lived in rented housing; Ireland (69.4%)
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
Everyone who lives with their parents or other family members are considered owner occupied in this stat so it’s a false comparison. In most rental societies kids move out at 18 and never come back. Stockholm for example have 50% of the population living alone. Cheap 1 bed studios etc is the norm in the other European cities
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u/Kier_C 1d ago
In most rental societies kids move out at 18 and never come back
The age to move out varies massively across Europe
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230904-1
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u/HighDeltaVee 1d ago
EU average age of moving out : 26.4
Ireland average age of moving out : 26.9
Bang average again.
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
Uh oh, r/Ireland won't like this- we're only allowed to compare ourselves against extreme outliers that suit an agenda
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u/micosoft 1d ago
Well how do you explain then how it is that the housing situation in Ireland is subjectively worse than northern Gaza according to r/ireland 🤷♂️
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u/Ambithad 1d ago
If you correlate the data with the economic state of those countries then the only real comparable country to Ireland is Poland.
Every other country either:
- Has a much lower age of moving out (~24 France/Germany -- ~22 for the Nordics)
- Or has a terrible economy with massive youth unemployment (Portugal, Greece, Spain)
We stand out because our economy isn't struggling, our youth unemployment isn't that high, yet we still have a high age for moving out (compared to countries in similar economic situations.)
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u/micosoft 1d ago
Is “economy not struggling” as far as your scale goes?
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u/Ambithad 1d ago
What I'm saying is, most of the countries with higher ages for leaving the home are like that because of a lack of jobs. It's hard for the youth to leave the family home when they can't get employment.
In Ireland's case it's the housing policy that's causing people to stay at home for so long.
Just pointing at the data and saying "see we're average" ignores the fact there's a correlation between a country having a better economy and a lower age of leaving the home.
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What I'm saying is we need to improve our housing policy, particularly improving the supply of rentals. The whole point of countries trying to have a good economy is because it correlates with quality of life.
What's the point in having a good economy if the average person sees no improvement in their life?
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u/Kier_C 1d ago
In Ireland's case it's the housing policy that's causing people to stay at home for so long
Is it not that our economy was struggling and we're still feeling the effects of that on our housing provision. The developers and skills left, the funding to do large scale development only comes from the government or foreign funds.
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u/pufferfishsh 1d ago edited 23h ago
26.8 was 2019. It's 28.0 for 2023 while the EU average stayed the same. It's rising.
In 2012 our number was 25.4.
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 17h ago
It's rising
It's not rising, your own link shows it was higher in 2020. It appears stable between average and just above average.
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u/pufferfishsh 15h ago edited 15h ago
28 is not "just" above average; it is solidly above average. It is further away from the average than we were in 2012 -- when we were below it. It has risen.
Here it is on a line graph from 2014: https://i.imgur.com/AzCyoDQ.png
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 14h ago
2012 is the depths of the great recession when loads of immigrants left the country. Housing was dirt cheap, strange baseline!
The graph shows it went to 28 and has pretty much stayed there since
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u/pufferfishsh 12h ago
According to a new report, over 68 per cent of people in Ireland between the ages of 25 and 29 are living with their parents. It marks a large increase from 45 per cent of people reported in 2019.
Throughout 2020 and 2021, the number of young people living with parents trended upwards in almost every country on the continent. Since then, most countries have returned to close to pre pandemic rates.
Ireland however, remains a complete outlier in western Europe. 20 per cent of people between 25 and 29 live with their parents in Germany and 17 per cent in The Netherlands. Furthermore, other European countries, such as Denmark, Finland and Sweden, all have rates lower than 6 per cent.
In the EU, on average, 74 per cent of 20-24 year olds live at home. Whereas, in Ireland, 89 per cent of 20-24 year olds live at home.
https://districtmagazine.ie/news/68-of-irish-adults-under-35-are-still-living-with-their-parents/
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
Interesting, we're relatively normal in this regard
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u/RumanHitch 1d ago
Its hard to believe when in 6 years of working here most of yhe people that I met was living at home with parents and the rest was renting.
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u/dustaz 1d ago
What age group were you working with?
I would guess this entirely depends on the sector you're working in
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u/RumanHitch 1d ago
It has been a mix actually of Foreigners and Irish people, the age would be between 23 and 40.
The only ones with a house were Irish couples with children tho. I did meet one guy few months ago that got a house recently and another guy that is about to get one but to rent it😅
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
I find that the minority of the working force, who have finished with education, are living at home with parents.
Extremely interested to see data that backs up your claim as this seems like an anecdote based on a subset
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
Everyone I went to college with (UCD arts degree) either lives at home or emigrated. Everyone I work with is living at home or has emigrated. The exceptions are people who have partners who have been able to buy from two incomes with one usually having a highly paid job
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
Yet again, this appears to be an anecdotal targeted subset rather than anything reflective of wider society.
This is worthless. Thanks
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
30 years ago single graduates of UCD bought houses in Ballsbridge. Now we live worse than labourers in the 80s. That’s not anecdotal. In 1991 Irish home ownership was 82% and another 14% lived in public housing.
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
None of this relates to the original claim that most workers live at home with their parents
I'm seeking evidence for that claim which appears to be misinformation that some people on this sub want to persist
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
I’m not saying most. I’m saying most people from Dublin City without partners under 35 are stuck living at home or in house shares with no great sign of this changing unless they move way out to Louth, Offaly etc or accept long term that renting with house mates is the only option
The people I work with in Dublin and that I grew up with in Dublin is the circles I’m referring to. Like I said many with partners are able to rent or buy as the two incomes or usually having a partner on a higher income/family gifts make it possible. But even then I’m talking about people having to move to Wicklow or Swords etc
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
Well my query relates to addressing the original claim, which you only appear to want to obfuscate into your own agenda.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
Ok, so let me rephrase. In the circles of the people I went to university with, and school with and know day to day, the only ones who have bought homes by their early 30s are in long term relationships with two incomes and largely had to buy in Wicklow or Kildare etc.
The single people fully employed in average income jobs either live at home or in house shares. Now this is the crisis and we should be well able to own homes in Dublin. But I take it you don’t view single people having to rent rooms as a crisis
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u/anialeph 1d ago
You really don’t. Accommodation in the 1980s, particularly rental accommodation was by and large very low quality compared to what we have today.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
People didn’t rent in the 80s. Unless they came to Dublin from the country. My family would have largely been low skilled and all got either councils houses or bought homes in their early 20s in the 80s. Most who got council homes bought them off the council for pennies
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u/anialeph 1d ago
Good for them. I have no idea what local politics were involved in relation to your family. But it was not typical. As I remember it an awful lot of people emigrated rather than getting council houses. Council housing was of tremendously low quality. There weren’t even a thousand council houses a year being constructed after 1987. Public housing was given away for political favour as you point out which was outrageous looking back.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
In 1988 the FF government sold most of the Dublin housing stock to the tenants for less than the council rent as it meant they could make massive cuts to the council budget by not having to maintain them. That’s what my family and all my community got their homes from
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u/mallroamee 1d ago
2 seconds of googling would have shown you that the percentage of adults who live with their parents has increased by a third since 2016. Source from the CSO below. That good enough for you?
I would have thought that someone as condescending as you are could have done this googling yourself.
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
No, the direct claim was that most people are living at home which is obviously daft.
What I'm looking for is evidence of the original claim
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u/mallroamee 1d ago
You are a perfect example of someone who hasn’t a single clue, talking with no evidence about something you know ZERO about. Here is a sourced story the Irish Times showing (with citations) that SIXTY EIGHT percent of people aged 25 - 29 are living at home. That’s more than 50 percent higher than the EU average.
Your condescension is only matched by your ignorance.
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u/smooth_capybara 1d ago
Ah yes, a specific subset who are either still in education or are straight out of it
You seem unable to address the original claim- that most workers are living at home with their parents.
That is the claim and you have so far been unable/unwilling to address it
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u/mallroamee 1d ago
How are people aged 25 - 29 “a specific subset who are either still in education, or just out of it”? FFS
The OP didn’t say most people are living at home, he or she said that most people they have met in their professional life are. You then started in on your pompous bunk demanding statistics. You’ve been presented with statistics showing that not only is the percentage living at home HUGE for young people, but that it has also increased radically over tha past decade. But that’s all “anecdotal” to you. Do you have any idea what you sound like?
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u/Patient_Variation80 1d ago
Because they did an arts degree. What about the ones who studied medicine or law or engineering?
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
I don’t know. I work in media and my circle is all people who studied arts, media studies or marketing. I’m also from a working class background so most of the people I know never went to college and from the background unless they have kids and get hap they live at home.
Of course highly paid people can buy houses. But the majority of Irish grads are not in STEM
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u/Patient_Variation80 1d ago
It takes time to build a career and get financially stable. I didn’t buy my home until my mid 30s.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
And where are you supposed to live in the meantime? My siblings bought in their mid 20s a year out of college in the 2000s and that was expected of me
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u/Patient_Variation80 1d ago
Rent, live with parents, get a council house if you’re that way inclined. These are normal options. Buying a house a year out of college isn’t a realistic goal in any location in Europe where people actually want to live.
Nor should it. Your parents and their generation getting 100% mortgages in the Celtic tiger are a big reason for the property crash.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
But this is the issue. That’s still seen as normal. Renting is still seen as alien etc. I rented alone and my family refused to visited because it was only renting. My sister told me her kids won’t be going to college since I couldn’t even buy a house in Tallaght out of mine
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 16h ago edited 16h ago
The number of STEM graduates is higher than you probably think. 40% of our graduates did STEM.
Then there are also grads from medicine, legal and finance who also would likely find starting a career straightforward
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-mip/measuringirelandsprogress2022/education/
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 17h ago
You answered a request for data with a other anecdote.
Everyone I'm still in contact with from college owns a house. I'm not going to generalise from that though.
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u/IllustriousBrick1980 1d ago
it’s really important to remember that in countries like germany the rental matket is so difficult
long term rental is actually exists for individuals not just businesses. and the rent more affordable and tenants have much more rights than in ireland
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u/Irishbros1991 1d ago
Still living at home with your parents is classed as owning your own home here ridiculous way to fiddle the numbers
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u/Cal-Can 1d ago
And the constant rubbish of oul ones saying "sure most of Europe don't own a home only rent"
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u/ShikaStyleR 1d ago
That's literally only Germany. For some reason Irish people hear about this weird statistic from Germany, and assume all of Europe is the same
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u/ohhidoggo And I'd go at it agin 1d ago
Germans typically stay 11 years in rented homes on average, compared with 2.5 years. In Germany, most of the “owned” houses are run by public housing companies. The standards of housing are extremely high-so renting is seen as good an option as owning. This is not the case in Ireland.
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u/Uriel42069666 1d ago
Almost 40y and inherited some land with a run down house in croatian capital city Zagreb, which I refurbished into a 30m2 studio with a 30m2 basement for roughly 35k euro.
And can confirm that in ex communist countries a lot of people inherited property that was built by the communists to house the workers, soldiers, scientists and distributed by them on social grounds and later the Croatian state for war contributions.
My father got his apartment from being active in the independence army since the start, that my sister will inherit.
Now new builds are popping up everywhere and Croatia is losing population so a lot of people will inherit property when their parents or grandparents die and sell or live in them. New generations have some issues if they don't have any inheritance or if the family is too big so they have to split a property into too many parts. So no one keeps it. But luckily there are properties in rural areas that cost around 10k euro with more than basic amenities. But it's in the middle of nowhere and no work.
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u/HighDeltaVee 1d ago
The problem for Croatia is that the population peaked at 4.65m in 1994, and it's been dropping steadily ever since.
It's down to 3.862m now, so unless things reverse they are never going to have a housing problem.
They're going to have massive other problems though, with a falling revenue base, aging population, increased social costs for pensions and healthcare, etc.
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u/Uriel42069666 1d ago
You said it. It's just the way it is. Looks good on paper but it's more sinister irl
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
The issue is that we used to, up until 2007, have the highest levels of home ownership in Europe with virtually everyone else living in social housing. So this is actually an age thing with older people still having massive levels and younger people lower.
Also culturally housing ownership is seen as the sign of success and maturity so renters are seen as lesser people and failures in our culture. We are not European on housing culturally we are Anglosphere and that’s why renters are viewed as lesser
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u/HighDeltaVee 1d ago
maturity so renters are seen as lesser people and failures in our culture.
That is literally just your family.
You're in every thread on this subject spouting the same nonsense.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
My sister called renting dead money. Are you telling me you many Irish people don’t use that phrase to shame renting? It’s traumatic to be called something that low
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u/HighDeltaVee 1d ago
My sister called renting dead money.
In the unlikely case that this sister actually exists, she has a problem.
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u/ThatGuy98_ 1d ago
Jaysus you're a miserable yolk altogether!
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
How can someone not be miserable if they cannot own a home. How could mental health be ok? Like I’m too physically ugly to have a relationship, but that shouldn’t mean I’m unable to have a independent respectable life too
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u/Ill_Pair6338 1d ago
Go to the gym, I mean this in the nicest way possible, you say you're ugly but that is a a culmination of many factors. Get down to 10 15% bodyfat and tell me that people think you're ugly, You're not ugly and if the housing situation gets itself in a better shape you'll be in a better place anyway. Housing sector is fucked for young people.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
I’m in the gym 3 days a week, I’m in great shape, I’m short but I’m physically fit etc. it’s my face and height that are ugly and my housing situation makes me a loser as I don’t own
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u/Matthew94 1d ago
Also culturally housing ownership is seen as the sign of success and maturity so renters are seen as lesser people and failures in our culture.
Perhaps with you and your friends and family.
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u/Flagyl400 Glorious People's Republic 1d ago
Yeah if you look at that person's comment history it's just endlessly banging a self-pity drum about being a lowly renter. Seems to spring from something their sister said a few years ago.
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u/Matthew94 1d ago
Now that you mention it I've seen this person post a few times before. Apparently they were going to Canada where there is no housing crisis 😅
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 16h ago
They have been posting the same stuff under different accounts for the last few years. They catch you in and then lay on the self pity.
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u/John_Smith_71 1d ago
I've lived in a small development where the house owners looked down on those who were leasehold owners of flats.
Snobbishness isn't on the people who call it out, it's on those who do it.
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u/Matthew94 1d ago
I've lived in a small development where the house owners looked down on those who were leasehold owners of flats.
I find that hard to believe unless these were some pretty tall houses.
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u/amorphatist 23h ago
Why would you give a shite what snobs think anyway? They only have power over you in your own head, because you grant them that power.
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong 16h ago
Most of the time this is in your own head. I doubt most neighbours even think of each other.
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u/Skorch33 1d ago
What is the minimum level of crime necessary in an area for rents to begin to fall?
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u/gideanasi 1d ago
Worth noting that renting in the likes of Finland/Germany/Netherlands are far more secure than us. Typically always a long term arrangement where the property is unfurnished, and includes an unfurnished kitchen.
While it's a big upfront cost to furnish, it feels far more like your own space/home.
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u/Bogeydope1989 1d ago
The graph is pointless if it doesn't show adults who are living in their parents house as renting. They are technically lodgers as well.
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u/Ill-Age-601 1d ago
Not only are adults living at home counted as owner occupied so are people renting off a live in landlord in a house share
In the rest of Europe people live alone when single and not in house shares.
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u/UrbanStray 6h ago
No, flatmates or housemates are very common in many other European countries.
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u/Ill-Age-601 3h ago
Really? Maybe for students but in your 30s? To me it seems like being a total failure and waster. Irish people own their homes
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u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago
They don't own the housing.
They live in owner-occupied housing, which is very different. So a 35 year old who can't move out because of rental costs is in the 69.4%.