r/The10thDentist • u/Nitrome950 • Jun 09 '20
Meta - Standard Voting The best way to improve the quality of posts on this sub is to ban unpopular opinions that hinge on disliking something popular.
I have seen alot of opposition against food posts but honestly it really generalizes further into all disliking posts.
There are two issues with this format.
- It is extremely easy to come up with these posts. Take something everyone likes and say you dislike it.
- They become popular very easy because, in a way, they are an "attack" on the viewer. For example, if OP posts, "Anyone that eats ice cream is a horrible person", many people will upvote and just move on because they disagree with the post. It is direct opposition with the viewer's beliefs. On the other hand, the post "I eat eggshells like potato chips" (with adequate proof) just makes viewers think OP is weird. To fully appreciate the post, a viewer would have to read through the explanation to understand such a foreign opinion. In other words, good quality content is less eye catching than punchy, low quality "dislike" content.
I feel everyone is thinking the same thing to an extent, but I felt no one really worded it completely in long-form. I appreciate the mods of this server for enforcing rules whenever and wherever they are necessary without going overboard. I'm not sure if this move would be overboard, so I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say.
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u/ZiggoCiP The Last Rule Bender Jun 10 '20
Good post OP - all very prudent observations about issues this sub faces, seemingly at an increasing rate as we've grown.
So, first things first: Food posts.
Man, those things have been the bane of this sub's existence. A couple months in, everyone's complaining, so we limited them to a particular day of the week.
No one listened, removing them was a pain, and setting an auto-ban wasn't an option, as we getting all of like 10 posts a day.
Simpler times.
Cut to a few months later and we put an actual ban on food posts, well, we required proof for weird combos, which affected all food posts. And for a couple weeks there were like no food posts. It was kind of nice.
But then people kept 'forgetting' the flair, and their posts would squeak through.
Yall sure love those food posts.
So we have 2 options: we set new rules - that will almost certainly go overlooked -- or we can straight up ban food posts.
Can't speak to the dislike subjectivity/objectivity of posts, the criteria of 'good' is obviously not normal here, since the objective is to want people to disagree.
That one is really the burden of proof on OP. If you think OP is being a shitposter - like lazy - and put in no effort, isn't replying in comments, or is blatantly reaching - report.
Report the heck outta them. Better yet, PM the mods - 10X more likely to do a thing if you do that.
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u/plzdonut Jun 10 '20
I think the problem is with "I don't like x" posts in general. They have zero value and result in no discussion besides people trying to convince OP that they're wrong in the comments and they responding: "nah fam, already tried that" or something like that. On top of that, it takes 5 minutes to make a template for one of these posts that can be infinitely use, just changing the subject Example: "_____ is overrated I don't like _____ because (reason that takes a minute to google or think about). my friends always say: "but have you tried this type of __?" yes I have and I hate it Stop talking about __ as if it perfect."
follow the template, make a few tweaks and you've got yourself 1k free karma
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Jun 10 '20
Ban food posts. Usually either not that unpopular or just simply fake, or if it's "I don't like x" then a lot of people don't like x.
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Jun 10 '20
[deleted]
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u/ZiggoCiP The Last Rule Bender Jun 10 '20
Be nice if we could automatically reapprove those posts too.
But that sounds like a good idea.
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Jun 10 '20
That's true, I dont think automod can detect if they put up a flair, they'd have to make a new post.
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Jun 10 '20
I found a bot you guys may be interested in:
It is very useful when it comes to a post having a flair or not and actually knows when a post has a flair put on it.
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u/ZiggoCiP The Last Rule Bender Jun 10 '20
Who runs it? we have a bot, just no server to run it on.
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Jun 10 '20
I assume the creator of the subreddit. You may need to speak with them though because I'm not sure how frequent the bot is up or anything like that.
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u/Azeoth Jun 10 '20
You can make so you can’t post without a flair. I’ve been to subs with those requirements but I don’t know how it works.
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Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
Yeah you can basically go into the automoderator config and use something like this:
~flair_text (regex): ".+" action: remove comment: You need to set a flair before posting.1
u/Azeoth Jun 10 '20
No, I’m talking about not being able to post, not you post and it gets removed.
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Jun 10 '20
Oh right, not sure about that since I use old design, perhaps it's an option on the redesign to force flairs on posts? That'll have to be something for me to look into.
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u/Minenash_ Jun 10 '20
No one listened, removing them was a pain, and setting an auto-ban wasn't an option, as we getting all of like 10 posts a day.
I honestly don't remember this, which is surprising.
I think the main issue with this problem is that there's a group that hate this type of post, and the group who keep up voting those kinds of posts for the people who hate them to see.
I can't say that I like these types of posts, but I'm fine with it as long as their not exasperating or being a dick about it. Like for example, just because op doesn't like a food, there's (usually) no reason for them to say "and shouldn't exist". The problem is that it seems like people tend to up vote those posts.
I don't think banning food posts should be the way (I'd try Food Fridays again, but like you said, it's questionable if it'll work), but if it were to be banned, a 2nd sub should be made for just the food posts.
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Jun 10 '20
Yo you should add a flair for food and auto-ban anyone who uses it (temp of course)
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u/ZiggoCiP The Last Rule Bender Jun 10 '20
nah I don't believe in auto banning
not yet at least. I'd rather bring on more mods than resort to straight up bans for shitty posts.
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Jun 10 '20
Well it’d at least allow you to be able to see every food-flaired post instead of scrolling through new. Anyways hope that helps
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u/ZiggoCiP The Last Rule Bender Jun 10 '20
It may - we mods need to put our heads together tomorrow and sort shit out.
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u/Not_A_Crazed_Gunman Dental Assistant Jun 09 '20
If someone can provide a reasonable explanation as to why, for example, anyone who eats ice cream is a horrible person, then it should be allowed. The explanation should be written so that it's easily understood why a person would think that way too.
Without an explanation, yes, it's just bait, but people who legitimately think that way should be allowed to express their opinions. This isn't /r/unpopularopinion after all
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u/Nitrome950 Jun 09 '20
Even then, Im not sure how I feel about it. I see what you mean though. For example, if I say ice cream is bad because:
- It’s super cold and gives me brain freezes and headaches.
- It’s a shit ton of calories
- The texture is too rich.
I just labeled all of the disadvantages of ice cream with zero effort
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u/AlpacaCentral Jun 09 '20
Maybe they'd make a vegan argument or something to justify (to them) why dairy is bad as a concept
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u/samuteel Jun 09 '20
Yeah but that’s still kind of bland because it’s just an argument many have already heard before I’m sure
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u/DotoriumPeroxid Jun 09 '20
Yeah but there's plenty of vegan ice cream that is honestly flat-out better than most dairy based. It's soooooooooo fucking smooth
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u/MalarkTheMad Jun 10 '20
Yeah, well I like my ice-cream like I like my sand...
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u/Goldeniccarus Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
Yeah, I think the upvote if you disagree rule allows a lot of shit to rise to the top. I think the rule should really be, down vote if you agree, or the post is incredibly low quality and not worth anyone's time.
And it's very clear if you ever go into the comments which posts these are, because the post has upvotes, but every single one of the OPs comments gets downvoted to oblivion because either the poster is an asshole, or just doesn't have a good argument.
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Jun 09 '20
To be fair, the automod creates a sticky comment on all posts. If you think a post is low effort, downvote the automod comment.
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u/shortandfighting Jun 10 '20
But it doesn't seem to do anything. You can't even see how many downvotes it got.
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Jun 09 '20
That's actually been my de facto system for voting here, it'd be nice it that was the rule. The problem I see is that anyone with a disagreeing opinion might just claim it's low quality, "because how could anyone possibly think that?"
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u/PiesInMyEyes Jun 10 '20
Downvote if you disagree is how you end up in a piece of junk like r/unpopularopinion. It just ends up in actually popular opinions rising which is not the sub. But I think you’re into something with downvote if it’s low quality and really trying to upset people into upvoting instead of laying out their opinion in a respectable manner. I think that would help keep the quality of posts up a lot. Also people need to remember for the post sucks downvote the auto moderator that’s what it’s there for.
Edit: a letter
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u/ELITEJamesHarden Jun 09 '20
also ban political posts so this doesn’t turn into r/unpopularopinion
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Jun 09 '20
Already banned
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u/GreenOOFChicken Jun 09 '20
Unpopular opinion: orange man bad. I know, very controversial.
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u/smellslikefeetinhere Jun 10 '20
I'd give you gold if I could afford it! Maybe if a few kind users gave me platinum, I could do just that...
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u/MC_Cookies Jun 09 '20
Unpopular opinion: As a gay black trans man, racial, sexual, and gender minorities don't deserve to exist and should be sent to concentration camps
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u/Nitrome950 Jun 09 '20
I haven't seen many political posts, and those are banned in the rules. You can always report them.
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u/KingPhillipTheGreat Jun 09 '20
The funny thing is, political posts are already banned there, and yet they're all political. The mods at r/unpopularopinion truly don't care about enforcing the rules.
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u/Knacksaccount Jun 09 '20
No I got banned for 10 days for saying something about All lives matter being a forced diversity movement.
Yet every day far right nutters go on there and write posts that broadly equate to : women bad or black people bad, and get shiton of upvotes.
Truly a horrible sub.
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u/ChompGod Jun 09 '20
A person of color’s post was removed when they stated they were unaffected by racism until recent events. I guess they only remove it if it fits the narrative.
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Jun 09 '20
9/10 dentists recommend - 1/10 dentists don't recommend. Taking something everyone likes and saying you don't like it seems to be exactly what this sub is about. Unfortunately, it does lead to some easy bait, but blocking those posts leaves this sub only with opinions on things that no one knows about. That's hardly interesting, and it's impossible to know if you're a 10th dentist if few know what you're talking about.
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u/vacri Jun 09 '20
Liking or not liking common foods is simply part of being human. There's exactly zero 'huh, imagine that' factor when someone says they don't like icecream, any more than there is when someone says they don't eat red meat.
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Jun 09 '20
And I wouldn't consider that 10th dentist, since it's not at all uncommon to dislike it. The votes would reflect that.
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u/vacri Jun 09 '20
The problem isn't about the votes sorting things out, it's about filling up the feed with chaff. It shouldn't take the effort of dozens voting to filter out each individual chaff item.
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Jun 09 '20
Wouldn't it be the same with reports anyways? I guess I don't know how many or how long it takes for reports to be dealt with.
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u/whoatemycupoframen Jun 09 '20
I disagree. Opinions on rather niche things CAN be interesting. Makes you think on stuff you've never thought before.
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Jun 10 '20
That's true. I guess my issue is that it couldn't quite fit 10th dentist if there aren't 10 dentists (if that metaphor makes any sense in this context lol). Either way I don't think we should limit the sub to just those topics.
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u/Nitrome950 Jun 09 '20
I said this somewhere else, but its the difference between “I hate all forms of snacks”(actual optinion) vs “I like eating eggshells”.
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Jun 09 '20
9/10 dentists would recommend you don't eat eggshells, the poster recommends you do. That fits, even if it's a troll post. If they can't defend it, or their defense is clearly BS, it's obviously rule 5 and already banned.
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u/Nitrome950 Jun 09 '20
oh sorry i see where you misinterpreted me. I like the eggshells one. I said that the other one was an actual post thats extremely low quality
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Jun 09 '20
Ah gotcha. I agree with you about that being worse quality tbh, but if they could defend it well, I still say it fits.
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u/PM_UR_FELINES Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
1/10 dentists might recommend you eat eggshells, considering they’re pure calcium, so good for your teeth.
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Jun 09 '20
I absolutely agree. Like something others dont, rather than dont like something others do.
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Jun 09 '20
I think just a rule about wording would work. There's a big syntactical difference between "I don't like ice cream" and going on to explain what you don't like about it, and "Ice cream is terrible", followed by criticisms and surmised motivations of anyone who does like ice cream.
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u/johneyt54 Jun 09 '20
Exactly. Jeopardy rules. Has to be presented in the form of an argument instead of an opinion.
So: "Eating raw eggs is good for you" instead of "I like raw eggs."
This will also help the OP provide a better argument as there's an implicit requirement to provide supporting evidence instead of some cheap "because the other way is gross."
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u/EnigmaSeamount Jun 09 '20
I disagree but get your point, seens like most of the frustration is about people not liking food x or person y. I think if the sub becomes flooded with those types of post the mods could restrict people posting them on certain days e.g. only allow food related posts on weekends
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u/TheNotoriousKAT Jun 09 '20
This is a good idea.
Some of the more serious subs will have a "Meme-Monday" so the users can shitpost and keep the other 6/7 days with the theme of the sub.
Maybe have like a "Munchie Monday" or something where you can post about food-related topics
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Jun 09 '20
Don’t like that I have to downvote to agree with this. I think you’re absolutely right.
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u/Sarsmi Jun 09 '20
I wish there was a consistent format for post titles. Saying "I think (something good) is gross" is hard to upvote or downvote.
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u/RandomPhail Jun 09 '20
Based on what I’m reading, it sounds like the underlying issue is clickability of a title.
“I eat eggshells as chips” is pretty gross, so I doubt most people want to click it, but “I hate all snacks” is just very punchy, so it hooks the reader, so people WILL be likely to click it.
... I have no clue how we fix people’s titles without just forcing each title to be super bland... Maybe we can give tips on how to make a good title?
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Jun 09 '20 edited Oct 10 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 09 '20
Exactly. Not to mention, disliking something popular is pretty much equivalent to 1 dentist disagreeing with 9 dentists. Yeah it leads to some trolling, but that's what the sub is about regardless of the trolling.
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Jun 09 '20
I swear, we get one step closer to being just like r/unpopularopinion every time someone calls for this ban.
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Jun 09 '20
Tbh this sub has often been called r/unpopularopinion but actually good. I'm ok with that.
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u/PM_UR_FELINES Jun 10 '20
That’s why I’m here. UO can be fun at times, but the “karma is pointless” post once a day was grating.
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u/Peepoethegreat Jun 09 '20
This is like exactly what the I hate snacks post was, that guy was like fuck you I hate snacks and it was obviously bait
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u/pelirodri Jun 09 '20
I disagree. I like seeing those kinds of posts and I think it’s the perfect sub for shit like that. Where are we gonna post about that sort of stuff, then? r/unpopularopinion? Obviously not. Reddit is already full of ridiculous censorship and rules everywhere, and this is probably the only good sub for actual unpopular opinions; it’s exactly what it’s for and I don’t think there is any replacement for it. Besides, this is already a small-ish community, and by limiting what you’re allowed to post, I fear it might just stunt its growth, if not make it even smaller or something.
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u/diccpiccs101 Jun 09 '20
i wanted to make a post like this, maybe to ask to introduce a new rule that you cant just go “(super popular food) is GROSS and i HATE IT” because its the easiest possible thing to lie about and karma whore. they arent fun to read either and theres no way to prove them.
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u/intoner1 Jun 10 '20
Can we have less meta posts please? This is probably the 5th meta post I’ve seen on food posts.
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u/whoatemycupoframen Jun 09 '20
Honestly I wish I see more of people's quirks. The format 'I do x in y way' is actually mostly kinda fun to read.
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u/Truji21 Jun 09 '20
It's pretty ironic considering that the 10th dentist dislikes the toothpaste everyone loves...
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Jun 10 '20
No, it’s fine to dislike something popular.
But you need to provide a reason why you dislike it.
You can’t just say “I hate fortnite because it’s popular”, you need to give a decent reason on why you dislike it. I say remove posts that say “I hate X popular thing” without giving a proper explanation. I don’t think we should ban these posts altogether, just make it so OP needs to provide a reason why they dislike it, and not just “oh I dislike fortnite because it’s popular” Instead go into detail.
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u/--404NOTFOUND-- Jun 10 '20
Doesn't that negate the point of the sub. Some people hate that thing that everyone loves and it would suck if they just get called a karma whore for expressing that.
Maybe a small description as to why (though not as long as in r/unpopular opinions) and a rule against attacking the "fanbase"
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u/--404NOTFOUND-- Jun 10 '20
Also wanna add that sometimes people dislike things without really knowing why.
Like bananas. I simply don't like how they taste. Why? Tastebuds.
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u/Ouroboros963 Jun 09 '20
If you posted this so people will upvote because they disagree with you..... thats very meta
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u/yellowjacket81 Jun 09 '20
OK since we're doing this, I would add my two cents that downvoting posts you agree with is both confusing and counterintuitive. I understand what the goal is with doing so, but it creates a sort of weird exploit (I have to constantly remind myself that karma farming is a thing that people actually do) where you can post stuff that is absolute garbage and get upvoted for it.
I would instead suggest the normal reddit paradigm should be implemented, where folks will simply naturally upvote posts that they enjoyed, and to I'm pretty sure reddit has autobot systems for tabulating votes as to whether a reader agrees/disagrees with the statement being made. That could be implemented with minimal effort.
This would help mitigate some of the trash posts without resorting to making more rules.
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u/Squealing_Squirrels Jun 09 '20
Nope. That experiment already failed. Turns the sub into a place where people post popular opinions, just with edgy titles to make it seem like they are stating something unpopular.
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u/yellowjacket81 Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
I don't follow. If the voting for whether you agree with the topic is seperated from the reddit up/down voting, why would this result in the behavior you describe? Wouldn't people just vote that they agree with the topic on autobot, while also downvoting the shitpost? I'm by no means an expert on human behavior, and people are generally speaking very very stupid, so I'm open to anything here :)
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u/Nitrome950 Jun 09 '20
People enjoy stuff they agree with. r/unpopularopinion is a great example
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u/morthos97 Jun 09 '20
Sub should just be renamed r/soapboxfordouchebags
Every time I see someone bitching about that sub I point them here
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Jun 09 '20
Enjoyment rather than agreement- I like it! Upvote quality posts rather than the reverse disagree/agree format
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u/TheNebulaWolf Jun 09 '20
Saw a post where someone said anyone who joins any military is a bloodthirsty scumbag who wants to murder people. Some posts need to be removed for just straight up misinformation. If I made a post saying the pringles are made with chicken bones and anyone who supports pringles is a monster, it should get removed
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u/swervefire Jun 09 '20
tbh I followed this sub for weird takes and unconventional and entertaining discussions, bitching about what popular thing you like and being a negative Nancy just kills the vibe. If i wanted to hear someone complain about not liking what the kids are into these days I'd just phone my grandpa