Was Ocon really the right choice?

[u/Blubmans]

I was never opposed to Ocon joining the team as he had many great races and was ahead of gasly most of this season, but the last few races where the alpine was really strong, apart from brazil (where he drove supurb) he was behind gasly and by a lot. When gasly got in Q3, Ocon was out in Q1.

[u/BlKaiser]

Didn't Alpine have the latest upgrades only on Gasly's car? Or am I wrong?

[u/Erock94 → u/BlKaiser]

You are correct. They have not had equal machinery, plus made Ocon swap positions earlier in the year and didn’t swap back. Ocon beat Gasly in a worse car in Brazil and the gap in points is actually closer than what the scoreboard shows in proper team conditions.

[u/RumBlaze → u/Erock94]

• After the summer break, some of Ocon’s mechanics (including his chief mechanic) were moved to Gasly’s side.
• Early in the season, Alpine hired some new engineers that all became a part of Gasly’s team, Ocon’s engineering team was about half of Gasly’s
• All upgrades post summer break were given to Ocon 1-2 races after Gasly
• He has had an issue in his car with traction since Austin and wanted a chassis change, but the team denied (got P2 in Brazil despite this, and according to the official French broadcaster Canal+, Alpine forbade him to speak to the media about the issue on his car).
• Despite all this, he beat Gasly 13-10 in the quali H2H

[u/Blubmans → u/RumBlaze]

That explains a lot, I found it weird why he was so far back compared to gasly in the last few races.

[u/CatSplat]

Alpine hasn't been giving shit to Ocon for months, P2 in Brazil proves he can drive.

[u/BarryZuckercornEsq → u/CatSplat]

He drove well but that was one of the most outside-influenced races I’ve ever seen. He was not necessarily the second best driver on the grid that day. Good timing and luck and strategies got him P2 more than raw driving

[u/CatSplat → u/BarryZuckercornEsq]

Of course it was a chaotic race, but he straight up beat Gasly who is currently getting accolades for his driving in the Alpine. Ocon has been good at making the most of those chaotic chances when they appear.

[u/formula13 → u/BarryZuckercornEsq]

He was already P3 before the red flag.

[u/Embarrassed_Diet8359 → u/formula13]

Like he was in P3 on merit. His overtake on Tsunoda was amazing. He was even pulling away from Verstappen when the track was the wettest.

[u/citizenecodrive31 → u/BarryZuckercornEsq]

He started P4 (because of a great Quali), overtook TSU to get P3 and when the front two boxed foolishly he knew from experience that it was best to wait for a red flag (he got screwed in Zandvoort).

He lead the race and pulled away from Verstappen but had some wheelspin on the second restart (car entered gearbox safety mode) and lost out to VER. He finishes P2.

Where is the luck? Outside influence?

[u/RagingSofty]

I had read that all real support for Ocon had ceased. I think his top mechanics got moved over to Gasly’s garage or something. Other pundits have said it is not unheard of for drivers on the out to be kind of shunned.

Consider this: Ocon won the quali H2H 13-10 and he hasn’t seen full support for nearly half the season and has been nowhere the last 3.

[u/Embarrassed_Diet8359 → u/RagingSofty]

Prior to the summerbreak (before the Haas announcement), he was 10-4 but after he only outqualified gasly 2 times (Singapore and Brazil). No driver drops of that badly so suddenly. And the situation became worse starting from Austin.

If you're interested, Chris Medland talked about Esteban's situation in Alpine.

https://racer.com/2024/12/03/why-theres-more-to-the-alpine-driver-switch-than-it-seems/

[u/anthony412]

I’m typically not an Ocon fan and I even can see how bad Alpine hung him out to dry. We have no real basis to see how he will perform at Haas.

[u/BreakingWorldLimits]

Ocons mechanics where moved to gaslys side of the garage and it’s clear the support from alpine isn’t there and he was producing many greats performances when he had support. The wet weather quali and race in Brazil demonstrated what he could do in more fair circumstances. Kmag himself has endorsed him I think we should support him

[u/Erock94]

I’m a big KMag guy and honestly haven’t been a Ocon fan, I’ve been a hater actually. Ocon has been in worse machinery all year compared to Pierre. Ocon is very talented driver, and when he joins he will be the most talented driver Haas has ever had. He’s a bit of a cunt at times, but he’s a good driver no doubt.

[u/SavvyGent → u/Erock94]

he’s a good driver no doubt.

Sure.

when he joins he will be the most talented driver Haas has ever had.

Let's calm down a bit.

[u/Erock94 → u/SavvyGent]

What other driver has Haas had to this point that’s had more raw talent than him? Romain? It’s not saying a lot but I feel it’s true. Not like we’ve had much to compare with

[u/isitdonethen → u/Erock94]

Probably Hulk tbh. I think Hulk and Ocon are very comparable (their stats with Perez as a teammate are similar)

[u/roushmartin6 → u/Erock94]

Ocon is good but idk if he is better than Hulk

[u/RavenLabratories → u/roushmartin6]

As much as I love Hulk, I don't know if he could've done what Ocon did at a race like Saudi Arabia 2021.

[u/pbmadman]

While Ocon hasn’t always beat his teammate, he’s consistently had a better top finish than them. He’s got it in him. It really seems like Alpine tried to freeze him out the at the end anyways. Just look at the difference between how Alpine treated him vs how Mercedes treated Hamilton.

It will be interesting to see how he is as a clearly more experienced driver, we’ve not seen that side of him.

[u/iIenzo]

Ocon has had some great performances, and we really can't trust Alpine to have given him a fair chance. Whether he's better than KMag, I guess we'll have a better idea next year. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he also has some issues in the Haas team. 

One thing Haas clearly struggles with is reacting to unexpected opportunities and nailing key pit stops (see all of KMag's slow pit stops & strategy fails), and from what I've seen both Ocon & Bearman seem to be closer to KMag in attitude than Hulk. That's also what I hope Ocon can bring to the team: a wake-up call that if Haas wants a miracle, they'll need to be able to nail it when it matters.

[u/BarryZuckercornEsq]

I’m not big on him as the next Haas driver, but not because of this race. This race didn’t show much of his ability or inability.