r/hungarian • u/Adorable_Charity9506 • 3d ago

Ön and vagy

Whats the difference other ghan ön being in front and vica versa?

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u/Atypicosaurus 2d ago

Ön is a formal you, while te is the informal you. (Sometimes maga can also be used as formal you, just like ön.) If you know German it's like Sie versus du. In old English thou was the informal you and you was the formal until thou got dropped.

"Vagy" can be a verb (to be) or it can mean "or". The two meanings have nothing to do with each other, just a coincidence. I guess you are interested in the verb. Vagy is already conjugated for the informal you (te vagy = you are). With the formal you, the verb is conjugated as 3rd person (ön van = you are). It's btw the same as in German.

Therefore the "ön vagy" is not correct in the meaning of "you are". It can be a correct bit if it's a part of an expression such as "you or I" (ön vagy én). Think of something like "you or I, but somebody must do it", but the context tells that this vagy is not the verb.

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u/Fiveby21 2d ago

Why is "van" ommited when speaking to someone in ön form?

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u/Atypicosaurus 2d ago

It's one of the property of Hungarian, that we omit the verb "to be" in 3rd person, present tense descriptive statements.

John is big = John nagy. This dog is cute = ez a kutya aranyos.

I don't know the core linguistical reason for it (if at all it's established), but since the informal you (ön) is conjugated as 3rd person, it also exhibits this omitting phenomenon when applicable.

Note that it's only descriptions (big, small, sad, rich, father of, mine), but not such thing as someone is in cinema (whereabouts - Tamás moziban van), with someone (Tamás Annával van), so basically when the statement is with postfix. Nor in passive (a ház ki van festve), or if the statement is the sole existence (hétfő van).

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u/vressor 3d ago edited 3d ago

ön is a pronoun, vagy is a verb, ön is for formal address, vagy is for informal address

... what's the the difference between you and are other than you being in front?

since you're asking about words, the best thing might actually be you using a dictionary and looking ön and vagy up in it