Did PA really go red? Or were paper trailless computers ideal for rigging: Residents allege vote flipping

[u/Grace8543]

http://wgntv.com/2016/11/08/pennsylvania-voters-claim-voting-machines-changing-ballots/

PA is in process of purchasing new voting machines over this year! Organize to promote paper ballots hand counted to know who we really voted for in 2018.

As long as oligarch's/politicans can change or votes to suit themselves, Politicians will no longer need to work for the voter!

[u/puddlewonderfuls]

I think it's counter productive at this point to lay blame on parties for it (and if I'm remembering correctly, our state's machines are technically owned by Soros, which has much much stronger ties to the Dem party..) It's absolutely worth pushing transparency no matter how you identify or what issues you want to advocate for. It starts with electoral reform.

[u/Grace8543 → u/puddlewonderfuls]

Right so if PA votes were flipped then her own party and her biggest backer cut her loose. Its not hard to believe given all the evidence that now exists against her and if it leads back to them. Perhaps there was a deal made or who knows what.

But the spotlight is no longer on any kind of postmortem, for those of us who already believe the machines are rigable. But on moving forward and building a coalition against election and voter fraud in America.

[u/puddlewonderfuls → u/Grace8543]

I'm a big advocate for ranked choice voting. Do you know if the voting machines we're looking into require our present style of voting? This is absolutely something I'd like to get involved with :)

[u/Grace8543 → u/puddlewonderfuls]

That's great to hear. All I read was the following link: http://www.pennlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/08/study_on_aging_voting_machines.html I did a bit of research n it and found that the exploratory committee include all members of our state house and senate. So that means at least when it was set up, in March, EVERYONE in PA had 2 members on the committee to petition. Not sure if their has been any changes since then.
This link says nothing about the kind of machine and I believe that is what they will be discussing (as well as where to get the money).

The trend at present in many states seems to be not buying new voting machines but buying tabulators. The tabulators are cheaper and can process more votes more quickly. That would mean paper ballots and I would think they could be set up however the parties decide.

[u/Grace8543 → u/Grace8543]

Here's a link to find your PA legislature to petition them to not have electronic vote counting.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/

[u/puddlewonderfuls → u/Grace8543]

That's great news. I've started by contacting my local Green and Dem orgs through email and will call if I don't get an initial response. RCV looks like it requires paper ballot and a tabular machine should also be able to handle it. I'll also do my own research on this.

As the Wayers say, Onward!!

[u/Brioux]

I think PA did go red. Every county I've been in this past year showed overwhelming support for Trump or Bernie, even after the primaries.

Clinton was a failed candidate who was destined to lose from the start. The DNC propped her up, forcing it on us and we chose wisely.

[u/Nakamura2828 → u/Brioux]

Yeah in Pittsburgh things seemed pretty solidly blue, though even there you'd see the occasional trump sign or College Republicans table. Back where I grew up towards the middle of the state it was deep red as it always has been, but perhaps with more enthusiasm than in the past. Reading people on Facebook the biggest factors seem to be not any of Trump's policies, but more that he was willing to talk to the rural working-class and not call them stupid or bad people. Sanders too took that tack, but unfortunately Clinton sort of did the opposite. The "deplorables" line seems to have resonated extremely poorly with that group. I was still shocked on election night when we flipped red for the first time in 28 years though.

[u/puddlewonderfuls → u/Nakamura2828]

he was willing to talk to the rural working-class and not call them stupid or bad people

I think you've summed up why he won very well. MSM and the Dem establishment is jumping to call half of America racist, but that wasn't the real motivation. That mentality hides the deeper problem, which is that we're a country of class struggle and neither party wants to face it (because then they have to own up to all the $$$ behind our backs)

[u/BarbarousDebonair → u/Nakamura2828]

but perhaps with more enthusiasm than in the past.

I was home to watch the Halloween parade and there were at least a dozen pro-Trump floats and 3 different depictions of Hillary in jail. I never saw anything like that in the last 3 elections

[u/Brioux → u/Nakamura2828]

I saw a lot of Trump support in the Pittsburgh area back in early August when I was on that side of the state. Maybe it became more pro-Clinton towards election day?

I didn't see any Clinton supporters in the area in August.

[u/Nakamura2828 → u/Brioux]

I'm saying Pittsburgh city, not Pittsburgh area. It tends to get somewhat rural and a lot more conservative pretty quickly outside the city lines. I'd argue the city itself probably got more pro-Trump towards the end, in line with the results. You still saw tons of Clinton yard signs and bumper stickers compared to only a few Trump ones though.

[u/Brioux → u/Nakamura2828]

I may have just been in the wrong area of the city. Oh well, Pittsburgh went to Clinton in the end anyway so I'll trust your judgement.

[u/scarecrowman175 → u/Brioux]

Yeah, I live in Northeastern PA and regularly travel between Pike, Wayne, Luzerne, and Lackawanna County and I'd rarely see a sign supporting Hillary with the exception being in the heart of Scranton. The only counties she won in NEPA was Lackawanna and Luzerne by 3.4 and .3 respectively. It doesn't surprise me at all PA went red.

[u/Hi_ImBillOReilly]

There is zero accountability in a machine that counts your vote, in which you can't verify that it is recorded correctly. It's the equivalent of trusting an anonymous man behind a curtain to write your vote down as you tell it to him, with no way to look at the actual ballot.

It could have been rigged in Clinton's favor or in Trump's favor. It's impossible to know.

[u/RevisionScenarioB]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/in-battleground-pennsylvania-claims-of-a-rigged-election-may-be-impossible-to-disprove/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-security-flaws-in-voting-machines-could-discredit-election-results/

[u/Grace8543]

PA states assistant Secretary of State was a lead attorney on a supreme court case in PA alleging that electronic voting was unconstitutional, which is clearly was by the language of PA's voting laws. The PA Supreme Court said it was constitutional, anyway.

Now knowing that, Our new Democratic Gov appointed her as Assistant SOS. So, I think we have some allies high up in our governors office. The current SOS of State of course had to fight against the new Assistant SOS in that Supreme Court case. So, I don't know where he stands n this. Was he just obligated or is he for electronic voting?