r/canadaleft • u/Ok-Conversation6969 • Dec 08 '21
Canadian Content The great Canadian hypocrite.
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u/Booty0Eater69 Dec 08 '21
Or any other brown person. I guess up north racism is more toward indigenous, muslims, indians and other brown peoples while down south(grew up there) its more toward black people
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u/tonyespera Dec 08 '21
oh there's just as much antiblackness here too, just fewer black people (esp out west lol)
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Dec 08 '21
I can confirm. I remember being at the bar with a former friend (in Ontario), and at some point he says something like, "let's move, it's getting shady here," and I was like, "huh?" So he gestures around us and there are Black people near us. I was really bothered by the fact that he wouldn't even stand near Black people.
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u/itimetravelwell Dec 09 '21
Siri insert somesort of gif that captures "When the racism is extra bright" please.
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u/Fuzzy_Dunnlopp Dec 08 '21
Well it has to do with Canada's immigration history really. Most black people in Canada are either West Indian/Caribbean or immigrants from Africa, some are descendants of former slaves from the United States, but that isn't the majority.
Instead we were just like the UK, when you look at any former UK colony there are Chinese and Indian populations there that were brought as labourers.
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u/TheDrunkenWobblies Dec 08 '21
Shots fired at r/onguardforthee
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u/TheFinnstagator Dec 08 '21
Even in this subreddit. Let’s not act like leftist movements in Canada don’t also play into colonialism.
Also from what I’ve seen, Indigenous content is much more positively engaged with on r/onguardforthee than it is on r/Canada. Have you had bad experiences there?
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u/HomeKeyEndKey Dec 08 '21
r/onguardforthee depends on who gets to the comments first. if the racists get there first they control the narrative. r/canada is always racist. at least, that’s been my observation.
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u/blazeofgloreee Dec 08 '21
Dont' forget r/canadapolitics. That sub is dominated by posters who have a strong pretense of liberal "compassionate rationalism" but default to colonialist tropes as soon as indigenous people start standing up for themselves and their traditional ways of life and governance.
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u/itimetravelwell Dec 09 '21
Let's not forget "Canada's Capital" r/Toronto.
Thought let me hold my tongue before I'm banned again for calling the racists there cowards.
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u/swirldad_dds Turtle Island > Canada Dec 09 '21
Don't mention China or anything Chinese on r/Vancouver, shit will go south quick
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Dec 08 '21
r/Canada is weird. Whenever I make anti-racist or anti-Capitalist or anti-Liberal comments there, I get upvoted. But racist and awful things also get upvoted there. It's a weird, mixed subreddit when it comes to political and social positions.
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u/StanEngels Dec 09 '21
I'll give an example: The communist party's defence of Quebec nationalism is genocidal and racist and they have no right to call themselves a communist party if they continue to hold that line.
Now watch as some party members show up to insult everyone instead of offering any meaningful exchange.
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u/Outside_Large Dec 08 '21
It’s complicated, it’d help if our government actually took the truth and reconciliation stuff more seriously though. Canada’s indigenous peoples deserve more than lip service for what they’ve been through.
Racism will always be around, but at least we can try to acknowledge it and do better. Just be kind to everyone - it’s that simple
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Dec 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Dec 08 '21
What? I swear if you randomly stop me on the street to acknowledge my existence and try to "have a chat" with me just because I'm Indigenous I'm going to lose my shit. I already have cops doing that, I don't need white liberals doing it to, regardless of your well meaning intent.
We are also not more interesting or down to earth than any other ethnicity, that's just an irritating continuation of the noble savage archetype. We are individuals, some of us are interesting, others are not. Leave. Us. Alone.
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Dec 08 '21
Putting all canadians in the same bag, huh? Sounds like nationalism to me. Same as racism, just with a country instead of a race....
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Dec 08 '21
Lol. Nationalism is supporting your country and it's people first, no matter how awful and selfish it's actions are. This is like the opposite of Nationalism.
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u/StanEngels Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
That isn't nationalism either. Nationalism is a consciousness of a nation. To be a nationalist is to be a conscious member of your nation. This can take different forms depending on situation. For a Canadian to be a nationalist, it would mean to support Canadian imperialism and on-going genocide of the indigenous nations here. For indigenous people though nationalism would be a positive force as it would reject Canada's claim to their nation's land and people.
Edit: downvotes already of course. you could plug your ears, but if you want to learn more here are just a few reading suggestions:
- Frantz Fanon - The Wretched of the Earth
- Glen Coulthard - Red Skin White Masks
- Howard Adams - A Tortured People
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u/maxstronge Dec 09 '21
Chiming in to hopefully give this some more visibility (especially the reccomended reads, all three of which are excellent).
I think the part people are taking issue with in your comment is the Canadian nationalism = bad, indigenous nationalism = good. I think you could admit that that's a bit reductionist - nations are intersubjective entities and so 'nationalism' will not mean the same thing to each person. There are elements of the modern Canadian nation that are good (even if you have to look real hard) - being proud of those parts doesn't always mean you're endorsing the imperialist negatives.
The same applies to indigenous nationalism - framed as anti-imperialist, it's of course a positive thing. But like any real nation, there are elements of the national identity that are not worth being proud of. Blanket nationalism is never good unless the nation is perfect, which it never will be.
So 'nationalism' can't be reduced to good or bad, it's (as always) going to be more nuanced than that. But your definition of nationalism seems to be much more correct than several other commenters in this thread and I wanted to shout that out.
- former political science major
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u/_COREY_TREVOR Dec 08 '21
Reserve attempts to leave the traditional life and adopt a more civilized, western standard of living
They get set up either through bands or with govt help with basic infrastructure
Infrastructure falls into shambles
Band bitches to the feds about their current living situation
Feds come in and spend a fuck load of money and time rebuilding said infrastructure and training people on the rez to maintain it
Maintenance is never done and the funds allocated to it are embezzled/spent on new Escalades
rinse and repeat
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u/TheDrunkenWobblies Dec 08 '21
Shows you only have the maple washed version of events.
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u/maxstronge Dec 09 '21
Thanks for introducing me to 'maple-washed', will definitely be stealing that!
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u/Bradasaur Dec 08 '21
It's almost so egregious that maybe there's another aspect (or five) that you're missing........
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Dec 08 '21
It really isn't the same at all. Making it seem like it is is disingenuous
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Dec 08 '21
How is one country mistreating a race of people different from another country mistreating a race of people?
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Dec 08 '21
Black people in the US don't have special rights and protections. They are just like everyone else but treated differently by the judicial system and other institutions.
Indigenous Canadians have protections, rights and privilege's other Canadians do not have. Is it perfect? No. But it's nowhere near the same situation as in the US.
Comparing the two situations is a disservice to both.
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u/MAXSquid Dec 08 '21
Dear lord; reservations? Residential Schools? The Indian Act? Sterilization? Being experimented on, like studies on malnutrition? Couldn't vote until the 60's? Had to give up status to serve in the Canadian military? Constant development on unceded territories? Banning of political processes such as the potlatch? Irreversible loss of culture and language? Persisting, incredibly destructive social, political, and health issues that plague Indigenous communities today? The "special" rights you speak of are half-assed measures to make the Canadian government seem less genocidal.
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Dec 08 '21
Basically all that is in the past. Indigenous Canadians have all the rights of other Canadians. They can come to the city to find employment and opportunities. They also have reservations which are for them.
I don't support development on private property by people that don't own the property. Framing it as "unceded territory" is where you lose my support. Is it their private property? If so, say that.
The fact is, Canadian indigenous can enjoy the benefits of being Canadian and being an indigenous Canadian. I only get the benefit of being Canadian.
Black American's are just American's that get the shitty end of the stick all the time.
It's not the same at all.
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u/Irisvalken ACAB Dec 08 '21
Its not "all in the past" at all you privileged loser. Don't fucking talk like you understand things when you clearly do not.
Maybe if you were ripped out of your home by rcmp as a child and sexually assaulted in residential schools you would understand why they are still fighting for justice.
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Dec 08 '21
The last residential school closed a quarter of a century ago.
George Floyd was last year.
Not the same at all.
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u/Irisvalken ACAB Dec 08 '21
And the rcmp are raiding unarmed indigenous camps with snipers and arresting elders like 2 weeks ago. Maybe you should wake the fuck up.
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Dec 08 '21
Arresting people and killing them are completely different.
It's hyperbole at this point.
Not the same at all.
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u/Ok-Conversation6969 Dec 08 '21
Do you know anything about Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women? That's happening today, current news right now.
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Dec 08 '21
These are not the actions of a non-racist country.
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Dec 09 '21
I read the first section of that article and right off the bat it mentions they failed to verify some status ID.
I have no idea what that has to do with a bank account. But I'm sure if they had the proper documentation everything would have been fine.
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u/MAXSquid Dec 08 '21
Oh boy, so much to unpack, maybe you should read more honest Canadian history. Unceded territory is not private territory, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of Indigenous cultures. Traditionally, Indigenous People's did not "own" land, but rather governed territories to ensure its protection. That is where the whole hereditary chief and elected councils have friction. A hereditary chief's job is to maintain the territory and its resources to guarantee the success of its people and culture for generations to come. Whereas the reserve system was forced upon Indigenous Peoples to further align them with Canada's political system, to the point that their own systems were banned. Unceded refers to land that was never signed over to the Canadian government via a treaty, but it is also land that the Canadian government often doesn't recognize as Indigenous controlled. Indigenous culture is a lived culture, removing people and putting them on reserves without access to traditional territory actually erases much of the culture.
You have to ask yourself one simple question: do the issues that plague Indigenous Peoples today come from generations of systemic racism and abuse from the governments of Canada, or are these issues that are more or less specific to Indigenous Peoples brought on by themselves, and not a result of a culture of racism and oppression?
And, if you think that the lived experience of Indigenous Peoples in Canada are infinitely different from those of black Americans, then you are not paying attention whatsoever. Indigenous Peoples make up more than 30% of Canada's prison population while representing around 5% of the overall population.
Honestly, I could go on and on and on, but you already hilariously view Indigenous Peoples as peoples with some sort of special privilege, which clearly ignores our colonial past and present, and the systemic issues that exist today because of it.
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u/Thumper86 Dec 08 '21
Jesus Christ... really?
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Dec 08 '21
I love all the hate my reply is getting. So much objective facts being thrown my way. /s
Let me guess, you supported the vandals that tore down a statue of Egerton Ryerson?
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u/Thumper86 Dec 08 '21
You seriously think that the problems black folks face in the states are that different than indigenous people here? You think our courts and law enforcement treat natives the same way they’d treat white people? If anything I’d say that in large metropolitan centres natives have it worse in Canada than black people so in the US. Not that I should be making a competition out of relative hardship. I just mean to say that the prejudice here saturates the whole society.
Edit: and yeah, I do support those that toppled the statue. Can you explain why you don’t?
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Dec 08 '21
If anything I’d say
Too bad what you say means jack shit. Objective facts are all that matter here.
The dumbass vandals that tore down the statue know nothing about Egerton. He was no monster, he learned ojibway so he could communicate and teach ("I must now acquire a new language, to teach a new people."), he lived alongside indigenous (He rolled up his sleeves, worked beside them in the fields, ate and lived with them. He gained their respect.), he was even given an honourary Chief title (At a council meeting in December, 1826, they gave him the Ojibway name of one of their deceased chiefs: "Cheechock" or "Chechalk." The name meant "Bird on the Wing.")
So you support a bunch of reactionary morons that cannot see past their own nose? Good for you buddy!
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u/Thumper86 Dec 08 '21
Objective facts are all that matters? You started this discussion saying that black people in the states are treated poorly by the system, then said that natives here have the same rights as anyone else.
Spoiler alert, so do black folks in the states. Just because they have the same rights doesn’t mean they’re treated the same. You argued against your own point in your first comment, moron.
I didn’t know that history of Ryerson. Very interesting. I’m sure he was seen as a great man in his time. In this time though he is seen as the primary architect of a school system that committed genocide. So maybe let’s not keep his statues around to celebrate a guy who has become monstrous as society evolved.
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Dec 08 '21
No, I said Canadian indigenous have rights, protections and privileges above those of a non-indigenous Canadians. Black American's have just the same rights as all other Americans....they just get the shit end of the stick all the time.
So moron, please try to read what I say.
Again, only reactionary morons think badly of Egerton Ryerson. He was NOT "the primary architect" of the residential school system. He was a leader in education in Canada at the time. The Canadian government was setting these schools up, not Egerton. Egerton was asked to provide guidance on the educational part of the system. He was not the architect of the abuse.
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u/Thumper86 Dec 08 '21
....they just get the shit end of the stick all the time.
Same with natives here? You seem to have some real resentment towards First Nations in this country for some reason.
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u/Thumper86 Dec 08 '21
Also, you clearly know more about Ryerson than I do, he does seem like an interesting and complicated man. I see the residential school system wasn’t introduced until after his death, but he was very influential in its design. Sounds like he strongly believed that freedom of religion and the integrity of the family unit was important for building a strong society. Yet his ideal version of indigenous education involves boarding children away from their families, forcing them to speak only English and worship only Christian gods.
So... I feel like my previous comments on his statue are still valid even if I was a little more ignorant half an hour ago.
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