What is the center-left?

[u/TheGreenBehren]

Me and another user seem to have a disagreement over what the definition of center-left is.

• One person believes the center-left is about “bread-and-butter” economic issues like anti-trust laws and building factories, infrastructure, lowering deficit. The part of the Venn diagram where two parties intersect. It is inherently bipartisan by default, meaning you have “common sense common ground” conversations with republicans and actually pass laws.

• One person believes the center-left is about “social justice” issues like LGBTQA+ representation, ending gender pay gap, police reform and the neo-liberal free trade. Not full blown communism, but more of a social-democrat vibe.

Are there multiple definitions of the center-left? Social vs economic vs political compass

What is the difference between center-left and progressive left? How does one occupy the center?

Who are notable politicians of the center-left?

How does the defeat of Kamala Harris impact this definition and future of the center-left?

Happy thanksgiving! Hope your family political discussions are robust and informative. 🫡

[u/ApexAphex5]

Fundamentally being "centre-left" is working within the system, implementing moderate reforms to the market economy to favour labour as well as moderate liberal social reforms (like gay rights).

The true center-right is similar, except they want economic reforms to favour capital, and to maintain the status quo on social issues.

Everybody else is so far up their arse they aren't worth talking to.

[u/earthdogmonster]

I’ve run into this discussion a few times in this sub. It would seem to me like “far left”, and “progressive” are pretty much used interchangeably. I figured “center-left” meant left but more toward center, like a moderate/mainstream Democrat.

I’ve seen it used in this sub a few times by users who seem upset when other users of this sub are in favor of America backing their global allies. I think using the word “center” synonymously with “leftist” or “far left” it’s a confused definition.

[u/namey-name-name]

In what reality is neoliberal free trade a “social justice” issue? Should be up with the Econ issues in the first bullet.

But to answer your question, what it means to be center left depends on the point and time and country you’re talking about. In general the center left supports moderately socially liberal positions (acceptance of minorities and LGBTQIA+ groups is center left, but more radical positions like police abolition, critical race theory, land back, etc are traditionally associated with the left wing and far left) and market economics with government intervention when appropriate (social safety nets, regulation, etc but not to the point of nationalizing the full economy). So both economic and social issues define the center left in varying degrees.

I’d say that the biggest thing separating the center left and center right from the far left and far right, at least in western nations, is an acceptance of the liberal status quo (liberal democracy, individual rights, etc) and respect for institutions. Both the center left and center right generally share a lot of the same values with regards to respect for liberal institutions and support for broad ideas like equality under the law, so in that sense both operate within the same “liberal framework” of politics and governance. The difference is in how each desires to work within the institutions to create change in society (center left presidents for example may seek to create programs to help underrepresented groups) and how they interpret those broad ideas (center left and center right may interpret an idea like “freedom of religion” in different ways).

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/namey-name-name]

Neo-liberal “free” trade was flawed. It wasn’t the “free market” that Adam smith designed. It wasn’t “fair” trade. China doesn’t play by the same rules. They have slavery. We just outsourced the slavery and imported serfs. And anyone who is against this serfdom is accused by Dana Bash of supporting an antisemitic conspiracy theory. There is no intellectually honest discussion other than the Financial Times—everyone else just gaslights us.

While neo-liberal globalization, what I call Globalism 2.0, brought down the price of TVs, lowered conflict and ended “extreme” poverty…. It created inflation of everything, housing in particular. Neo-liberalism disenfranchised the white working class—not very bread and butter for most Americans. Not very cash-money, literally, cash is trash. Not only did they lose their job at the factory, but they can’t afford a house and their kids can’t even get into college because of quotas.

So moving forward, we have to adapt to what I call Globalism 3.0. First, we have to see the writing on the wall and acknowledge that 2016 was a software update to globalism—a referendum on neo-liberal “free” trade. Yeah, it was “free” because the slavery is free by comparison. There is no “free” lunch. It has a cost, but that cost was just externalized and abstracted. So now we have to not externalize and abstract variables of the math equation we are too lazy to solve.

[u/SailorOfHouseT-bird]

🍞 and 🧈

[u/FrostyFeet1926]

For me, being center left is being Liberal in the true sense of the word. I am socially left in the sense that I believe that all men/women are created equal, and, generally speaking, personal sovereignty comes before all else. It is the states job to assure that these ideals are upheld. I am fiscally liberal in the sense that I believe free market capitalism allows for enormous generation of wealth, but requires a state to redistribute that wealth in a reasonable fashion that leads to an unequal, but overall positive quality of life for the masses

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/FrostyFeet1926]

So where is the center part?

[u/FrostyFeet1926 → u/TheGreenBehren]

I suppose that may depend on the culture that is judging me, but you could argue I'm socially left but economically right

[u/earthdogmonster → u/TheGreenBehren]

I’d say center in the sense of “mainstream” left. If you have a spectrum of far-left (progressives), center-left (mainstream liberals), true moderates (swing voters), center-right (more traditional Republicans, pre Tea-Party), and far-right (MAGA/Tea Party).

Obviously you can slice and dice this even further (socialist/social democrat/libertarians/actual nazis) but for purposes of categorization for laypeople, you’ve now got 5 locations on a line if you just interpret it the way I am seeing it.

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/earthdogmonster]

So when you define “center” you’re looking at the “center of mass” of the entire left?

See, I always thought that center-left was the “center of mass” of the entire political compass. You know, a centrist. But who leans left on progressive tax, common sense regulation, green tech subsides and so on.

I thought center-left was synonymous with moderate-left. Is it actually not synonymous you’re saying?

[u/earthdogmonster → u/TheGreenBehren]

I’d say “moderate” is “center” and if you qualify it with “left” you are saying “moderate, leans left” or “left, leans moderate”. And the spectrum is always going to be a little fuzzy because everyone has some very specific pet issues of differences.

But from a horseshoes and hand grenades perspective I would say center-left looks similar if you look at the entire spectrum, or if you surgically remove the left half and put a pin somewhere toward the middle.

They like social welfare programs but also merit-based rewards. Maybe tax credits or some defined vouchers toward higher education, but not “free college for all”. They encourage human rights, but also value our long standing geopolitical relationships. They want to make positive changes in the system but have no interest in blowing it all up.

[u/CanadianPanda76]

Center left imho are just Liberals. That's it.

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/CanadianPanda76]

Wouldn’t that just be the left?

[u/CanadianPanda76 → u/TheGreenBehren]

If you go, left right moderate, yes?

But with the progressive wing a thing I think if it as liberal is centreleft and left is progressive wing. They being called liberals.

[u/DonSalaam]

There are two sides: left-wing and right-wing. Pick a side and don’t attack your own side. Not very complicated.

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/DonSalaam]

Isn’t center-left part of the grey area in between?

Is it possible that this “pick a side” is too black and white?

[u/fyhr100 → u/TheGreenBehren]

No, because there's literally only two sides in a two-party system. There's no secret third option besides not voting, and third party candidates is the same thing as not voting.

If you agree with a party stance mostly but want a few changes, you don't get that change by not voting for them, that is completely counterintuitive. You work within the system and try to affect change before or after the election. Anyone who says they're voting in "protest" of a particular party demonstrates that they don't really understand how democracies are supposed to work.

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/fyhr100]

So in your view, given this context, why did Kamala lose?

[u/tmason68 → u/TheGreenBehren]

Pick a side is correct in that you either seek progress (left) or not (right). As you move from center to progressive to socialism, the desire for change becomes more aggressive and on a wider range of issues.

We're all going in the same direction, but at varying speeds and some are going further than others.

The Right is very good with this. Not everyone

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/tmason68]

Yeah I guess the problem becomes how you define progress.

Some people may disagree on what policy positions are good in the long term. So as the center, okay, your job is to find those progressive ideals that republicans can get behind.

Like anti-trust laws. We are strengthening capitalism. Protecting the invisible hand. Sticking it to the big jerks, yes, but also protecting capitalism. It’s a win-win politically. Is that not center left?

[u/tmason68 → u/TheGreenBehren]

Exactly. Center left is trying to thread the needle.

It seems that when you start moving away from center left or right, there's less of a desire to compromise. People left of center lost it when Harris got endorsed by Cheney and others on the right because they felt she was selling out. Conversely, I think that center left would have been turned off if she'd leaned too heavily into progressivism.

One thing that comes to mind for me is the evolution of gay rights. The center left position at one point would have been that gays deserve respect but the idea of gay marriage was a hand wringer. In time, the idea of gay marriage worked its way from being radical to being progressive to its current level of acceptance, which I'd say is basically center left.

[u/TheGreenBehren → u/tmason68]

desire to compromise

Or collaborate, yes, I think that’s the defining feature of the center, mathematically speaking.

Can you still call yourself center left if you go around screaming “LALALALA ALL REPUBLICANS ARE NAZIS ELON MUSK IS ANTISEMTIIC RFK IS ANTISEMTIC AND CONSPIRITORIAL AND TULSI GABBARD IS A RUSSIAN STOOGE LALALALALA WE NEED SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EVERYONE AGAINST IT IS A NAZI LALALA”? Genuine question. Am I the asshole? Or do people who go around bashing former respected democrats and pushing them out of the party’s big tent not actually center left?

[u/tmason68 → u/TheGreenBehren]

The blessing and curse of center left is the desire to not offend. I wouldn't think of that rant as coming from the center. But cynicism is in vogue, so maybe I'm wrong.

[u/tmason68 → u/tmason68]

The problem we have is that those further left tend to discount those not going as far as they are as quickly as they like. This is the circular firing squad Obama talked about. It's why some people on the left chose to not support Harris.