r/boringdystopia • u/Cowicidal • 3d ago
Healthcare Challenges š„ Those that made Bernie Sanders impossible, made Luigi Mangione inevitable
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u/jizmaticporknife 2d ago
100% this. Iāve been telling people all the time that you shoved status quo in our faces when we told you we were struggling mightily so you got fascism in return. These fucking liberals still whine and cry about why didnāt anyone show up to vote and telling us how theyāre going to be smug and say āI told you soā when things get bad, which tells me how fascist a liberal actually is.
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1d ago
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/jizmaticporknife 1d ago
I suppose I separate leftist and liberal. These days liberals are about the same as blue dog democrats in my mind and those of us who went to Bernieās rallies during his campaign and showed up to the primaries just to vote for him are more leftist by nature.
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u/nuremberp 1d ago
You claim to be a "far left liberal"
This tells me you do not know what you are talking about
The liberals are the ones who made bernie sanders impossible
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u/norar19 5h ago
It wasnāt just the liberals. Iām sure the republicans also had a hand in this too
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u/nuremberp 1h ago
Bernie was never given an opportunity to run against republicans - I am not sure what you are implying here?
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 2d ago
Agred but more like Bernie before he outed himself as a zio
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u/I_Won-TheBattleOLife 2d ago
We should stop purity testing people who are 99% on our side imo.
You need to leave room for them to take some political positions that we disagree with. They might be taking that stance for political reasons, i.e., if I don't take this position, I won't win any elections.
I think we need more progressives in office, and if that means they have to play nice with this or that demographic, let them. Yes, we should criticize them, but this country is full of stupid and immoral voters. The left also faces the right-wing propaganda industrial complex.
Given the difficulty of getting leftists elected in the first place, I don't think we should be so quick to assume that we really hear what they think about every issue. Unfortunately, they always have to run a political cost/benefit analysis. The ones who don't end up losing, and neither us nor the Palestinians are any better off for it.
This country is fucked in so many ways, yet many people still have conservative attitudes. People fear change. In my opinion, the right thing for progressives to do is to say whatever the hell gets them elected, then govern with progressive principles.
To get elected in this country you need to win over the uneducated masses. They have been heavily propagandized and conditioned to reject leftist thought in every area. We need to walk through that minefield very carefully, drawing attention to nothing but what we will do for them and their families: childcare, healthcare, regulation of big business, end of monopolies, etc.
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 2d ago
A purity test? You mean complicity in genocide? You're clearly not a leftist dude.
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u/ClassicAF23 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bernieās position is that Israel has a right to defend itself from Hamas but not to go to war with civilian population and wage campaigns of starvation. And not to attack news organizations that are critical of Israel. He actively pressured state department to investigate whether or not Israel had committed war crimes and to adhere to treaties to stop supplying Israel if it is, the most feasible avenue of cutting aid. He has been vocally opposed to AIPAC money threatening to unseat any Democrat who tries to make a stand against Israel. And he was one of only 19 senators to vote opposing Israeli aid.
Thatās an ally. And heās all the more valuable because the was born and raised Jewish.
The one thing he hasnāt done is call it genocide, but he repeatedly calls it war crimes. And honestly I get it. Thereās certainly a war on the civilian population but at the moment thatās not the same as what is going on in Sudan right now or what happens under Pol Pot, or any other effort to have a concerted military effort for the extermination of a minority group. Israel has the military capabilities to pull it off full extermination, and they are not, Theyāre doing what may be called a ācultural genocideā in terms of a long term effort to remove former Palestinians from their land and replace them with modern Israelis and crushing Palestinian identity and any hopes of statehood with violence and starvation to force compliance to Israeli authoritarian control over West Bank and Gaza. But I get that distinction in wanting to reserve genocide for ethnic cleansing we are seeing in Darfur now, while viewing Gaza as still being in the stage of war crimes used against civilian population that must also be opposed, but is not a concerted extermination attempt by a military absolutely capable of that.
But when there are only 19 senators opposing Israel, you donāt strike down one of the only allies you have. You go after the people fully committed to it or the people who make it politically infeasible to oppose.
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u/nothappening111181 2d ago
Heās done ābetterā but when the bar is in Hellā¦ itās not a war.!itās genocide. It has to be like Pol Pot, again circling back to where the bar is located smdh
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u/I_Won-TheBattleOLife 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't get the obsession with language.
They just laid out how Bernie has opposed the genocide in every possible way given his votes and positions... why does it matter what he personally calls it?
We've been calling it a genocide as have many others. Does that make those susceptible to the right wing propaganda machine opposed? No, they don't care what we call it either. They will support genocide and war crimes and cruelty and starvation and brutal subjugation no matter what.
Progressives need to win elections. To do that, they have to make political calculations regarding the language that they use because they HAVE to win the votes of people who are susceptible to the right-wing narratives spun by their industrial propaganda complex.
We make that so much harder for progressives by being outraged at the terminology they use INSTEAD of looking at their voting record.
Can you address that point? Do you not care if they lose an election to a right-winger or corporate Democrat who calls Israeli war crimes "anti-terrorism self defense" and votes to give them more funding? Put away the dictionary, it isn't doing us or the Palestinians any good.
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 2d ago
Thank you. We must demand better and stop letting our politicians get away with the bare minimum. Children are being slaughtered. Enough is fckn enough.
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u/Duckyboi10 2d ago
Although heās a Zionist, he at least would have put in a cease fire and ended the genocide.
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 2d ago
Yea sure, tell that to yourself
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u/Annoying_cat_22 2d ago
Wtf are you talking about? He supports an arms embargo on Israel. Are you only gonna support a president that will bomb Israel out of existence?
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 2d ago
He has send at every chance that Israel has the right to defend itself which is untrue under international law. He refuses to call it a genocide. That's horrible
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u/Annoying_cat_22 1d ago
So saying "ethnic cleansing" instead of "genocide", and that a year+ ago he said Israel has the right to defend itself as part of criticising it and saying it needs to stop is "horrible". ok buddy, good luck voting for no one ever again.
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u/Alternative_Belt_389 1d ago
I don't even live there genius
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u/Annoying_cat_22 1d ago
I'm sure that with that level of scrutiny, no politician will be enough.
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u/No-Illustrator4964 2d ago
This is a cute saying but no one made Bernie impossible except him, otherwise he'd have won primary states in 08 and not only caucus states.
Cute, but now how primaries work.
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u/JesuswasQueer 2d ago
I guess I'll take credit where credit is due.