I mean don't get me wrong but whenever we go to America we always tip and follow the norm, but it's totally abnormal to us here in New Zealand. Here the minimum wage is nearly $23 and tipping just isn't a thing here. I'm pretty sure in most places around the world tipping isn't normal is it?
I agree it's weird to go somewhere where it is normal and not do it, but I absolutely hate the idea of it so I get where they're coming from.
I also hate how prices of shit on shelves in USA is shown without tax. Here in NZ everything is shown prices with tax
I know you have three dollars and that candy bar says it costs 2.99, but you can't buy it... Because it might cost you 3.21, or perhaps more or less depends on what state city your in (we are in a border town).
For YEARS i was confused about movies or videos that showed people not being able to pay for their groceries because they didn't have enough money at the cash register.
I was confused because I didn't understand why they couldn't sum it up as they put it in the bin. It's not until a few years ago I learned about how the prices are set there and how tax varies and only shows at the cash register.
Oh wow. I have never lived in a place where you have to add tax separately to the items you are buying, so never knew that was a thing.
I know not everyone is good at maths, me included, but it still sucks that the item you are buying will be taxed further at the till, considering that it might already have taxes levied against it already.
Maybe I am wrong on the last part, are the items you purchase tax free and then the tax will be added when you pay for them?
In Canada you really have no clue at a grocery store because certain food items are taxed and some aren't. Just assume everything is getting taxes and bring 13% extra (unless there's alcohol then just get effed)
In Massachusetts the tax isn't included and is 6% but food isn't taxed unless it's a prepared food like a premade sub or food from the hot bar or if the store sells cooked and ready to eat pizza or something. Now it's pretty easy for me to figure out because my phone has a percentage button on my calculator that pre installed. It's a little annoying to have to add that up myself but still not too hard when I bother to. I think those types of scenes in movies are largely for dramatic effect anyways but I have seen it in real life where people do get to the register and realize they don't have enough. It's usually by a lot though, like their purchase is $200-300 and they realize they only have $25 and you wonder how they didn't have enough money but then you see they have a food stamp card and just haven't been tracking their spending or how much is left on the card
Correct, they donāt show the taxes until you pay at the cashier. In the US, everything is taxed every step of the way. If a food manufacturer makes a product that is sold to a grocery store, that sale is taxed, then the product is taxed again when it is sold to a consumer. All of the raw ingredients that the manufacturer had to purchase to make the product were taxed too. So, it depends how many transactions it takes to get from raw ingredients to consumer. And by the way, the money that the consumer used to buy the product was already taxed when they got their paycheck from their own employer. So your taxed when you get your money, and taxed when you use it.
If you buy a used car, itās taxed even though the car was already previously taxed when it was sold new. Every time itās sold to a new person, itās taxed every time. The gas to use the car is taxed. Every year you have to pay a registration fee to keep your carās license up to date, which is a form of tax.
Property taxes arenāt just paid once when you buy a house, you have to pay them every year. And when you sell your house, thereās a tax on any profit made from the growth of the homeās value. Not to mention real estate agents taking 6% of the homeās value for themselves when the sale is completed.
And this doesnāt even get into taxes on dividends or investments.
In Europe the companies are registered in a tax database so that the only real tax is the one at the end (end client sale). The mid-chain companies do not have to pay VAT or are reimbursed if they do and declare it. Sales to end chain client are always taxed.
In my country we don't have yearly registration fees for cars, you pay once and that's that,
You are taxed on your salary, but it also covers health insurance and retiremement funds as the company pays a share of it. So we end up better served.
Property taxes are paid annually as well. Value added tax on sale is only if you sell within ten years of buying. After ten years you don't pay it.
And when you enter a shop, the price on the items are what you are supposed to pay, not the net price and add the taxes on the price yourself. :)
This sounds much better! Employers here pay half of the health insurance premiums and employees pay the other half, but healthcare here is so expensive anyway so if the healthcare plan isnāt very good, itās going to be very costly if you have to go to the hospital for anything non-routine. Employers here also typically provide a match on retirement contributions, but itās usually only in the 4-6% range.
I know. That's the reason why I refused a job in the US. I have a long term illness, it is 100% covered by the public health system here. I would be ruined in the US.
In Virginia, most non-food item sales are taxed at 5.3%, along with prepared food and alcohol; ingredients/staple food items are taxed at 1%, and many healthcare products are not taxed.
However, localities can also add additional taxes for restaurants/āmealsā, which can take it up to 8% or 10%, and thatās entirely separate from any tips.
I can tell you it was the nastiest surprise we had while visiting the US. I mean, who put the price without taxes instead of the price you have to pay on an item?
The only time I see this happen in my state is when liquor is being sold and you got see the entire price with tax. But sometimes that doesn't even happen lol.
It's even worse because some cities charge multiple taxes when you get to the register because they separate municipal, county, and state taxes on the receipt.
You can only attempt to do that when youāre in a familiar area where you know what the local tax rate is. Plus there are plenty of items that are taxed more or less depending on what they are. Alcoholic drinks are often taxed higher while raw ingredients like vegetables are often taxed less.
Frankly, itās also considerably more time consuming if you want to keep a running tally. You have to save the previous total, multiply the new item by the tax percentage, then add the previous total back in. Instead of simply adding as you go.
Itās just completely unnecessary. We should stop hiding additional cost.
āThoseā people? I made no assumptions about the type of people that might be financially struggling. I only pointed out that itās an unpredictable and unnecessary burden.
Iāve not been paycheck-to-paycheck in over 20 years but I have been before. Yet, Iāve always been extremely good with math. Luckily, I didnāt have kids to support back then. Thereās a lot of reasons someone might have a tight budget and the situation is not necessarily their fault. It doesnāt automatically mean theyāre stupid.
I honestly don't think i've ever seen a place that shows the tax reflected in the price.
However a restaurant in my town breaks down your taxes at the bottom of the tab. I think they must have been pissed about the amount of taxes they have to impose.. so they call out where they go at the bottom.
Wait, wthf that's so so un ethical and sure illegal. I'm from Portugal and on our store we have the final price, the price that is used for calculate the total ( exemple: , Coca-cola can final price yes with tax, the tax percentage also is written and below also is the price per litter or kilograms of that product).
About tipping, man the business owners have to know how to pay to his workers. I mean if the boss can't pay his workers so shouldn't be the boss or have the business open. What do you do on other business areas like , idk IT, who is supposed to tip the worker? Police, who tip? The victim or the criminal? The tipping culture is just nonsense.
I also have hear that in some places it's mandatory by law to tip , is that true?
Umm if your kid and you are stupid it is hard to explain. Its really not that hard. My sisters kids both know to add on 60 cents- 5$(cause my sister is hella weird, but i love her)extra to any price on the candy or toys.
Taxes differ depending on where you are and what you buy...
For example:
Oregon/Montana - No sales tax. Pretty damn easy... unless you are in a resort location in Montana.. and then all of a sudden there is a tax. So are you in the resort area or not? Is the price of the candy bar 2.99, or is it 3.06?
Minnesota - No tax on clothes, but tax on other things. My city has taxes that are not applicable two blocks away, outside my city.. or two miles away in a different state.
So, they understand the concept of taxes, but not what the actual tax rate is going to be when they go to a store to buy a candybar.
So, I'd love for you to please quickly explain that to kids in a way that they could quickly and easily assess the minutia of different taxes that might be levied against their gas station candy.
Dude chill they're only 8 & 7, they get the small kid explanation for our area in CA, they are not traveling outside of the area they live in. Once they start learning more advanced maths and start traveling then she'll start teaching all the rest. But they understand the concept of taxes. Who hurt you?
My fucking brain hurts when trying to explain life to 17 year kids on the internet.
I know it's not fucking rocket science. I know it's basic fucking math. But when you are a kid, just learning about money, and how stores operate, kids aren't well versed in tax law (besides the dad tax) and how it actually works. My kids now know that if it says 2.99 they can't buy it with three dollars (unless again they are in Montana or Oregon), but they don't know what kind of wiggle room there is. 2.86? 2.75? 2.50?
Your toddlers know how to take 6.875% + 1.5% +0.5% and depending on the business another 2.5% and multiply that by the cost of their goods and then subtract that from the amount of money they have?
sorry bro. I call bullshit. That is not toddler level math.
1.) Often times a multi-state corporation sets the price for an item, but then dependent on what state you're in, the taxes will be different. My understanding in most European countries, the VAT is standard across the country (correct me if I'm wrong here).
2.) There is an idea that people should know what they're paying in taxes. If the taxes are bundled in with the price, it removes transparency. This is why in the US a lot of times on purchases where the price including tax is the required one to be shows (e.g. gas stations), the gas station will put up signs at the pump showing the consumer where their dollar is going- what percentage to buy the gas, what percentage to federal/state/local etc.
Well German here who visited many other European countries. We tip. A little. Maybe round up to the next euro or the next step of 5 or 10 depending on the size of the bill.
On this one I would maybe go to a even 300.
It varies a little from country to country and how high class a joint is but yeah.
Pay your service workers a decent wage so they donāt have to bow and scrape for tips. If your workers or your restaurant can not survive without tips you running a shitty place.
I really like how some countries they bring you the bill on a tray you put money on it they take it back and bring you the change. Then without the waiter present you take whatever fells right and the rest is the tip.
Interesting. I'll admit the last time I was in USA was 2019 and the time before that was 2011, but back then more often than not I would see things on the shelf and have to add tax on top myself haha. That was mostly around LA and San Fran.
You are absolutely correct prices shown are without tax. However in every different state or locality different taxes are applied to different things and you never know what is taxed or not.
In the age of computers this is totally ludicrous, but people say oh we can't show the total price because we advertise in the newspapers because it's different in every little locality, as if anybody looks at a newspaper anymore.
I don't doubt you whatsoever haha I just thought it was an interesting observation since we are usually the ones getting crapped on for it. Though, similar to provinces here having different tax amounts, they likely have differences depending on which state you're in as well - I've never been to Cali, so that may very well be the case there. I'm the same, I start mentally calculating the tax in my mind haha it's frustrating for sure.
So, each state and county within it's own state has its own set of sales tax and whatnot in the U.S. and is quite fluid. Due to that reason, tax is not calculated until you reach the register.
The U.S. is pretty big and each state is kinda like its own country, so instead of having to constantly change pricing on the shelf, they just leave the price without tax.
Plus, there is a thing such as tax exemption for certain situations (for example, schools buying something for children to use at the school would be tax exempt).
All of those things happen elsewhere, including exemptions etc. itās just that everyone else handles it properly. Thereās no excuses for a pants system however you try and swing it.
I don't think you understand how quickly tax can change in the U.S.or how varied it is. We have 12,000 tax jurisdictions. I believe the E.U., for example, only has 10.
Tax changes on a date and time basis, it's that often. It doesn't happen as often in most other places.
instead of having to constantly change pricing on the shelf
You wouldn't have to constantly change the pricing on the shelf though, unless you're implying that individual physical store shelves are constantly being picked up and moved throughout the country. If the register can do it, you can print the appropriate label. It's not complicated and you don't have to defend anti-consumer practices like this.
Well, the tax is also on the sale, not the item's individual price, particular exceptions notwithstanding. All this changes from county to county. There are 50 states within the U.S. with multiple counties contained within.
Like I said, tax rates change often here, and having to relabel everything in a supermarket in the U.S. would take a ridiculously long time. Our supermarkets are much larger than typical ones across the world. The tax rate for each county and state is available online and very easy to calculate for total sales since tax isn't based off the individual item.
It's both easy to calculate but too complicated to label?
Look we're never going to agree on this I guess but I'm shocked to see consumers act like the calculation is easy, but the labeling somehow beyong the capacity of store owners. If you're happy with it though then by all means be happy with it. I just wish you'd stop making excuses for it.
Haha no worries I wasnāt trying to call you out or anything, I just was genuinely surprised that you saw that here because it is definitely not the norm
Absolutely. The price sure is more expensive but Iāve never done the math and accounted for exchange rates at all that kind of stuff. Food in general is ridiculous here at the moment but like as an example a typical medium Big Mac combo or something like an average subway foot long will sit closer to the $20 mark these days. A typical 250ml energy drink like red bull at a gas station will cost $4-$5, $6 for a 500ml. Hate using those examples but theyāre pretty generic world wide. Iāve never really done the math at a proper sit down restaurant but the prices here range so much depending on where you go.
Gas has also dropped a lot recently but weāre still paying equivalent of $12/gallon. We use litres here and weāve just dropped back to under $3 a litre but last year at times it was up to $3.50 a litre.
Tbh Iām not overly familiar with food prices in USA anymore but when we went to Japan last year we were just blown away by how cheap everything was. Every day snacks and drinks that are usually $6-$8 here were like $0.80 - $1.40 kinda thing.
I'm an American who isn't very "worldly" so my experience is USA and Canada (tourist areas) tipping was still expected and prices similar (adjusting for exchange rate and cost of living). I was curious if we raised prices by 20% and do away with tipping if it would equal out with other countries that don't do tipping.
I'm American. I have a Aussie friend who was making her first extended trip to the US recently. We spent a significant amount of time discussing how to properly tip. When it's expected, for what services, and how much. Trying to explain it to her highlighted just how weird and clunky it is.
Thatās the thing that bothers me - how clunky it is haha. Like tipping isnāt forbidden here but it definitely isnāt the norm. I just like things to be set in stone and clear to the eye. If I see a price on a shelf, I want to pay that price. If I go to a restaurant and read the menu I want to see the price Iām paying. It just feels easier and less stressful.
Tipping is a thing in other places, just not to the level of america, plenty of places in europe take tips, but it's not expected, and often times it can be just telling the waiter to keep the change. Some go beyond that but I've never seen it be done as a percentage.
Thank you for tipping while in the US! Itās essential for workers who absolutely depend on it as part of their wage, unfortunately. Everyone needs to understand this. Tipping is a must here in the restaurant industry.
But I agree with you, I like it way more when the price shown already includes taxes, however I believe we add it on separately for transparency to see the breakdown more easily.
Yes, the problem in the US is that tipping is now not considered a reward for good service but an āentitlementā that people get offended over not receiving because their base wage is so poor that it is necessary for them. Most people would be happier if everywhere just increased their prices and paid their employees more because it amounts to the same thing but American culture demands that they individualise it so you can choose to reward the individual more through tipping rather than socialise the price and split it evenly amongst the employees as salary.
I literally donāt care. You arenāt tipping enough. Everytime you go out you should pay the waiters rent. If you canāt afford to tip you canāt afford to go out
I was at a fairly pricey restaurant yesterday in Denmark and when I paid by card, the waiter just told me. Push the green button twice to avoid tips.
And I wanted to tip him since he was very nice. But I just pushed twice on the green button. ā¦
I'm sure that in New Zealand they also pay everyone the minimum wage, including tipped staff and workers who make commission.Ā
In the US, without tips, the tipped worker cannot survive because most of them only work part time and are kept after work, off the clock to clean up the restaurant and pay out the restaurant.
But I also agree that tipping culture is out of control where you're asked for a tip that doesn't even go to the worker but goes to the retailer. I always ask the staff if they receive 100% of the tip and if they do then I pay it in cash not on my card even if I pay my bill on my card. But I will write the word cash on the bill if I pay with my card so that the restaurant knows that the staff member provided good service.
Can confirm as a kiwi, I was tipping 20% in the US a few years ago, and also leaving tips for the hotel cleaners as well! But so thankful it isnāt a thing here (besides the normal pub tip jar which isnāt mandatory lol). Glad we pay a fairly decent minimum wage.
It's literal hell. I go to the store, see bread costs 1,99, and then when I go to checkout I have to pay 1,99. The barbarism, hiding the easily discernible sum of both tax and product in one convenient number that allows me to know exactly how much it costs me, the purchaser.
Yea verily we live in disarray, and I only dream of one day having the freedom of pre-tax prices displayed in the land of milk and honey known to us as America.
Instead, in this waking nightmare called Europe, I receive an itemised receipt that displays the cost of each item as well as the tax paid, but by Jefferson that's just not good enough!
I like transparency and itemization, and do not prefer opacity even at the cost of convenience.
I guess you missed the not so subtle point within my sarcasm then, namely that nothing is hidden from you or opaque, and every receipt you get will tell you how much tax you pay. If it is opaque to display the purchase price and then itemise it all in your receipt, I'm quite eager to hear how it is somehow wildly more transparent to display the pre-tax price and only at the register tell you the actual purchase price, and then give you essentially the same receipt.
But also I'm quite happy to mock American's defense of silly anti-consumerist practices like that, especially when they defend them through an obtuse lens of 'transparency'.
E: also tbh you lose a lot of good-faith points when you end your post with silly things like
So much for consumer transparency!
which is broadly what I'm mocking you for. Don't put that out there and then act offended when you're rightfully mocked for a silly opinion.
If you want to turn this in to a serious discussion about receipt and tax protocols in Europe you're going to have to start narrowing down "Europe" to actual countries and explaining whether you asked for itemized receipts with each purchase. Until then this is very silly.
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u/doxjq Aug 28 '24
I mean don't get me wrong but whenever we go to America we always tip and follow the norm, but it's totally abnormal to us here in New Zealand. Here the minimum wage is nearly $23 and tipping just isn't a thing here. I'm pretty sure in most places around the world tipping isn't normal is it?
I agree it's weird to go somewhere where it is normal and not do it, but I absolutely hate the idea of it so I get where they're coming from.
I also hate how prices of shit on shelves in USA is shown without tax. Here in NZ everything is shown prices with tax