r/autism • u/Ok_Abbreviations_427 • Apr 21 '23
Educator “Case 1” for autism is still alive!?
I just learned that our understanding of autism today didn’t start developing until the 60’s even though the term was coined in 1911. It used be a diagnosis for people experiencing hallucinations and delusions associated with schizophrenia.
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u/sirlurksalotaken Apr 21 '23
Great documentary on PBS called "in a different key"
It was focused on this fine gentleman and his success.
It is a great documentary.
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u/NinjaMonkey4200 Apr 21 '23
I have a book by the same name, which is about the history of autism. The first part is about Donald Triplett, and it is also great.
It was written by John Donvan and Caren Zucker.
Is there any chance the book and film are related to one another in some way?
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u/sirlurksalotaken Apr 21 '23
I would suspect so.
The documentary also includes others who are autistic and some of the societal issues around diagnosis.
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u/CrimsonKnight_004 Apr 22 '23
I read the book too! Very insightful. I have yet to watch the documentary, but if it’s a fraction as good as the book, then I really need to watch it.
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u/MightyDragoon453 Autistic Apr 27 '23
Yeah same people, they also did a podcast on Donald's life which is fairly good it's on audible.
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Apr 21 '23
Someone please reach out to Case 1 and have him do an AMA.
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u/Chonkin_GuineaPig Apr 21 '23
He should be featured on SBSK honestly
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Apr 21 '23
I'd rather see NPR or some other "government-funded media" pick up that story, so that it reaches a broader i.e. neurotypical demographic (and agitates the regressives who loathe public radio/media.)
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u/fillmewithmemesdaddy Autistic Adult Apr 22 '23
Why can't we have both
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Apr 22 '23
Fair question; I'm not as familiar with SBSK but admit I'm wary of any advocacy group/site that has gained momentum through "family-oriented" efforts.
The continuing dearth of support for autistic adults suggests that all the collective effort of these parenting-related organizations hasn't changed this culture's attitude towards us at all, which is as good as saying, "You're on your own, kid," to every autistic person 18 and over.
So, yeah, they have a large social media following; is it supporting us or exploiting us? I'm as yet undecided.
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u/fillmewithmemesdaddy Autistic Adult Apr 22 '23
Honestly, I'm not like an avid watcher of the SBSK channel, but I'll watch a video here and there. I will say that from what I've seen, he's a good ally. Most of the talking/communication is done by the people he's interviewing and his input is usually just questions for the people to answer. I notice that when he's interviewing a disabled person with a parent/caregiver present, he gives both an opportunity to answer instead of just one answering for both. I also notice he treats the kids like kids and the adults like adults. He'll tell the kids how happy he is that they are here and how he hopes they'll be friends forever which isn't infantilism because he's saying it to elementary school children. I actually worried a bit that he would be infantilising or patronizing to the adults he interviews but it's a different vibe. He also asks for consent to sit next to people which I liked.
I could be unaware that he may have a child sex ring or that he abuses dogs as I don't quite know the guy. Like I said, I'm a casual watcher. But what I see is some pretty good allyship and using a platform for good. However, you may want to stay away from the comments because some speak of the disabled people like they just watched a video of a cute puppy doing tricks
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Apr 22 '23
Appreciate the objective analysis, thank you! Honestly, that is (or ought to be) the whole point of online discourse, as far as I'm concerned.
As for the site/channel, I'm pleased to know that it would seem interviews are handled well; what makes me skeptical of any online content is how it's being monetized, e.g. which advertisers are involved, where does the revenue go, etc. Our time as human beings is finite so I try to be conscientious about where I choose to direct my attention.
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u/fillmewithmemesdaddy Autistic Adult Apr 22 '23
Makes perfect sense to be weary! I do remember their channel got comments banned and that there was a HUGE Change.org petition to get them back, but I don't think they have ads on their videos either (though that was secondhand info and I use AdBlock, so I could be very wrong in that. I just don't have the time to check for myself though)
In all honesty, I meant to link this gif when I said my original comment for the meme/nostalgia but I forgot lmao. It's interesting how a failed attempt at a joke can spark an interesting conversation
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u/DarkLuxio92 Neurologically Inconsistent. Level 2 autistic. Apr 22 '23 edited Apr 22 '23
The comments got banned because YouTube messed up. They've since been reinstated and it's a super wholesome community down there. Chris and Alyssa, who run SBSK, are amazing people. They interview a huge range of people with all sorts of disabilities, neurodivergences and mental health issues, and handle each one with sensitivity, dignity and take great care to interact on each individuals' own terms. I love that channel.
Edit: for those interested here is an interview that they did recently with a non speaking autistic man with high support needs.
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u/BleghMeisterer Diagnosed as an adult Apr 21 '23
Really tells you about how little autism has actually been researched for and how much more work is going to have to be put into it before autistic people stop suffering just because they're not neurotypical
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u/Ok_Abbreviations_427 Apr 21 '23
I really thought it’s a good argument against “everyone has autism now”. Because we are just finally coming to an actual consensus on what it actually is!!
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u/Tiffsquared Autistic Adult Apr 21 '23
Yeah, and also, general misogyny and misinformation caused a lot of people to not be diagnosed earlier than adulthood.
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u/Live-Drummer-9801 Apr 21 '23
I hope he makes it to 100. From what I’ve heard he’s living his best life, driving around in his Cadillac, playing golf and having dinner with his brother and his brother’s wife.
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u/ZariahX3 Apr 21 '23
The true creator of the Autism Spectrum that we know and use today:
https://www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/history-forgot-woman-defined-autism/
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u/HumanDrinkingTea Apr 22 '23
Some, including Steve Silberman in his book “Neurotribes,” blamed Kanner, suggesting that he had lured Frankl away from the Vienna clinic
"Lured" is an interesting way to say "saved from being murdered by Nazis."
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u/StockingDummy Apr 22 '23
Really shows how international conflicts screw common people over.
Her research was groundbreaking, but it got covered up by other researchers because that'd mean admitting the Russkies had one over on them.
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u/jtuk99 Autistic Adult Apr 22 '23
“Historians are beginning to ponder why it took nearly a century for the DSM-5 — published in 2013 after years of debate — to arrive back at something so close to Sukhareva’s list. “
Back in reality Schizoid Personality Disorder has been an established diagnosis for a very long time, all that was missing was diagnosis in children.
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u/Erebus172 Diagnosed 2021 Apr 21 '23
Yup, and Kanner said he was autistic because his affluent white parents were too invested in his wellbeing.
People talk about Asperger being an evil guy but Kanner was the one that built the stereotype of autism that we're all trying to break today.
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u/99BottlesOfBass Apr 21 '23
I mean, Asperger was a literal Nazi. Kanner just sounds like a bonehead who didn't really understand what he was studying. Not saying he's blameless, but to compare that with Asperger who signed off on murdering "defective" kids seems a little extreme.
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u/Erebus172 Diagnosed 2021 Apr 21 '23
Oh yeah, that isn't meant as defense of Asperger. I'm just trying to spread the knowledge lesser known but just as evil people. Kanner wasn't a bonehead. He continued to double down on his racist and sexist ideologies long after studies had proven him wrong.
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u/Without-a-tracy Apr 21 '23
just as evil
I'm not defending Kanner in any way, but I'm not a huge fan of people saying So-And-So person is "just as evil" as literal Nazis.
"Doubling down on racist and sexist ideologies" isn't as evil as "active participant in the intentional and calculated slaughter of millions of people", imo.
It might be because I'm Jewish, Queer AND Autistic and am particularly touchy about Nazism, but something about saying these two men are "equally as evil" definitely makes me bristle a bit.
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u/peanutpoopie Apr 21 '23
I think it's such an important thing to remember that it does not BEGIN with the mass extermination of any certain group of people.. it begins with violent claims like OP mentions against a group of people being marginalized and already marginalized which leads to the violence and oppression and in the worst of all cases slaughter of countless people..
P.s I am also Queer Autistic and am not practicing myself but have jewish heritage !! ♡ strength and solidarity my friend!! Also fuck nazis
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u/Indorilionn diagnosed asperger's Apr 21 '23
No, it has little to do with your position. you're absolutely and unequivocally right. Nothing is as evil as a literal Nazi. People need to learn to critique and call out bad stuff without going to the superlative of anti-humanism.
Signed autistic, queer an German. With great-uncles who died near Kyiv in 1941, who have no grave on which I could piss.
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u/akiraMiel Apr 22 '23
There are things/people/ideologies as evil as nazis were. Many groups of people have been methodically killed of and not all of the culprits had the exact same ideologies as nazis did. But we're losing the point of the original comment so I'll leave it at that.
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u/Indorilionn diagnosed asperger's Apr 22 '23
And I'll leave it at a simple no, you're wrong. National Socialism was and is not "just" genocide.
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u/Unlearned_One Parent of Autistic child Apr 22 '23
Nothing is as evil as a literal Nazi
I could think of several counterexamples.
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u/Indorilionn diagnosed asperger's Apr 22 '23
Such as?
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u/Unlearned_One Parent of Autistic child Apr 22 '23
Vlad the Impaler and Christopher Columbus, along with most people involved in the Atlantic slave trade I think. Jim Jones for sure. Leopold II of Belgium. I don't know for sure how they would all stack up against all of the Nazis, but they're definitely more evil than someone like Hans Asperger.
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u/Indorilionn diagnosed asperger's Apr 22 '23
Yeah. No to all of them. Axiomatically.
Being a cruel and sadistic individual is one thing, as is partaking in slaving for personal gain. All of these are evil that is barely graspable, Leopold especially. But partaking and facilitating the industrialization of genocide is something else entirely. An ideology that sees you "succeeding" in exterminating every human life you categorize as unworthy of life or exterminating as many as you can before you fall - that was never before and never after. The NSDAP took direly needed resources from the front to supply Auschwitz. Because murdering Jews and other "unworthy life" was more important than the war.
Evil without political motivation is... in a way "just" policable crime.
The contemporary geopolitical landscape after National Socialism simply does not allow for an evil that's even somewhat coming close to that. You do see glimpses of the mindset that is needed to facilitate something like this in some people - but they lack the means to make this reality.
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u/Interest-Desk AuDHD Apr 22 '23
Asperger was a literal Nazi
So were the scientists that put man on moon and many of the scientists that first categorised Gender Dysphoria. A lot of important work comes from countries and people that are beyond detestable.
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u/EnIdiot Apr 22 '23
And he blamed the mothers as well. Autism, Kanner claimed, was cause by “refrigerator moms” who were cold and unemotional.
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u/CrimsonKnight_004 Apr 22 '23
Iirc, that was contested as being a misquote from him taken out of context, he would later say he did not agree with that, and those who knew him said such a sentiment was far off from the context of how he interacted with the parents of his patients. Hard to know his thoughts on it for sure, but if he ever held that belief, it at least seems like he recanted it later.
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u/EnIdiot Apr 22 '23
IIRC, Kanner was heavily influenced by Freud’s legacy (not only did he come from Austria but he got most of his direct psychiatric training in a state hospital in the Dakotas in the 1920 when this philosophy would have been dominant). I tend to chalk his statement up to his times and his training.
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u/Erebus172 Diagnosed 2021 Apr 22 '23
I tend to chalk his statement up to his times and his training.
Couldn't the same be said for Asperger?
I'm of the opinion that shouldn't be a valid excuse for either of them.
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u/EnIdiot Apr 22 '23
Well, without their failings, we’d have no awareness of the spectrum to begin with. Sometimes we have to have failures, including human evil, in order to find truth. It’s not excusing them or their behavior, but it is the truth.
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u/shadowlols Autistic Adult Apr 21 '23
The more you read on the history of Autism and the two researchers the weirder things get, kanner and Asperger were both Austrian, both studied autistic children at the same time, in buildings designed by the same guy on different continents.
Kanner also ended up knowing one of Asperger's assistants who fled Nazi Austria however claimed to have never heard of Aspergers research into the exact same thing (Aspergers work didn't gain as much traction in the US due to Aspergers publishing in Austrian, which meant only Austrian readers would likely bother reading it at the time)
While Aspergers had to sign a pledge to hitler due to nazi occupation and did send children to their deaths to keep himself on as a researcher he actually did try to find things the children would excel at and took in poorer children as well, Kanner (while not nazi levels) was still not that great, his original definition of autism was fairly far off but that can be explained with the fact he primarily only saw the children of wealthy families.
Some of the above may be wrong but I believe most of it is right, if I'm not right someone feel free to correct me
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u/ekkostone Apr 21 '23
Small correction, but austrian isn't a language. They speak german in Austria
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u/StockingDummy Apr 22 '23
I mean, they speak the Austrian dialect of German, which to my understanding sounds about as close to German-German as Boomhauer from King of the Hill sounds to someone from New York.
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u/AudioDoge Apr 21 '23
his original definition of autism was fairly far off
He used the term "autistic psychopathy"
send children to their deaths to keep himself on as a researcher he actually did try to find things the children
He took part in a selection of patients aimed at separating the "uneducable" from those who could become German citizens. Although he was not directly responsible for their death, he chose 35 children whom he considered to be "uneducable"
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u/Social_Scholar Apr 21 '23
Yeah, the book "In a Different Key" is excellent too, and goes into the history of how the understanding of autism developed. For a long time, because of a man named Bettelheim claiming to be a Freudian psychoanalyst (he had a degree in art history), people thought that autism was caused by unloving mothers. Parents of autistic children were outright harassed for years before actual scientists studied it and disproved that theory. Ugh.
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Apr 21 '23
Patient zero, maybe they can find a cure
(My attempt at humor since there is no cure and that’s not how autism works lol)
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u/rae_is_not_okay imagine me not looking into your eyes 🙈 Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23
He was from Mississippi??? As a Mississippian I just can’t believe that kind of progress happened here.
Edit: I mean‚ assuming it happened in Mississippi. But still‚ seeing Mississippi in history like this is very shocking to me.
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u/devoid0101 Apr 21 '23
And only in the past decade are we really getting into the science of neurodiversity. We’re pioneers, lucky us. Age 53 diagnosed a month ago.
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u/RPsgiantballs Apr 21 '23
Really wasn’t even thought about in schools until 1980
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u/dw87190 Apr 21 '23
Australian schools never cared much in the 2000s either, always pushing for either Attention Deficit related diagnoses to get autistic kids drugged and "easier to control", or Oppositional Defiance Disorder diagnoses which would let teachers punish autistic kids more severely without Education Queensland investigation
Not that any Australian governing body would ever admit to this...
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u/Fragrant-Education-3 Apr 23 '23
Just a quick question do you have any articles on this? I am currently researching autism within the Australian educational system and what you have said would be very interesting to look into a bit closer.
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u/dw87190 Apr 23 '23
I've never been able to find much in the way of documentation, just my memories TBH
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u/BobBelcher2021 Apr 22 '23
I love that his name is Donald T., LOL
Also he looks like Dave from Wendy’s
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u/Madigan37 Apr 22 '23
This is why I laugh everytime someone is like "wow there are so many more autistic people now". No, there are the same number of autistic people, neurotypicals have just become more aware of us. And, to be clear, I believe that we have always known that there are a large number of autistic people; I would be quite surprised if the trend of an "increasing" number of autistic people stops anytime soon.
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u/Konradleijon Apr 21 '23
There is a podcast on him
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u/WritingNerdy Apr 21 '23
Thanks, I’ll look for it!
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u/Kurisuchein Asperger's Apr 21 '23
The one I listened to is called "Autism's First Child", and the bonus episode (which I haven't listened to) appears to be an interview with John Donvan and Caren Zucker, who are mentioned elsewhere. I recommend the series!
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u/Kribble118 Apr 22 '23
Wow that's really cool to know! Weird to know how short of time we've really known about Autism
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u/Odd-Joke5816 Jul 10 '23
RIP Donald Triplett guy truly paved the way
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u/averageredditor546 AuDHD Jul 23 '23
Just heard about this today when I saw that a preview of his wikipedia page said was instead of is.
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u/WritingNerdy Apr 21 '23
Oooh what’s his special interest?
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u/eekspiders Level 1 autistic adult Apr 21 '23
According to his Wikipedia:
Donald Triplett was born on September 8, 1933, to Beamon and Mary Triplett in Forest, Mississippi. Initially, Donald was a deeply introverted child who did not respond to his parents' gestures or voices. His language was unusual, he did not play with other children, and he seemed distant from others. Triplett was institutionalized at three years of age, but his parents pulled him out one year later. His father, Beamon, described him as socially withdrawn but interested in number patterns, music notes, letters of the alphabet, and U.S. president pictures. At the age of 1, his father recalled, "he could hum and sing many tunes accurately." His parents had great difficulty in getting him to eat, and watching other children eating candy or ice cream did not seem to tempt him. By the age of 2, he had the ability to recite the 23rd Psalm in the Old Testament and memorized 25 questions and answers from some unspecified Presbyterian catechism (likely either the Westminster Larger or Shorter Catechism).
He was also interested in creating musical chords. He was very interested in rhymes and would answer questions with only one word, usually "yes" or "no." At this age, he developed a very intense interest in spinning blocks, pans and other round objects and a dislike for tricycles and swings. He was initially uninterested in slides but began to play on them when he was alone. He had many meltdowns and was afraid of being spanked. He was however, unable to associate his meltdowns with the punishment. He displayed echolalia and had trouble with remembering pronouns, often using "you" to refer to himself and "I" to refer to the person he was speaking to. When entering a room, he went to the toys right away ignoring everyone else in the room, including other children and a Santa Claus actor his father had hired. His mother had difficulty with getting him to look at her.
When the Tripletts visited the Harriet Lane Home in October 1938 to meet with Leo Kanner, he was eventually diagnosed with autism. Donald had multiple visits, but when he returned he did not even look at the three physicians present, even though two remembered him from the previous visit. He instead headed to the desk to handle papers and books. Kanner started conversations to view his "obsessive nature." He also asked him subtraction questions to which Donald peculiarly replied "I'll draw a hexagon."
When he returned home, his behavior seemingly improved and he learned to play simple tunes on the piano. He showed better concentration and responded more clearly to his environment and other people. However, he still had autistic meltdowns (referred to at the time as "temper tantrums" when there was very little understood about ASD) and displayed some disconcerting behavior such as standing on tables, putting food in his hair, chewing on paper and putting house keys in the drain. He learned fifteen words from an encyclopedia and repeated them over and over without context. He continued to not look at people when talking or use expressive gestures. He communicated only when he needed something. His interest dissipated once he was given or told what he needed. He became interested in categorizing films and Time magazine issues by date of publication despite having little interest in the actual contents.
As an adult, he went on to get a degree in French and work at his hometown bank. In his spare time, he learned to drive and likes to travel the world.
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u/Mistaken_Pizza Look at this cool stick i found 🌲 Apr 22 '23
First thing imma ask him is what was his first stim? Patient #1 deserves credit for inventing a stim.
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u/CuriousRelish Apr 23 '23
This really adds a strong, concrete example of our knowledge that some conditions that have recently seemed to explode were simply very poorly understood due to lack of time to research.
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u/jaobodam Seeking Diagnosis Apr 21 '23
Autism was first diagnosed and studied during world war 2, why do you think a Nazi came up with Aspergers diagnoses ?
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u/Tiffsquared Autistic Adult Apr 21 '23
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757918/
No, people thought it was a form of schizophrenia earlier than that. “Aspergers” came around as a label for autistic people who would be “useful” in concentration camps.
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Apr 22 '23
Asperger’s was coined in the 1980s by Lorna Wing, to refer to autistic people who spoke grammatically and were not socially aloof. It was named after Hans Asperger, but the term Asperger Syndrome was not used by the nazis. Hans Asperger used the term autistic psychopathy to refer to his patients.
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u/SealaterAlligator Apr 21 '23
The Audfather