r/OnePieceTC • u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* • Jul 12 '18
JPN Discussion I feel like Treasure Mode has changed
I’ve been noticing that Treasure Mode has shifted its focus a little bit. If you compare the older TM units (Mihawk, G4, Ace mainly) to the more recent ones (Big Mom, Crocodile and now Jack), the overall “power” of the unit has been gradually reducing. Older units were literal gods, being compared to legends on equal footing. It feels like as of recent, the units have been not necessarily weaker, but more gimmicky. Croc is good for low damage captains, Jack is useful in very specific instances, and Big Mom, although having an amazing special, has a Gimick CA.
So now to my claim: I feel like the focus for TM has been changed from earning the unit to reaching the free legend ticket. Starting from Kizaru, there was no need to make a god-tier unit to make people invest in TM. A free legend is enough incentive.
I can see only see one problem with this claim: You could say that Whitebeard was also gimicky, but he was a very strong unit in Striker teams who lacked an orb booster, and was great at dealing with barriers. At the time, he was really impactful for Neko teams, especially as he was also Powerhouse, allowing entry at Neo raids with Neko for Powerhouse only.
I don’t know if it’s just me, but the last TM units i’ve gotten have been collecting dust for mid-end/endgame content. Sure, Croc is an amazing quality of life unit, but he won’t be clearing any invasions.
Let me know what you think!
Edit: Changed Slasher to Striker.
Also, I am not complaining, my go to team nowadays is Neptune with Croc and Big Mom. I love them and use them waaaaay more than ace or g4 (I have G4 V2 so maybe that’s why)
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u/FateOfMuffins Doktah Carrot Muffins Jul 12 '18
Gimicky doesn't mean bad. Like you said yourself, you use these "gimicky" units way more than the "strong" units, so are they really weaker?
BM for example is no less than Cavendish in all aspects (stronger special multiplier even with full board as G, only downside being restriction on colour affinity). Gimicky but proven to be strong CA, who finds a lot more use as a captain than Cavendish (mainly because of V2 Doffy).
Mihawk? Amazing
WB? Good, but not game changing
Cavendish? Amazing
G4? Amazing sub, meh captain
Ace? Amazing
Sabo? Amazing sub, meh captain
Zanji? Amazing
Kizaru? Good but not game changing
BM? Amazing, although gimicky
Croc? Worthless CA, good sub for weak teams, but otherwise not very strong
Jack? Meh CA, likely to see some use for specifically designed content
I think strong gimmicks like BM and Croc are fine for TM units. Only Jack is a disappointment for me personally (his unit is just designed so boring).
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Well, Croc is an amazing addition to Katakuri teams, as he makes the orbs Kata doesn’t match do, granting a full board and +0.6~ boost
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u/FateOfMuffins Doktah Carrot Muffins Jul 12 '18
Thanks for the info! I haven't been lucky enough to pull any new units so I don't really know their teams too well :(
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Oh I wish I had Kata hahaha
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u/qmznkrv Powerful Attack Chance Jul 13 '18
I got him as my free Legend pull off the last TM, and have been throwing him at content since, excited to see his mechanics at work.
I just can't get decent results. The goal seems to be to hit 2 million damage in the first turn, proc the delay, then use the 1.75x delayed enemy attack boost with orb boost, attack boost, and maybe some other sort of extra boost, such as Croc's Captain swap.
So for hitting the initial 2 million, TM Big Mom is decent, but there are problems. One, she's only Powerhouse, so she only gets half of Katakuri's CA. Two, she manipulates orbs to G, which Katakuri's Special cannot swap to full matching. Three, she applies three buffs and manipulates orbs. So using her against a boss with buff or orb manipulation counters (such as the Colo fight with Opera, for example) is often suicide.
And while Croc provides a nice bit of extra punch, the way he fills in the orbs Katakuri can't match is only useful in edge cases, because Katakuri's Special sets all orbs to matching. It's handy when there's an orb manipulation counter, I suppose, but then it becomes difficult to enable the delayed boost from Katakuri's Special while still retaining matching orbs.
Most strong Katakuri parties I've seen use Legend Nami, who I do not have. The combo of affinity and orb makes a big difference in the damage, even if only one or two units are strong types against the boss.
It's clear I need to get Colo Pedro skilled up, as the two turns of Cerebral affinity boost is really ideal for the Katakuri setup. Go full Cerebral with Zunisha, bring units like 6+ V2 Law and Valentine's Nami, use the first turn of buffs to hit the 2 million, then use the second turn to clear.
This isn't meant to refute Croc being great as Katakuri crew... I'm just taking an opportunity to vent, to mention that I've personally been having a hard time making him work, due to being short a few key RRs. His CA ended up feeling terribly restrictive, which is probably why he showed up in my Friends List for about a week after his release, then disappeared. It's a damned shame, because I really enjoy hitting his Perfect, as well as tanking hits using the DR on his CA.
Of course, I'm sure he'll be returning to the list for this TM, so we'll see how that goes.
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u/JohnnyDgiov Jul 12 '18
Dude croc is amazing for so many teams, he can allow experience teams to beat 60 stamina raids and invasions afterwards. Of course, you're gonna need a half decent box to go with it, but you can very often make it work out.
In comparison, characters who look and sound amazing like tm wb, ace or zoro/sanji just never had the same amount of usage as croc, at least in my personal experience.
I might be a quirky player who likes to build exp teams for anything possible in order to get the maximum gain out of every piece of content, but because of croc and his best bud colo neptune, I've been able to do a lot more than watever tm character came before helped me doing.
For this alone, he's one of the most valuable characters that have ever been released IMO. He also allows ts colo kid to work with any captain, which I find extremely useful for fortnight clearing as it takes a lot less time using this strategy than stalling for other specials.
Not every player is the same and therefore the perception of each character changes for everyone. But discrediting a unit or even a whole portion of the game because "you don't see the same amount of potential in the units" is a reasoning I disagree with.
I wanna see what jack brings to the table and how useful/used he ends up actually being in the long run before I judge him and the whole game mode surrounding him. Feel free to disagree.
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u/Triinox Jul 12 '18
My target rn is: farm gems for tm sugo, pull, get high ranking, enjoy 3-4 legends 🤷🏻♂️
So yes I also feel a bit like it, but I really like the units aswell
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Jul 12 '18
Exactly my plan now in this game, More enjoyable this way.
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u/Triinox Jul 12 '18
Yep, seems to be the most efficient way of spending gems
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u/KSmoria Jul 12 '18
Why tho? Wouldn't it still be better to save gems for 2x legend sugos and legend on 3rd multi? And you'd still get 2-3 legends by playing at a decent ranking. Or are you talking about p2p?
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u/Triinox Jul 12 '18
You can get 130 gems in a month easily these days, which most of the time means 1 free legend and 1 point booster. I really fucking enjoy tm for some reason and therefor I like to go for high rankings (500 last one). I get 2 legends for 3 and 5M points and the legends from the ranking. If I'm lucky i can get 5+ Legends from 130 gems and a fuck ton of Tablets and LB material. Edit: also I have bad experiences from 2x legend sugos lol and most importantly I don't miss too many new batch units if I pull once a month
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u/Duk0 GlbID: 579-083-537|G4V2, BM, AkainuV2, ShanksV2, Lace, Katakuri Jul 13 '18
But the pulls you get from TM don't have rate-ups, so the chance to get dupes is way higher than on legend x2 Sugos (which usually rate up the latest stuff.)
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u/Triinox Jul 13 '18
Just got v2 akainu. I‘ll stick to my plan lol.
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u/Duk0 GlbID: 579-083-537|G4V2, BM, AkainuV2, ShanksV2, Lace, Katakuri Jul 13 '18
Really jealous, I only got like 3 new units from all the TM pulls since Kizaru.
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Jul 19 '18
Yep.. Higher Chance for no dupes..
Me on the other side got 14 dupes (just had 15 legends) in 9 Multis
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u/Phenosan Crying at the discotheque Jul 13 '18
On GLB: If you buy them you'll get 130 gems easily yes. By playing maybe 50, including the login gem a day
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u/Shishibu-Cana Shichibukai-chaça Jul 12 '18
i'm a GLBL player so... can you explain to me? in JPN you got legends as rank rewards?
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u/PatenteDeCorso Jul 12 '18
Yes, at Kizaru (two Maps after Sabo IIRC) they added a ticket system at the rewards:
- Bronze tickets, can be a silver, a gold or a red póster.
- Golden tickets, only gold and red posters.
- Red tickets, guaranteed legend.
You get them as rewards at certain number of points, and also get them as rewards from ranking.
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u/Shishibu-Cana Shichibukai-chaça Jul 12 '18
OMFG! Thath's nice in my opinion.. i'm F2P plvl 365 and if i don't get new legends, i could deg raypoints. would be nice too, to get ships, characters and skull since i only got reds and purples. i'm my opinion this "tickets system" sound pretty awesome!
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u/PatenteDeCorso Jul 12 '18
Well, it's really nice indeed, but the last reward is at 5M so, be ready to some grind (~40 runs).
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u/KSmoria Jul 12 '18
We already have 5M rewards on global, so it won't be anything new.
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u/PatenteDeCorso Jul 13 '18
Yes, I know, I play both. TBH, 5M at Global should be a bit easier with the increased points and the better point growth, I hope they don't push the limit higher for this.
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u/Shishibu-Cana Shichibukai-chaça Jul 12 '18
in my case, i usually make my way to 7M to stay "high", get good rewards and get "high". i'm really excited for this update on Global.
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u/blacksusanoo23 Jul 12 '18
Right now in new world league on Jp we get 1 legend ticket at 3million points and 1 at 5million points aswell as free Normal summons with the same rates as the TM sugo except for the TM units that aren't pullable.we also get more legends for ranking if you rank between (1001-5000) you get another legend pull if you rank in the top 1k, you get 2 more legends instead.
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u/Shishibu-Cana Shichibukai-chaça Jul 12 '18
All i read: "red posters = red tickets...... legends..... 2 legends.... 4 legends?!
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u/Shishibu-Cana Shichibukai-chaça Jul 12 '18
All i read: "red posters = red tickets...... legends..... 2 legends.... 4 legends?!
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u/blacksusanoo23 Jul 13 '18
Yeah but top 1k is very very hard I think it's around 15-20million points. top 5k is alot more doable thought so that is what I usually aim for about 8-9m points for 3 legends.
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u/Kibichu Jul 13 '18
Big mom is good. you're excused
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 13 '18
I use Big Mom all the time. Pair her up for Inuarashi, Shirahoshi and a chain locker and she wreaks havoc. I’m excused.
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u/Sanjifreak420 Jul 13 '18
Big Mom and croc are really really good and I use both of them significantly more than I use say Mihawk. Jack is just bad and I think Kizaru is too but I don't think it's actually that different, the units are just good in less obvious ways.
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u/ALPHAyo hello, how can i help you Jul 13 '18
i have the feeling, that its not only TM thats changing. bamco also tries to create unique captains so you dont have to run the same captain twice. like katakuri for example. it is useless to run double katakuri and i REALLY like this step. i dont like having 1 unit running 90% of the content.
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u/drducky97 Jul 14 '18
To me tm has changed from a fun little grind to a slog, the past few have been gimmicky as fuck and just unenjoyable and seeing as how this one may be the same exact way it's getting redundant quickly
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u/Absalom2009 <3 Jul 12 '18
i'd take gimmicky TM units rather than overall good units. As a veteran i have so many good legends, that i've never used ace/mihawk..whitebeard/big mom on the other hand are still useful...But thats just me, im sure newer players like ace/mihawk way more.
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
I actually like Croc and Big Mom a lot more than Ace. I was more making an observation than complaining
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Jul 12 '18
If your f2p tm units play a more important role in many teams. Granted if you've played this game from the beginning you might have better options. Yet I started last October and the tm units are a blessing, tm g4 and whitebeard see a lot of use from me. My main to classes are striker and powerhouse.
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Jul 12 '18
Jack and Croc are the only ones I see going this way so not really. Even then Croc is still very good.
Also they made Tm rewards massively better than before so they might be trying to balance it? I’d prefer legend pulls + a very good/decent unit than a Mihawk level Tm unit with no legend pulls. It’s just my preference really.
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u/Alittledod Jul 12 '18
Im perfectly okay with that as long as they come as unique(kinda like Big Mom or Croc)are still usable and worth the hours long grind and that every once in awhile they put out a new one that is pretty broken.(maybe every 4-5 TMs??)
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u/Multifrank504 Single Pull Legend Boys Jul 12 '18
I've been using croc to clear invasion Garp on my v2 shanks team. It allows me to hit a great or two. Croc has uses
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Damnnnnn. Could you send a link with your team? I’m hella curious
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u/Multifrank504 Single Pull Legend Boys Jul 12 '18
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
WOAH! This is pretty much F2P. That’s amazing. I remember when I did my post about TM Croc where I summarized his uses, I added Shanks there as a bonus cap, and everyone agreed that he’d be pretty useless in Shanks teams. This is awesome!
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u/Multifrank504 Single Pull Legend Boys Jul 12 '18
V2 shanks getting captain swapped is amazing. He is a great sub due to his lb sailor ability giving 125 to prominent color.
Croc' s swap 4x multiplier is more valuable to me due to not being able to pop raid Lucci's conditional due to debuff protection. Example being Siccilian that uses the team above and this team that i use to fight Opera. http://optc-db.github.io/damage/#/transfer/D2007:99,2007:99,2123:99,2137:99,1880:99,1881:99C37,10B0D0E0Q0L0G0R0S12.02H
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Is Hody there for the Damage Reduction or Cooldown? Or both? He’s probably my most wanted legend out of the top tiers because of how chaotic and fun he seems
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u/Multifrank504 Single Pull Legend Boys Jul 12 '18
Damage Reduction. You more reliant on food orbs and pinch healing due to Cracker's hp cut turn.
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u/blacksusanoo23 Jul 12 '18
On the bright side raids have been better than ever . since barto aside from tankman they all have been fenomenal.
pink being a amazing sub to pair with Garp on fs teams.
Lucci being a 1.75x conditional that procs his own boost.(and deals a shitload of dmg on BM teams)
Zoro has been a huge MVP recently not even for the affinity but for the amazing utility .
And well cracker is pretty much the way to beat Opera.
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Yea, Zoro’s CA is a testimony of how far raids have come. My only gripe is that the farming isn’t as intuitive and streamlined as in TM
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u/blacksusanoo23 Jul 12 '18
Yeah I'm glad they introduced the chopperman missions on the first day of the raid makes farming them much quicker.
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u/Whadafaag ~Donuts~ Jul 12 '18
I knew I wasn't the only one who had this same thought! The newer tm units aren't as great as cavendish mihawk ace sabo etc. But the rewards of the newer tm are better for sure. I still prefer a top tier tm unit than another dupe legend from 3m and 5m ticket, ,which İ exactly got the last tm. I feel like because of the rewards, the tm units suffer in strength and I don't like where that is heading to
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Jul 12 '18
Yeah I fell the same. But it makes a lot of sense honestly. I mean they probably just realized that they cannot continue releasing these god tier f2p units all the time so they tuned them down a little and as you said, added legend tickets as incentive
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u/Norbertealc Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
Well so far, the most TM units i play are Cavendish and Sabo, the most useful ones. I think Jack will be very useful for many fortnights run, i usually do a Neptune team with dmg special heroes like G4 V2, akainu v1, law and it's good to have another unit that deals a lot of damage. It's also very good in some Colo where u have in the 4th stage to kill the main dude and kill all the small fry. Anyway he is gonna be the mvp for next ranking or something as bandai like it :p
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Next ranking will prob. have a bunch of defensive effects for 2 turns that Jack can conveniently remove
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Jul 12 '18
I’d have to disagree. Yes, units such as Kizaru have been lackluster for TM (and this jack is just disappointing especially when he’d be good if they just got rid of 5 turns instead of 2), but this has been the case since TM WB. Since then there have been TM units with great niche uses for certain situations, but not amazing everywhere. There are still amazing TM units today. Big Mom’s special is amazing and yes her CA is gimmicky, but it can still clear content and brought back a lot of older units (plus it can be argued that G4’s CA is just meh or bad). Croc isn’t really that gimmicky since he gives a rainbow 4x boost with captain swap (gives him great burst use on any non 4x lead team) and as a captain himself while he may only give a 2.5x boost I’d say that’s pretty good for a f2p rainbow lead. There will always be bad or meh TM units. Bandai really just isn’t consistent with pumping out good units (same goes for 6+), but overall I’d say we definitely aren’t going downhill
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
I feel like they haven’t been going downhill per say. Gimicky isn’t bad, Gimicky in my eyes is “Situationally Very Good”, and that is what the more recent TM units are. For example, TM Hawk was a must for every slasher team. TM G4 is a key player in many teams. TM Big Mom is still a key player in many teams (including one of my main G4 V2 teams), but she can’t fit on all teams. To reach full potential, Shirahoshi, Inuarashi, Chain Lockers e.t.c are recommended. Doesn’t make her bad, just a bit situational
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Jul 13 '18
Big mom doesn’t need anything unless you’re doing a full burst with her in which case it’s no different from Mihawk. You’re not doing a full burst with mihawk without an attack booster. Honestly tho big mom can reach a good amount of damage with her special alone and g orbs. With her low CD I personally use her as a mini burst (which I figured was her intended use). I use this team not very f2p, but my point is that with big mom alone it does around 5m to all types. Thats more than enough for mini bosses (and older bosses) and she reaches over 10m with just raid lucci and matching orbs/rainbow. In comparison just Mihawk does around 4m to all types here, but in reality he does significantly less since he isn’t his own orb changer. On the other hand with big mom’s special alone and a good lead you can take down any mini boss or older boss and effectively deal with low orb/attack boosts and doom or badly matching orbs. As a sub you don’t need to build around big mom at all, she’s just a welcome addition. As for units being more gimmicky now once again there have been cases since TM WB (a unit that’s good here or there, but not every where). It’s not new and we’ll see some gimmicky and some good anywhere in the future, bandai just isn’t consistent
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Jul 12 '18
but croc did clear whitebeard invasion..........
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Can you link me a team? I’m not doubting you i’m just legitimately curious
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u/Doffy-Mingo Mingo!!!!! Jul 12 '18
The only recent ones with questionable uses are Croc and Jack. Big Mom is a living monster, Kizaru is amazing, Zoro/Sanji has uses as subs for Nami/Kuzan, and the rest before that are great as well.
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Jul 12 '18
Hell.. you can even use Zoro/Sanji as your captain, and pair with a friend Kuzan (even though you won't get the best out of him). With certain subs you easily get to +10m damage.
I think people need to chill a little bit. The majority of these TM units are crazy good, surpassing by much a lot of the older legends.. and they're free.
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Jul 12 '18 edited Jul 12 '18
I think people need to chill a little bit. The majority of these TM units are crazy good, surpassing by much a lot of the older legends.. and they're free.
Who was arguing they weren't?
OP was saying he felt the last few weren't anywhere near as game-changing, and for the most part he's right. Kizaru and Jack aren't going to make any waves. Jack might if they make damage immunity annoyingly common, but that's not likely.
He said he also felt Big Mom wasn't particularly game-changing, but that's where I'd disagree. She's one of the best, most versatile units in a long time. Her uses as either a captain or a sub for SO many different teams is just unreal.
I'm getting downvoted for... what exactly? Did I say something wrong? I'm not even picking on any units here. Largely, I agree with the OP.
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Jul 12 '18 edited Jul 12 '18
I simply don't see any reason to create a post like that, if your intention is just to say "things have changed", when your points are based on just a few flawed examples.
Whitebeard is a fairly "meh" TM character, just like Kizaru is. Anyone can clearly see that even back then we had some non-god tier TM characters, that weren't that much game-changing at all.
If you're saying that something has ultimately changed, based on two releases that aren't that great, imo, you're complaining for nothing, and you missed the whole point of the event. If from now on, they only release legitimately bad characters, then you would have a point, and I would completely agree with it. But just two? Nah.
To me, since the beginning, it was easy to notice that it wasn't supposed to be an "Always Get A Top Tier Legend-Event Thing", instead, it is an event where people can get good units overall. Some of them are less powerful than others.. so what?
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Jul 12 '18
I simply don't see any reason to create a post like that, if your intention is just to say "things have changed", when your points are based on just a few flawed examples.
Why are they "flawed"?
Whitebeard is a fairly "meh" TM character, just like Kizaru is. Anyone can clearly see that even back then we had some non-god tier TM characters, that weren't that much game-changing at all.
Whitebeard is a character that is somewhat timeless. He is reliant on your enemies having effects that, generally, they will. The exception was when he was released many enemies lacked delay immunity but had counters to it instead, to discourage WB use but also prevent 6*+ Usopp cheesing.
Whitebeard is leagues better than Kizaru. Me at my worst regarding WB (remember /u/JewJulie? Haha...) would have still agreed. Kizaru's captain is actually rather great, but his special is nonsensical. He was made for Legend Nami I think... and honestly, Zoro/Sanji are probably the better TM units for her.
If you're saying that something has ultimately changed, based on two releases that aren't that great, imo, you're complaining for nothing. At least wait until three, or four bad characters were released, then you would have a point, and I would completely agree with it.
What makes it more valid at 4 than it was at 3? Oh right, nothing.
OP pointed out an observation that is true. I don't agree with his points on Big Mom but I do for Kizaru and Jack, that they're rather middle-of-the-road compared to the standard set by most TM units. Is that bad? No. Jack might end up being one of the best units ever if they shoehorn damage immunity into content and stuff.
But OP mentioned that he feels the units are getting more niche as it goes on and I do see and agree with that. We've had three TMs to judge this off of, so three months. I think that's enough to notice a potential pattern shift.
To me, since the beginning, it was easy to notice that it wasn't supposed to be an "Always Get A Top Tier Legend-Event Thing", instead, it is an event where people can get good units overall. Some of them are less powerful than others.. so what?
With all due respect I have to disagree here.
From Mihawk all the way to Z&S, the only "niche" one is... Whitebeard. Everyone else were absolutely stellar units who were definitely Legend quality.
- Mihawk
- Cavendish
- G4
- Ace
- Sabo
- Zoro/Sanji
That's six. Seven if you count WB. I like him, but I'm not sure I'd say he's quite Legend tier.
You keep saying "back then we didn't have god tier TMs", but that's not true at all.
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Jul 12 '18 edited Jul 12 '18
You keep saying "back then we didn't have god tier TMs", but that's not true at all.
I don't think I've ever said that? Maybe you misunderstood it, or I failed to express myself correctly.. I don't know. I'm not an native english speaker, so.. sometimes it's hard.
What I meant is that not every TM character released back then was god tier, or that this was the intention behind the event.
I do think WB is quite mediocre. Cavendish also isn't a god tier character imo.
Also, let me clarify that God Tier ≠ Legend Tier. By God Tier, I mean that they not only fit on the "Legend Level", but would also be on the highest tiers. And let's be real here, to just consider an unit "Legend Tier" doesn't take that much, considering that we have legends like Corazon, Boa, LL, Cavendish and a bunch of others.
What makes it more valid at 4 than it was at 3? Oh right, nothing.
I edited that before you answered, but anyway, I still stand by that point.
I do think that we've had "okayish" TM units before, and that two consecutive releases aren't basis for anything. For all we know, the next TM unit could be insanely good, or awfully useless. If they keep releasing "okay" unit after "okay" unit, then I'll have to accept that the purpose of the Treasure Mode ultimately changed. For now, I do think that they are still doing the same as ever.. there are god tier TM units, and there are okay TM units (some of them that are Niche).
In short, for me, not every TM character is going to be insanely good, and there were some units released back then that shows to that.
P.S: Not gonna talk much about Whitebeard, simply because we have different opinions, and I'm not here trying to convert you to anything. I do think him and Kizaru are kinda in the same tier. Not bad units, but not great either.
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Jul 12 '18
What I meant is that not every TM character released back then was god tier, or that this was the intention behind the event.
They kind of were though.
I do think WB is quite mediocre. Cavendish also isn't a god tier character imo.
3.5x ATK to a class (2x TM Cavendish + Raid Barto is all the PSYs you need, and it has amazing safety due to Barto), and a short CD special that does some orb conversion, buff clearing (which only like two other units do), and a 1.75x ATK + Orb boost isn't god-tier? Why?
He also recovers a huge amount of HP per turn.
Also, let me clarify that God Tier ≠ Legend Tier. By God Tier, I mean that they not only fit on the "Legend Level", but would also be on the highest tiers. And let's be real here, to just consider an unit "Legend Tier" doesn't take that much, considering that we have legends like Corazon, Boa, LL, Cavendish and a bunch of others.
Fair enough.
I do think that we've had "okayish" TM units before, and that two consecutive releases aren't basis for anything
And the only okayish one was WB prior to Kizaru.
Who's going off of merely two though? OP said Kizaru onward, which is actually four.
Kizaru > BM > Croc > Jack.
Even if you're like me and don't count BM as mediocre, that's still 3/4.
If they keep releasing "okay" unit after "okay" unit, then I'll have to accept that the purpose of the Treasure Mode ultimately changed.
Well... that's what this thread is about...
For now, I do think that they are still doing the same as ever.. there are god tier TM units, and there are okay TM units (some of them that are Niche).
What god-tier unit have we had since Zoro/Sanji? Big Mom is the only truly legend quality unit we've gotten since.
In short, for me, not every TM character is going to be insanely good, and there were some units released back then that shows to that.
Other than WB, who?
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Jul 12 '18 edited Jul 12 '18
You should read my last comment again, if you haven't, because I usually edit them a lot.
Anyway, this is going to be my final comment on the topic, simply because as I stated before, I'm not here to change your mind or anything. Also, this take a huge amount of time, considering I have to use Google Translator to some things, lol.
Well... that's what this thread is about...
The thread is OP saying that the focus os the TM has changed, and the whole point I've made is that I don't think so.
I disagree that you should take two consecutive "okayish" characters as a definitive shift in the TM. Because I still think that we've had "okayish" characters before, and that's the point of TM.
If you don't agree with me, that's absolutely fine. You can do that. I don't think that giving a whole bunch of god tier units is the purpose of the event, as stated in my previous comment.
What god-tier unit have we had since Zoro/Sanji? Big Mom is the only truly legend quality unit we've gotten since.
You've said yourself. I like Big Mom, and I think that she's a damn good unit, not the best ever released, but still nonetheless good.
The other two? Yeah, they were "okay" units, and I have no problem with that. There shouldn't be a pattern like "GOD TIER > GOD TIER > OKAY > GOD TIER", or anything like that.
It's fine to release a couple of okay units, and then some god tier ones. This is a damn business after all. If they keep releasing ONLY okay units from now on, then I'll definitely agree with OP. Two releases are no basis to affirm anything imo.
And the only okayish one was WB prior to Kizaru.
Who's going off of merely two though? OP said Kizaru onward, which is actually four.
Kizaru > BM > Croc > Jack.
Even if you're like me and don't count BM as mediocre, that's still 3/4.
I still think WB and Cavendish are simply okay units (if you don't agree with Cavendish, that's fine, your opinion).
Never said that it was "merely two", read my comment again. I said two CONSECUTIVE okay units. Very different.
WB & Cavendish - Kizaru, Croc & Jack; 2-3.
I still think that's absolutely fine, and doesn't means a shift in what I see as the mode's purpose. If you think otherwise, that's fine.
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Jul 12 '18
It's fine to release a couple of okay units, and then some god tier ones. This is a damn business after all. If they keep releasing ONLY okay units from now on, then I'll definitely agree with OP. Two releases are no basis to affirm anything imo.
Two consecutive, but three out of four. All Kizaru needed was an alteration to his special to boost PSY and INT units as well if it was used when he was the captain, but as he is now, he's a confusing unit that doesn't quite work as a captain too well and doesn't quite work as a sub unless you need to avoid a hostile attack boost, or if you can get by with only your captain's type being boosted.
I just thought I'd chime in there. Your points are very well-written and I think we've both learned a lot on the other's insight here.
Also, your English is actually very good---please don't beat yourself up. Your posts are more well-written than those from a great many native English speakers I know.
2
u/xyzqsrbo Jul 12 '18
I think croc is more useful than kizaru. I have used croc way more than kizaru and croc has been out less than him.
1
u/Bluewing42 Quack! Jul 12 '18
I've honestly never seen kizaru used, versus croc is amazing for anything with captain switching.
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u/BH_Shanks Jul 12 '18
Ever since kizaru, there has been no need to make a good time unit to make people invest in TM
This is such a valid and good breakdown. Be prepared, you're gonna get downvoted though; people don't like hearing the truth on this subreddit.
4
u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Thank you man! I felt something was off with Kizaru. A lot of the sub had been baffled at “how bad he was for a TM unit”. This is by no means a fact, just my educated opinion hahaha
0
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u/PatenteDeCorso Jul 12 '18
Well, you can't just keep releasing god tier TM units without putting some okish unit here and there, same happened to raids and Colliseums, but till the date every TM unit is at least good, many of them are great, and some are amazing.
The weakest units, IMO, are Kizaru and Whitebeard, and they are still good units.
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u/fabrizioB97 Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
The weakest is crocodile....I don’t understand why people likes him, except for buggy or neotune teams he is absolutely trash
1
Jul 12 '18
Kizaru, Jack, and Whitebeard want to say hello.
Croc is definitely in that niche pile but he's not the weakest or trash.
2
u/fabrizioB97 Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
Imo whitebeard is not that bad, i liked him since his release even if most of people don’t like it, oh yes is a conditional orb booster, but the condition is to have an antidebuff or antidelay which are active in the 90% of boss fights...fully agree with you for kizaru and jack on the other side
2
Jul 12 '18
WB is definitely more niche than someone like Mihawk or Ace, who are always useful.
That being said, I also use him a lot.
It's amazing that in a vacuum, WB is one of the "lesser" TM units. It goes to show just how amazing the quality of TM units usually are, I think.
1
u/fabrizioB97 Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
Ofc tm characters like ace mama cavendish or mihawk stay in the top rank above other tm legend, but doing a comparison between the current meta, content clearing, ca , sa and in terms of utility this is my list:
- ace
- mama and cavendish
- g4 luffy
- sabo and mihawk
- zoro&sanji and whitebeard
- jack
- crocodile
- kizaru
2
Jul 13 '18
Probably how I'd do it, too. Mihawk is cursed by being Mihawk, but he's such a great unit.
G4 is a decent captain, but his draw really is as a sub. That special is simply amazing.
I'd probably have to agree with that placing for Z&S too. They're great, but can be a bit niche if you lack certain units. They kind of need TM Kizaru as a sub unless you have certain RRs, though.
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u/PatenteDeCorso Jul 12 '18
Debatable, at your burst turn he is a x4 captain, very few units can achieve this...
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u/Bluewing42 Quack! Jul 12 '18
4x boost is trash? He's great for anything of you don't have am optimal captain or if it switches captains.
2
Jul 12 '18
He's not that great at countering captain swapping. It is usually done at the beginning or end of a turn, neither of which Crocodile can counter.
Look at Shiki to see how captain swapping is usually handled.
0
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u/fabrizioB97 Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
But except for beginners anyone has strong leaders with a flat 3,25/3,5 so you don’t need so much that x4 instead of another unit
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u/CosmicCrimsonX2 Promising Rookie Jul 12 '18
Bandai: Shit these players are getting too smart, we need another plan B and think of C,D and E while you're at it, just not Z
-1
u/4PaiZuri Jul 12 '18
Y bother...all players want are likely year 1 or 2 free legend dupes. Bandai. Lets not try to make the mode as fun as big mom anymore.
3
u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Big Mom TM was the most fun in OPTC i’ve had since ever
1
Jul 12 '18
Agreed. Croembouche was a fun fight and added an interesting dynamic to it. BM also had a very good balance for boosted units.
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u/MarromBrown Yummy Meat *munch munch* Jul 12 '18
Yeah! I got a lot of different teams who synergized well, so I had a blast
44
u/pWneR41 Jul 12 '18
I can understand croc and jack, but big mom is extremely powerful even for full burst turns, and I wouldn't call her gimmicky exactly.