r/antiwork • u/Wise-External-8310 • 2d ago
Rant š”š¢ I love when a recruiter contacts you, then tries to make you feel bad when you ask about salary...
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u/530_Oldschoolgeek 2d ago
I don't get people like this.
They act like asking about the pay is the worse thing in the world.
I've ran into a few of these types in my time on this world, and my response has always been the same:
"I work for one reason and one reason only: TO GET PAID. If I didn't need money, I wouldn't work."
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u/runvus2 2d ago
I was at a training with 50+ people, we all had to say our name and reasons for working there. I was the only one that said money and I was so confusedwhy everyone was looking at me crazy. Hate the corporate world, so lame.
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u/midnghtsnac 2d ago
Because we are groomed to lie and act like we aren't driven by pay but instead by some unquestionable thirst for greatness in our field of choice.
That's why CEOs earn so little compared to their actual worth to the corporations they run like a Captain sailing a ship.
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
My attitude to people that have z I work for the third third greatness or some 9ther shit is OK give me your paycheque then since you are not money motivated. This is why I like sales, they look for money motivated people quite often.
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u/Weekly-Mall7126 1d ago
Yeah, companies are allowed to be ran for profit but somehow you're supposed to be a neoliberal udarnik who'll work for the sake of it.
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u/DrTwitch 2d ago
God forbid the "labour MARKET" operates like, you know, a market.
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u/nukedmylastprofile 1d ago
Right? Markets work by advertising a price and then negotiating with those buying the product.
In this case the product is your labour, but they re afraid to even consider telling you what they value that labour at before wasting your time.
How about fucking no41
u/FoxDenDenizen 2d ago
I am selling a product, my time and skill, why the fuck don't I get to know how much you're going to pay me for my product. The company trying to hire(/buy) me doesn't sell their products without knowing what people will pay why should I?
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
They act like asking about the pay is the worse thing in the world.
It's because if they had to admit how low their pay was no one would apply for their shitty job, so they play manipulation games instead of growing the balls to tell the manager the pay is too low.
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u/530_Oldschoolgeek 1d ago
Makes me glad that in California, they legally have to post the pay range of any job in ads.
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u/scaratzu 1d ago
Same reason PUA's "neg" women. If they aren't going to let you degrade them and put them down, you want to exclude them immediately so you can focus your time on the ones who are vulnerable enough to suffer your abusive behavior.
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u/Wawel-Dragon 1d ago
"I work for one reason and one reason only: TO GET PAID. If I didn't need money, I wouldn't work."
Ahh, the good old "I jump for cash, bitch" response.
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u/mikareno 1d ago
Exactly. And knowing up front whether or not your expectations and the company's are even in the same ballpark saves everyone time.
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u/530_Oldschoolgeek 1d ago
You are not kidding. Reposting one of my experences:
I recently had a worldwide firm contact me about employment.
54 miles away, one way.
For $17.50 per hour (California)
I told them flat out given my credentials and experience level, and the fact I could walk into any fast food joint and get paid $2.50 more with zero experience, the lowest I would take for such a job was $24 per hour, plus an additional $5.00 per hour plus mileage to and from the site, and if I was to be required to work nights and/or weekends, an additional $2.00 per hour on top of that.
Never heard back, and I didn't expect to either.
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u/mikareno 1d ago
More of us need to speak up for ourselves. If no one works for low wages, they'll have to adjust.
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u/soilchemist 1d ago
Then they get upset when you reject a job after multiple interviews because the pay is too low!
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u/Retlaw83 2d ago
A recruiter emailed me about a position with a large company that my current company has a customer. They happened to be looking for someone familiar with my company's software and a business system software I'm the market lead for in my current position.
I emailed the recruiter and told them that is a great coincidence, and then asked about the compensation. The answer was to call them when I got a chance. That was the wrong answer.
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u/KnoxxHarrington 2d ago
My response would be; if I'm going to have to the recruiter's work for them as well, you need to start your base from double the recruiter's wage and be prepared to negotiate up.
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u/not-rasta-8913 2d ago
Had something similar happen to me. Except that they did reply with a figure that was about 30% less than what I'm making. I was like, dude, you know who I am (well, maybe not you personally, but ask some of your actually working guys), you must have at least a vague idea about what I'm making.
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u/xpacean 2d ago
I actually donāt think that was necessarily the wrong answer. Usually theyāre trying to lowball you, but every so often itās āweIāll pay whatever you want thatās remotely reasonableā or āwe have a system and Iām going to tell you how to game itā and in neither case do they want that conversation in writing.
Itās not common, but it happens enough that Iām always up for a conversation.
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u/MightyTVIO 1d ago
Most of the time their actual compensation ranges are wildly unsuitable in my experience. I recently got someone contacting me (in fairness they mentioned a range upfront) who was offering about upto a 70% paycut. It's wasting everyone's time when the figures are so vastly skewed
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u/FinLandser 2d ago
Pay should always be the first question. It lets you know if you are wasting your time or not.
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u/Fiber_Optikz 2d ago
100% Businesses always ask for a quote first so why is it wrong for an employee
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u/Helpjuice 2d ago
If a company is going to buy something they do not want to see call for pricing, they want to know the actual cost up front. Same thing goes for candidates to see what the range is for the job. If I am making way more than the top of the range then there is a good chance that the job being offered is not going to be able to offer me current market rates for the job. Also if it has a generic title, but actually starts at a high range it is very clear that job is not entry level and requires a very experienced person for the role.
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u/TrueAkagami 2d ago
There is a guy in our local area Nextdoor that complains about this stuff too. Says the culture and enjoyment of the job is more important and he's tired of people making it all about money. He tries to impose his beliefs on the who town.
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
Ash him if his salary is Ā£0 since he is getting all that culture and enjoyment out of his job.
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u/ABVerageJoe69 2d ago
Had a bizarre one call my wife today. Wife makes six figures fully remote.
Recruiter wanted to know if she was interested in taking a $40k pay cut to move to bumfucking nowhere and work on site...?
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u/fallingbomb 2d ago
I always ask for the comp rage when contacted by recruiters. If it is too far off, there is no point wasting either persons time.
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u/irondragon2 2d ago
I fucking hate recruiters guts. Especially when they say "this would not be a good fit". Shut the fuck up.
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u/archival-banana 1d ago
Itās crazy, itās almost like people work to MAKE MONEY!! It should be illegal for them not to provide that information automatically!
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u/irondragon2 1d ago
Pretty sure in EU you are legally obligated to provide that information to an applicant.
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u/maxis2bored 1d ago
It's true though. Not a good fit for someone that knows their worth.
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u/irondragon2 1d ago
When you put it like that it's also true, but their initial reluctancy to provide you with details is annoying.
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u/Fit-Special-3054 2d ago
Iām not going to waste my time on something that could be no where near the rate Iām worth.
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u/1quirky1 2d ago
I have had to be very assertive. Amazon was trying to pull a fast one with my compensation.
My original four-year RSU grant had appreciated considerably so they tried to stiff me on grants that vest after the last vesting.
"Amazon doesn't get to recharacterize my vesting as some kind of accidental over-compensation that justifies reducing my compensation to less than what it was when hired three years ago. I have no reason to suffer a pay cut after my last vest."
My manager at Amazon literally said "it isn't all about the money"
"So give me some of yours. It won't be difficult to find better compensation elsewhere. I can come back in a year and get a new four-year RSU lock in and hiring bonus."
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u/DirtyPenPalDoug 2d ago
Pay is the reason you work. They don't know the pay, they can eat shit and fuck right off.
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u/SomedudecalledDan 2d ago
"Hey listen recruiter friend, if you want to tell me immediately and up front what the expected responsibilities are for this gig then maybe you and your company are not a good fit for this recruiting."
It is an entirely transactional relationship, so lets not fuck around and be all coy about the bit that I get out of this. It is not an "exciting opportunity" its a fucking job. I show up and do things, you pay me for them. If you think its important that I know the duties up front then I think its important to know the money.
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u/Acinixys 2d ago
Had a recruiter reach out to me on LinkedIn
Offering a role as procurement manager for a hotel chain in the Maldives, which so I sounded like a sweet gig
Asked her what the salary range was, but she was avoiding answering
So I told her that if it was less than my current package of X a year, with a guaranteed bonus + yearly share options, as well as a company car worth Y and a fuel card with unlimited personal use (This is what I currently have) she must stop wasting my time
Never even got a reply
Fuck recruiters lol
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u/Any_March_9765 2d ago
I don't get why these "passion" LinkedIn bullshit even matters to RECRUITERS. They are there to make a commission when they make a successful match between workers and employers. WHY would it matter to the recruiters? The faster they can do this better it is for them? WHy throw these stupid passive aggressive insults at the applicants, who are also essentially their clients....
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
You're not a client unless you pay money.
They do it to suck up to their real clients.
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u/RogersMrB 2d ago
I have recruiters asking me to take jobs all over the USA. I ask about compensation, moving expenses, and healthcare coverage as it has to be at least as good as what my taxes get me - I live in Canada...
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u/Dfiggsmeister 2d ago
Itās illegal in my state and I remind them constantly that regardless of location, you cannot post or offer up a role without a reasonable salary range. They usually let me know sooner than later what the job entails and the salary range.
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u/SSJStarwind16 1d ago
Thank Inslee that WA REQUIRES the compensation be posted or else the company could face a 5k fine
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u/maxis2bored 1d ago
"Hi Max, we have an exciting opportunity with a global company offering a competitive salary..."
"Hi, sounds like it could be a fit. Can you tell me more about the position, industry and salary?"
They never answer the salary question, so I ask directly:
"Hi, I'm happily employed right now and have an excellent salary. You've said the salary is competitive, and I'm glad to hear that. Please let me know the salary and we can continue with the interview."
If their next answer doesn't include salary, I block them. I'm not buying used car. And I'm not interested in working at a place where employers want to get the lowest rate possible - because that means they'll be doing the same tactic when it comes to reviews. Pay me what I'm worth, or fuck off.
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u/archival-banana 1d ago
Had a recruiter contact me, no pay info listed. Asked about it and they said āsorry, this position has already been filledā. This was within the span of two days. Like sure Jan, Iām sure it got filled. Iām sure you just didnāt want to hire someone who wants to know how little theyāre going to get paid š
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u/Wide-Lingonberry9539 1d ago
if itās the military the pay is always not worth the commitment. thatās why youāre not āa good fitā. they want people that have nothing better going on willing to settle for shit pay yet a stable income with all the great benefits the military offers (which is not the pay, unless youāre going officer but if you have a degree why bother unless you always wanted to be in the military) however there are certainly many advantages to having military experience
some classified jobs in the civilian contractor world (intelligence, counter intel, etc) require you to have experience, which can easily be acquired through the military in the long term grand scheme of things. thereās pros and cons to the military and everyoneās different
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u/Weekly-Mall7126 1d ago
Red flag. If they feel offended when you ask about compensation, it's because the compensation is SHIT. When recruiters know their compensation is good, they actually boast about it.
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u/cosmic-seas 2d ago
Humility is one thing, groveling is another. Nice job not letting them make this the new norm.
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u/anonymousforever 1d ago
And don't give me a pay range that says "12.00, up to 14.50" etc either. That means they're only gonna offer 12, the cheapskates.
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u/Late-Arrival-8669 2d ago
Hard to tell based on limited texts in screenshot, but usually should start with the following.
What is the job for specifically?
What would be my responsibilities?
What hours/days would I be needed and is overtime required?
Is this job remote or in person (if in person, location)?
What advancement opportunities does the company provide?
What is the pay range for my position the company offers?
What PTO benefits/healthcare/401k/etc. are offered?
Someone contacts you that is legit, you need the full picture. Yes pay is important but having all the info, especially via text and screenshots, would protect you in the future as well.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 2d ago
Have you ever been able to get real information about benefits? I feel like every time I ask about benefits, I get information like āyeah we offer full benefits and a 401k!ā Only to realize that the āfull benefitsā is $200 from my biweekly paycheck plus a $5k deductible without dental or vision and the 401k doesnāt have employer match. Every time I ask for specifics, Iām essentially told that Iāll get the open enrollment information after Iām hiredā¦. But by then itās too late.
If you have a strategy for this, please share š„ŗ
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u/mike2ff 2d ago
Directly ask them who the health provider is, and what (not if) the 401k match is. Yes you can get big variations of plans from the same provider, but itās a starting point.
EVERYTHING is negotiable. Iāve seen 2-4 different health plan offerings, depending on title and role in a company. PTO time, training, expense reimbursement. All are negotiable. The only thing stopping any negotiations is company policy (or occasionally laws).
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u/Square-Ebb1846 2d ago
Unfortunately, the most detailed answer Iāve ever gotten on health care is āwe have 2 (or 3) available plans from X company.ā That info is nearly worthless to me, since it doesnāt say anything about rates, deductibles, copays/coinsurance/ etc. And practices can be so deceptiveā¦.i just got a new job and was told anything within the hospital I worked at would be covered for a $0 copay (PCP) or $5 copay (specialist) with $0 deductible on their āchoiceā plan, or I could pay $30 (PCP)-50 (specialist)/visit to go with external providers on their ātraditionalā plan. Yeahā¦thatās a lie because they donāt just bill as a PCP/specialist. They bill as those things PLUS a hospital, meaning the MINIMUM to see a PCP is $50 on their āchoiceā plan, the $0 provider copay plus a $50 hospital copay. Itās cheaper to pay the thousand dollars for the ātraditionalā plan than to pay the copay and coinsurance of paying for a hospital visit every time I see any provider.
I wonāt lie, Iām resentful about the way companies scam people on health insurance.
The info on wording the 401k request is definitely something Iāll be trying in the future! Thanks!
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u/practicalm 2d ago
Usually when i get to the offer stage I ask to see the health care enrollment form employees fill out. There are usually prices for each category from each provider. Recently because all the forms are online this is getting harder to see.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 2d ago
Thatās a great strategy if they still use paper. Iāll try it in the future, although I agree that it becomes less likely as time matches on. My current company donāt even put it on a websiteā¦itās all on an intranet system and you have to be on a company computer in a company building to access it.
Thanks for sharing!
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
It's so strange. Benefits are like a competitive advantage they should sing it from the rooftops. I get some places are benefit heavy and others are cash heavy but there's people for both,
I suspect the real reason because they don't want to admit full benefits means monthly pizza party.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 1d ago
Honestly, I donāt think benefits are a selling point of most companies anymore. I havenāt been to a single company that fully covers premiums, much less has a low deductible or copay. Anyone who did that stuff probably WOULD advertise it. Instead, they call it ācompetitive,ā which means ābare minimum, just like everyone else.ā
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u/Wise-External-8310 2d ago
This is for a per diem/locums position in a specialized field. It essentially pays an hourly rate on a 1099 and other than rate, total hours are the only other negotiable variable.
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u/Effective_Will_1801 1d ago
Hard to tell based on limited texts in screenshot, but usually should start with the following.
That's what the ad is for. Sure its easier if you can send by WhatsApp with a file embedded but you could always link to the ad if it is published. Or if not put it on a Dropbox or gdrive or something.
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u/virtualuman Strike/Boycott Instigator 2d ago
When they reach out first thing you ask is for payment details. Period!
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u/buyandhoard 1d ago
OK, I would do this:
Offer my hand, then then tell them "I will charge you how ever much I feel is right, but don't you dare asking me how much will it cost you!"
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u/GodzillaIG88 1d ago
If someone makes you feel bad about asking about pay then that's not someone you want to work with anyways
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u/Lasivian Pissed off at society 1d ago
"Companies are in business to make money. So am I. I know my worth, and I don't work for free. Do you?"
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u/nobdyputsbabynacornr 21h ago
I like to ask about the last person who quit and why the employer feels they quit, follow that up with how the employer feels they could've done better as an employer and then head straight into questions about compensation. Saves me a lot of time!
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u/DefinitionLow6614 2d ago
The second they were offended by the question you should have laid into them. Hard.
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u/midnghtsnac 2d ago
Why is this redacted?
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u/Wild_Butterscotch977 1d ago
It seems to be showing the role type, like "engineering" or something similar, and OP doesn't want to give away his employment area.
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u/midnghtsnac 1d ago
He's also redacting the wages offered. I understand redacting the other stuff but he's complaining about wages offered and then hiding them
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u/Wild_Butterscotch977 1d ago
The exact numbers don't seem relevant to the main issue at hand. OP's redacting for privacy, I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.
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u/midnghtsnac 1d ago
Cause it's redacted to hide something and when items that aren't usually redacted such as wages cause those aren't private it raises questions about the whole thing.
The issue is the company not listing w wages, why redact that info or the companies name if you felt the need to call them out publicly
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u/Survive1014 2d ago
No pay info, no apply.
It is that easy for me.
I dont have time to waste with commission only, mlm or "own your own business" shit.