ENG Analysis
TM Points, Rank and Rewards at a glance
First of all, I wanted to thank the community for its overwhelming response (over 140!) in helping me collate this data.
Please keep in mind:
Values are interpolated based on responses provided which won't be exact and should be used as a guide only
This is based on TM Smoothie/Oven and isn't necessarily a good guide of future TM's as we had the bird and intrusion
Update: Thank you to u/WootieOPTC for providing the raw data for Base and Point increases for GL and NW league. The following is a table showing the % increase in Cumulative Treasure Points at each Nav Level from GL to NW using the same team (note, a higher multiplier team doesn't change the % increase significantly).
i.e. if you were to get 10m points in GL at Nav 30, then using the same team in NW at Nav 30 you would get roughly 15m
% increase in Cumulative Treasure Points from GL to NW
Thank you for this interesting analysis! It shows that when the TM is pretty good, players staying in NW have all farmed up to 5M points but the 7M red ticket isn't such a great incentive to keep farming. I got Hody from that one so I can easily understand that! ^^
It would be really cool to see what it's going to look like with TM Doffy (no birds and less people hyped by the Driven RR batch compared to Germa V2) because against Nami I just got 3.5M points and stayed in NW (rank ~6500 if I remember well)
If bandai started introducing LRR ticket pulls every month, I think it is kind of worth it. I will be ok to take a dupe for Ray points. I got 20k Ray points this TM.
I like that the real competition is in the GL rank 2000-3000. Less than a 140K spread amongst 1000 players, all trying to get the best rewards possible without jumping into NW.
From what I saw, there is no real competition there, actually. The thing in GL is : many players hit the 5M mark and stopped there. Which results in this "wall" around 2-3k rank.
Saying this because when I was closing on 5M, a mid-fight (~11k points) would give barely ~10 ranks, while a boss/invasion would give barely ~100 ranks (that is, 100k+ from the fight, using a 6.73 team). But as soon as I passed the 5M threshold, it was like an empty highway : getting easily 100+ ranks from a mid-fight, and like 300-400 easily from the boss/inva.
In other words, many people in GL just aim for the 5M rewards and stop right there (be it a full stop, or a wanted stop using non-boosted teams to get as low points as possible while still getting LB mats), which will "naturally" make them stay in GL, as others who farm more than 5M, will get ahead of them.
To illustrate that, ~1 hour before the closing time :
5,025,709 points : rank 2869
(16 mins later) 5,183,007 points (157k more, corresponding to 3 mid-boss at x3, 1 midboss at x6.7 and the boss at x6.7) : rank 1885
In 16 mins, just doing 1 level map (not even full) with "accessible to most people" team multipliers, already makes you jump 1000 ranks....and at the same time, putting you in promotion bracket (below 2000 in GL). Although the missing ~120 ranks to remain in GL will be probably filled in the last ~55 minutes, it just shows that at 5M, people just stopped... for those who didn't want to promote (or don't care about ranking). As for those who wanted, just a little push over 5M would grant them promotion.
And at the closing time : 5.9M points = rank ~1100 (about 700k points for barely 700 extra ranks, while at the 5M mark, 150k gave 1000 ranks xD)
Base points for first nav lvl clear x (Y)x(9.5+Y/2)/10
(Y)x(9.5+Y/2)/10 is the part accounting for increasing points per nav lvl with Y being the reached nav lvl in question.
Base points for first nav lvl depend on the TM structure (with or without bird), boosters available for the player and the base boss points.
For TM Smoothie/Oven the base points for first nav lvl would look like this:
(B1 x 1200 + B2 x 1200 + B3 x 1200 + B4 x 1200 + B5 x 5000 + B6 x 5000) x 1.5
B1 ... B6 are the corresponding point multipliers for the bosses. B5 and B6 are the ones for the big bosses. Short form: (B1 + B2 + B3 + B4) x 1200 + (B5 + B6) x 5000
You can slap the information together in an excel sheet and get the info you want very quickly. For me the formula on the last TM would have looked like this:
Base Points = ((4.78 + 2.99 + 4.78 + 2.99) x 1200 + (10.96 + 10.96) x 5000) x 1.5 = 192 372
I cleared 88 nav lvls. So rest of the calculation would be:
Total Points = 192 372 x 88x(9.5+88/2)/10 = 90 568 737
Which is quite accurate (in fact I got 97 million points). But that is due to some point spots on the road and the intrusion boss I killed for 1.6 million points on the last nav lvl clear. One could derive that 5% (approximately 5 million points in my case) of the total points come from point spots on the map.
I know it's not the most comfortable solution. I lack resources (and knowledge) to provide a calculator on a website basis. But creating a spreadsheet in excel is not that hard. You can even do it without, just change the numbers I used to the ones from your teams.
EDITS: Several small changes for readability and omitting useless text.
I actually lectured some young people in maths in my free time, who were struggling to learn succesfully. From my experience, most frustrations when learning math come from a lack of examples and a teachers' lack of time and/or dedication to actually check where the confusions in the students lie. So struggling with math is not something that has to stay for a lifetime. Finding something that motivates to use math without pressure is always helping. :-)
Bingo on the examples part. I did tutoring math years ago, and when you explain with simple examples that relate to their daily life, they grasp the concept right away. Mostly, I based my examples on money, a subject that everyone would understand easily.
Looks right. The mini boss base points have been 1200 in the recent treasure maps. I changed that in the linked file.
I filled in my own numbers (as seen in my example calculation) and the result is the same: 90 568 737. There is a difference of 80. Probably due to rounding differences.
So, yeah: Your excel file works fine and accounts for everything. Good job. :-) And thank you. This should help some users like /u/DarkArtsCrew a lot.
(Also I am relieved that my formula (Y)x(9.5+Y/2)/10 for the point growth depending on the navigation level is correct. :-D It gets to the same result! Math can be very satisfying. grin)
Did some quick maths, It should be very similar if not the same. Lucky I had my saved team and could bring it up. I was in GL and had 3.78 3.78 4.25 3.36 and for bosses 6.73 and 9.86
I cleared 51 levels and got 26m,
The formula shows 27m so not a huge difference.
This actually significantly changes my views if the growth rate and base for GL and NW is the same.
I think the hardest thing is how to have someone host it. The point increase data would be obtainable at next TM as soon as it starts. We probably need the guys who does the TM planner to host it or sth.
I've already done it in the past with a friend for other TMs. It's way easier than it seems, because the point gain related to Nav Lvl is linear.
That means that if you use the exact same teams and you earn e.g.
- Nav lvl 1 = 100k
- Nav lvl 2 = 140k
Then, Nav lvl 3 is 180k, Nav lvl 4 is 220k and so on. And obviously the total points would be the addition of all these numbers. If you're interested I can try to quickly make one on Excel and post it.
EDIT: Note than this wouln't take into account stuff like landing on TM points on the Map, so there would always be a small discrepancy between these calculations and reality.
For this TM, GL had as starting points : 4,000 for boss/invasion; 1,000 for minibosses. NW had 5,000 / 1,200 respectively.
The growth was +280 for boss/inva and +70 for mini-bosses in GL (=7%), while it was +500 for boss/inva and +120 for mini-bosses in NW (=10%).
So how exactly did you have the "same base and growth rate" when the base points are 25% higher for boss/20% higher for mini-boss, and the growth 78% bigger for boss/71% for mini-boss? :p
With x1 teams, Lv 1 would give 12,000 points in GL / 14,800 in NW (23% extra points in NW, or 2,800 pts).
Lv 10 would give 19,560 points in GL / 28,120 in NW (43% extra in NW, or 8,560 pts)
Lv 50 would give : 53,160 points in GL / 87,320 points in NW (64% extra in NW, or 34,160 pts)
So not only the gap grows with each level, but as you cumulate points, the cumulated gap also grows bigger and bigger.
And the team multipliers have also a bigger impact on the difference, because in GL, boss points are 33.33%, invasion pts are 33.33% and 4 miniboss combine to 33.33% of one level. While in NW, boss/inva points are 33.8% each, while the 4 mini combined 32.4%. It may seem not much, but the miniboss give basically 4% less points than the boss in NW (4800 total vs the 5000 from the boss at Lv 1), so using something like e.g. a x3 team for all mini-bosses but like x6 for the boss/inva, it will give a bit more points in NW than GL, respectively.
So nope, not the same at all. Popstar's formula (not sure how he shortened it to that point btw), if correct, applies to NW only, as the rest is different in GL, be it base points, or point growth.
First navigation level gives 100% points. (= base value)
Each following level gives 10% more.
To avoid fractional numbers and keep the formula appealing to the eye I modeled this connection like this:
Navigation level 1 nets you (base points) x (10)/10
Navigation level 2 nets you (base points) x (11)/10
...
Last navigation level nets you (base points) x (Y+9)/10
With Y being the last cleared navigation level, how can the last point be explained? We still are talking about the increase in percentage compared to the first navigation level. For example the 10th navigation level gives you (10-1) times 10 additional percent compared to the 1st. 90 percent in this case. 100 percent base value plus 90 percent bonus are 190 percent. Which is 1.9 or 19/10 (or (10+9)/10). That accounts for all other point growings as well. (1st level gives you (1+9)/10 the amount of the base value.)
So with the value of each navigation level being (Y+9)/10 times the amount of navigation level 1 we can try to simplify the sum of all the different navigation level points:
Base value x (10+11+12+...+(Y+9))/10
The sum part (10+11+12+...+(Y+9))/10 looks very familiar to a famous problem, Carl Friedrich Gauß solved at the young age of 9, when he was supposedly told by his math teacher to add all numbers from 1 to 100. The solution to his case was 100x(100+1)/2 = 5050. (The sum formula is generalized with n x (n+1)/2.)
In our case I knew the solution needed to look somewhat similar. I got back to the formula, replacing all specific numbers with their relation to Y:
((9+1)+(9+2)+(9+3)+...(9+Y))/10
There would be a total of Y elements in this bracket. So the value 9 would be added Y times. I reformed the string:
((9 x Y)+(1+2+3+...+Y))/10
Here I could use the formula from Gauß and replace 1+2+3+...+Y with (Y x (Y + 1))/2 or (Y2 + Y)/2 = Y2 /2 + Y/2. Adapting the formula it now looks like this:
((9 x Y) + Y2 /2 + Y/2)/10 = (9.5 x Y + Y2 /2)
There we can extract the Y from both summands within the bracket and get to the following multiplier:
(Y) x (9.5 + Y/2)/10
There you go. Questions are allowed. And yes, I have fun doing such derivations. :-D
FYI I've updated the original post to incl the cumulative difference between getting points in GL and NW, thought you might be interested since my original theory was proven wrong.
Yup, I get the general idea, and doing the maths "my way" according to your general idea, I got to the formula : total = base*N*[N+19]/20, which is equivalent to your base*N*[N/2+9.5]/10 ^^
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, as seeing that "9.5" in your original formula was odd at first sight xD (especially since I didn't "compute" the general formula before this thread).
Btw, you should edit your original comment to add that your formula is only for New World league (as GL has a different growth, and EB probably as well, so not valid for other leagues). This comment :
TL;WR: The formula is:
Base points for first nav lvl clear x (Y)x(9.5+Y/2)/10
Base points for first nav lvl clear x (Y) x (96.5 + 3.5 x Y)/100
And the base points are:
(B1 + B2 + B3 + B4) x 1000 + (B5 + B6) x 4000
I omit the background for the (Y)x(96.5 + 3.5 x Y)/100 part. It was derived the same way as with the NW formula.
If we want to actually compare how big the difference in point gain is, we need to compare the base points and the point growth parts.
We can reform the point growth part of the GL formula to look like this:
(Y)x(9.65 + 0.35 x Y)/10
It now has basically the same form as the point growth part from the NW formula. So we can try to compare them directly, including Z as the relation factor:
(Y)x(9.5 + 0.5 x Y)/10 = (Y)x(9.65 + 0.35 x Y)/10 x Z
Dividing by (Y) and multiplying with 10 we get:
9.5 + 0.5 x Y = (9.65 + 0.35 x Y) x Z
What do we get from this? We can see that with growing TM clears Y gets the more dominant role. With Y = 1, Z becomes 1 as well. With Y = 81 the left side is 50 and the right side is 38. Z would be 1.32. Max Z would be 0.5 / 0.35 -> Zmax=1.42.
The base points are constant over time. A little difference might be that in GL it is easier to keep the same point multipliers with rising nav lvl as the difficulty is lower and you can let your teams stay the same. Also boss points on GL are 4 times as much as mini boss points, compared to 4.16 as much on NW, giving them a bit more emphasis there. Other than that comparing base points from NW and GL is pretty simple. I assume B1 to B4 to be about 3, and B5 and B6 to be 6. (But they could be any values, really.) Comparing NW and GL in this case would look like this:
(3+3+3+3) x 1200 + (6+6) x 5000 = ((3+3+3+3) x 1000 + (6+6) x 4000) x Z
74400 = 60000 x Z -> Z ~ 1.24
Z would be bigger, the bigger the point boost difference between the point boosters for mini bosses and big bosses are, but only by at max 0.04% of 1.24 (because 4.16/4 - 1). So 1.25 is a good estimation and should be constant over all navigation levels.
Concluding we can use these relation factors and compare the point formula from GL and NW:
NW points = GL base points x 1.25 x (Y)x(96.5 + 3.5 x Y)/100 x Z
With Z increasing from 1 to 1.42 at max with increasing navigation levels Y. (Z = (9.5 + 0.5 x Y)/(9.65 + 0.35 x Y))
Choosing the navigation level Y we now can say how much more points one would gather on NW compared to GL. For high navigation lvls (like 100 in example) the factor would be 1.25 x 1.33 = 1.66. So reaching navigation lvl 100 with the same teams NW would net you about 66% more points than GL.
With the comparison /u/ForGloryX made in this table you can see these relational factors. For nav lvl 1 Z = 1. So the point difference is 23% (similar to the 1.25 factor that I assume for the base points). With growing navigation levels it grows towards the 1.66 factor that I assumed in total for nav lvl 100.
Ahhh you have the Exact info I was looking for! I'm quite glad someone proved me wrong with the actual data. Reverse engineering is always full of flaws. Btw is there a place you got this information? Assuming you weren't in two leagues at the same time to monitor the base and growth rate of 2 at the same time or have they been the same each TM? Because this will be the exact kind of data I need next TM.
GL data is mine, as I have been monitoring GL TMs since almost day 1 of TMs :p (and they have been changing quite a few times).
NW data came from the calculator sheet that was posted 2 days ago (since it had the details of the base points and their growth) ^^
For the next TM however, I'm back to NW (had to make profit from the germa kids I pulled during anni, since they allowed a high multiplier while being perfectly suited for the boss/inva, to get high in rankings to get back to NW for more LB mats :p) - so no more data for GL D:
Ah sweet now the 4000 is around 9.5 mil? I think it was somewhere in 7-8 before we got 7 mil rewards, now I wonder how much I’ll try to get that one extra legend cuz it’s just more time I don’t want to do, especially if I don’t have any tm specific boosters
Well to be fair it’s 3 legends guaranteed at 7M before it could have been more points required + it might be more stressful now you can get up to 4 legends if you want to play more.
So all in all i think its still a win isn’t it ?
Yea ah it’s true that I could potentially get more legends, and in actuality the points on that isn’t really changed. Probably my biggest issue though is that it seems the minimum to stay in new world has raised by a lot though, so I can’t really have a lazy tm without still having to farm to stay in the rank.
That might be true! We have to wait, we had a pretty bad tm and a tm where a lot of people had the 1,35 germa batch, we have to get at least one more TM to get an idea of how much changed
Yep. I really felt how hard people from 110-90 grinded, considering my rank only hovered around 106-108 even when I'm finishing Smoven and Linlin, then I gave up 2 hours before the end of TM because I need sleep, Landed in Rank 113 after
Man, I am definitely in the same boat as you! I competed for that 100 spot as hard as I could but in the end I have up and l fell to 117. I had Pound but no Cracker and Jinbe and clearing one nav Level only gained me 1-2 spots at most. Not really sleeping for 3 straight days and having a family life is way too hard for me I realised.
I think I’m done with tryharding TM in the future.
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u/FireScorpion9 Promising Rookie Aug 21 '19
Thank you for this interesting analysis! It shows that when the TM is pretty good, players staying in NW have all farmed up to 5M points but the 7M red ticket isn't such a great incentive to keep farming. I got Hody from that one so I can easily understand that! ^^
It would be really cool to see what it's going to look like with TM Doffy (no birds and less people hyped by the Driven RR batch compared to Germa V2) because against Nami I just got 3.5M points and stayed in NW (rank ~6500 if I remember well)