r/geography • u/wurfbatterie • 21h ago
Question What‘s the story behind this German/Belgian border?
Found this weird border shape near the Dutch-Belgian-German border triangle.
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u/Fettlol 20h ago edited 11h ago
According to historical maps of the former area of Neutral Moresnet, which spanned from the tri-border-point to the town of Kelmis (just a few hundred meters south of this cut out), this border is in place since 1916. Before that, both sides were German, as the border was further west then. As for why precisely, I can only guess.
Here is some more info about Neutral Moresnet. Super interesting, but doesn't answer your question. The map I'm referring to is pretty up top, but the legend explaining the border is only included in the German version
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u/runescapexklabi 20h ago
For everyone reading this, read more about Moresnet! It's insanely interesting
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u/nakastlik 17h ago
The closest we ever got to an Esperanto speaking country
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u/Fettlol 11h ago
Oh it's far more on top of that. It is probably the only example of a corporate run municipality - that means, in Europe, without colonizing people the higher ups didn't recognize as human. Due to the inhabitants ability to leave, the mining company in charge actually needed to establish a decent amount of infrastructure to keep their workers content. There were public schools, bakeries and hospitals.
It was also a save haven for draft dodgers of the surrounding nations and a smuggling hub. Due to it's lack of oversight by fanatically nationalist states, philanthropist movements like the esperantists tried to set foot there.
It's a freak accident of history. A beautiful story of a somewhat "wild west" in Europe.
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u/USP_official 19h ago
I am a proud believer of Neutral Moresnet sovereignty 😤 (The flag looked cool)
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u/StarSailor_79 13h ago
Super interesting. I ended up reading about Rose island here in the Adriatic sea, a short lived micronation to have Esperanto as their official language also. A netflix movie with the same name tells the story 👍
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u/GadzinYT 21h ago
No idea, as far as I can tell the border looked like this even before ww2. Maybe back then there was a german house there and they changed the border because of it, like idk.
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u/jamespetersimpson 20h ago
On street view the Belgium part is a wood and then the German a field, so maybe it was farm land and so they kept the farmers land within Germany rather than splitting it
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u/Funk-n-fun 20h ago
The guy drawing the border was poked to the side by his collegue.
"Damn you, Dieter! That's not funny!"
"Oh come on, it's....borderline funny, ja?"
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u/Gimpalong 21h ago
Well, when a daddy Germany loves a mommy Belgium...
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u/Aadsterken 20h ago
They make tiny Luxembourgs?
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u/magicman9410 20h ago
EEEEEEWWEWW
Knowing how little Luxembourgs are made is not something I needed to learn today.
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u/Darko33 17h ago
I know this is an incredibly specific gripe, but the fact that on the Sporcle European minefield map game, the fact that you can just click an arrow to indicate Liechtenstein and Andorra and Monaco and San Marino, but actually have to find the 0.3-pixel area where Luxembourg happens to be, which is nearly impossible without getting Germany and France first, is infuriating beyond words
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u/StevenDeere 19h ago
There's an even more interesting part of the border around Monschau. Theres a part of Belgium going through Germany. The reason is that a part of Belgium "Eupen-Malmedy" belonged to Germany during ww2. When it went back to Belgium after the war the now belgian Railway went through Germany so Belgium also got the territory of this railway. The railway nowadays is a bicycle path.
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u/ben-ba 18h ago
more about exclaves and exclaves like this one; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_enclaves_and_exclaves
or
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u/Attygalle 19h ago
I've literally cycled there a couple of times.
The border moved to the east there roughly after WWI, It's all farmlands and forest. Best guess is it's farmland related or something like that. A farmer who would have had this particular plot cut in two by the new border so they've worked around that.
There was some mining activity in that area - coal mines in the general area and closer to the exact spot is La Calamine (3km from here), which is literally named after mining activity into Zinc Spar or Smithsonite. Could be it is related to that but I think it's too far from it to be true.
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u/EducatorComplete4560 18h ago
Thought it could've been a remnant of the Neutraal Moresnet that once was there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Moresnet But that is more to the west so not the culprit
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u/snowfloeckchen 21h ago
Look at the Dutch Belgian border, and you are fine with this one. There is also a train track along the Belgian border that is way more interesting
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u/MaximosKanenas 19h ago
If it was the french that would be where they put their nuclear power plant
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u/Val2K21 21h ago edited 20h ago
Edit: this is not one of the Vennbahn relics. The correct reply is apparently under this one. Still keeping this comment explaining Vennbahn relics of German-Belgian border as some think it’s interesting in any case
Ah, the Vennbahn relics. Here is a piece where it’s explained:
- The Vennbahn Railway Line:
• The Vennbahn was a railway built in the late 19th century to connect towns in what is now eastern Belgium and western Germany.
• Following World War I, the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 awarded the railway and its immediate surroundings to Belgium, even though it crossed into German territory.
- Resulting Border Anomalies: • The transfer of the railway to Belgium created a series of small German exclaves (land fully surrounded by Belgian territory). • These exclaves are scattered along the border and consist of small parcels of land that belong to Germany but are separated by Belgian-controlled land surrounding the former railway.
- Modern Implications: • The railway itself is no longer operational, but the borders it defined remain in place, leading to unique situations like the one highlighted in your map. • The specific “T-shaped” feature in the image likely marks one of these areas where the historical border decisions around the Vennbahn resulted in a strange boundary.
- The Three-Country Point (Drielandenpunt): • This location is near the Drielandenpunt, the point where Belgium, Germany, and the Netherlands meet.
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u/Alternative-Fall-729 21h ago
No, Vennbahn is further to the south and east, not even close to this particular border section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vennbahn#/map/011
u/Val2K21 21h ago
Ahhh I mistook it then. Sorry for misinforming, everyone. Thanks for the link
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u/kimniels 20h ago edited 20h ago
Well please delete your reply then?
Edit: how am I getting downvoted?? Wrong answer - why shouldnt it be removed?
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u/woodyman_ 20h ago
I think it's still an interesting factoid
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u/willllllllllllllllll 18h ago
You're getting downvoted because of the way you framed it. It comes across as a bit passive-aggressive.
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u/nekommunikabelnost 5h ago
As somebody who lives around there, and besides the point that the branch starter was wrong, I can’t help but wonder what’s your definition of “close”?
Charitably starting from the beginning of the nowadays’ Vennbahn bike route at Rothe Erde, it’s less than 10km by road
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u/Puzzled_Ad7478 19h ago
I remember having walked there a couple of years ago. There was a sign there that said it was a cemetery with victims of the plague or another disease from the nearby city of Aachen. The ground was donated to Germany to honor the dead or their relatives.