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u/SaltyBarDog Oct 06 '24
What did Andy know?
The committee sent letters to GOP Reps. Mo Brooks of Alabama, Andy Biggs of Arizona and Ronny Jackson of Texas, three conservative lawmakers who have aligned themselves with Trump. Brooks and Biggs are also members of the ultra-right House Freedom Caucus.
Jackson and Biggs quickly ruled out cooperating and accused the committee of sending the requests to the media before them.
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u/moosehq Oct 06 '24
So America has a huge military budget, specifically set up to counter their geopolitical opponents - predominantly China and to a lesser extent Russia. You are literally paying, on the cheap, for another country to fight one of your main enemies, and giving them surplus equipment that you would have to pay to scrap / store anyway. Plus some new shit that again you’d have to manufacture anyway to maintain readiness. Every dollar spent or shell sent to Ukraine gets you an unbelievable roi. Anyone who disagrees with this is being highly disingenuous or is literally working for your opponents.
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u/Impossible-Invite689 Oct 06 '24
Weird they complain about this but not things like the reason you have so much fuckin useless government subsided corn, because it's basically the same reason.
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u/_owlstoathens_ Oct 06 '24
Or the Covid moneys that went to large business unchecked and with no recourse to fraud
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u/Promking69_ Oct 06 '24
And also theyre not blank checks they're for very specific amounts of money ya horses ass.
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u/cjmar41 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
They’re not even that.
We send Ukraine old equipment. Then money is earmarked to replace it with new equipment here, through defense contracts awarded to US companies employing US citizens.
Now… the wastefulness of the US military industrial complex is a very real thing and another discussion all together.
But the reality is, this money “being given to Ukraine” is actually just being given to massive American corporations, creating jobs, boosting the economy, and putting money back into American communities.
And… Ukraine will have to pay us back for the old equipment we sent them anyway. It’s a win-win for the US, assuming Ukraine doesn’t lose.
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u/newsflashjackass Oct 06 '24
I would rather give old military hardware to Ukraine than U.S. cops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police#United_States
Although maybe there could be a "cash for clunkers" for U.S. military equipment where the old weapons are just destroyed instead of resold.
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u/DragonsDogMat Oct 06 '24
The US donated 24 Himars to Ukraine.
Poland saw how well they work and placed orders for 500 new Himars for themselves.
Himars are manufactured in Arkansas; Poland is a US ally.
This is a net positive event for everyone.
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u/275MPHFordGT40 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
I am actually quite confused as to why Republicans are so mad about this war. War has nearly always been great for our economy, especially one where we are hardly involved except for sending equipment to our ally. World War 2 literally got us out of the Great Depression.
Actually I’m not confused, if it helps the economy it makes Biden and Harris look good which could never happen. It also gets in the way of Tzar Putin’s commands.
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u/-Badger3- Oct 06 '24
All those old weapons finally doing what they were designed to do, kill Russians, and republicans are suddenly against it lol
We’re using a fraction of our military budget to decimate Russia’s military, without putting American troops on the line. It’s such a fucking obvious investment.
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u/Acidcouch Oct 06 '24
Plus it forces us to replace the sent materials to up our own stockpiles. Thus feeding more into the military industrial complex and providing more jobs in the US economy as well as GDP growth. Win
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u/PreviousCurrentThing Oct 06 '24
With how great of a deal it is, why don't we just double our military budget? We can spend more money, and it goes right into the pocket of the American worker. Seems win-win for everyone!
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Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
This feels so completely contrary to what I have heard and read that i need to look into it.
edit:
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040 ~ i thought the total sent was 160 billion so there might be numbers missing from here
Based on this, sure, the above seems accurate. As for the Ukraine paying the USA back, I doubt that will happen. The USA has trillions in debt to china that they don't and likely wont pay back. It would take something like 40 years of the HUGE national military budget ($883b) to pay back the national debt. Actually, seems doable, but still, not sure if feasible.
So yeah, you can debate the ukraine being a wise amount spent or not, fact is we waste WAAAAAAY more at home on other things. I guess people are just more willing to attack foreigners getting money from the taxes than their countrymen pocketing it. Because thats what happens with government contracts (not just the military contracts) ~ politicians, council members, clerks and so on organize contracts in the way that best suits them. Nepotism is alive and well in western government.
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u/moosehq Oct 07 '24
Are you saying the US is going to default? You have no idea what you are talking about mate.
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u/ShareMission Oct 07 '24
Lol, the old debt to China gag. It's dividends on bonds we sell them. So sick of hearing this. Only one person has ever mentioned this in my presence, and he doesnt know how literally anything works.
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u/Tronbronson Oct 06 '24
Who's upvoting this trash, the us pays back its debts on time, thats why we have a strong credit rating, and thats why people buy our debt.... the rest of the lies your spewing someone else can correct.
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Oct 06 '24
Why do you think the USA pays it's debts back on time? Why has the national debt been going up for the past 2 decades and not down?
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u/cjmar41 Oct 06 '24
You can accrue more debt while paying existing debt back within the agreed terms. Debt going up has nothing to do with not paying it back.
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Oct 06 '24
Ok... sure... but why did they need to suspend the debt ceiling in 2023? At the moment they have no limit to how much they are allowed to borrow, and the federal reserve just prints more whenever the government asks - literal infinite money glitch. I guess if you consider that, then sure they pay it back with inflated dollars they pull out of their butt
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u/moosehq Oct 07 '24
Because they wanted to sell more bonds. It doesn’t mean they stopped paying back the existing ones. The US defaulting on its debts would be a huge deal and would send shockwaves through the global economy.
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u/moosehq Oct 07 '24
That’s not how national debt works. Just because they’re selling more bonds doesn’t mean they’ve stopped paying back the existing ones!
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Oct 06 '24
Also, rude. Im not trying to lie to anyone. Happy to be corrected and proven wrong. Meany.
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u/Tronbronson Oct 08 '24
k. Well Lets start with who holds all the treasuries. Do you understand what the treasury market is? Do you understand how interest rates work? Do you understand how retirement portfolios work? I'm going to help you understand but I need to know where to start. Here is a list of foriegn entities holding our debt. You will see our two biggest allies are also our top 3 bond holders along with China. We cannot screw china without screwing Japan, UK and everyone else on this list....Including the US public. If you have a 401k it probably has US debt in it.
https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/slt_table5.html
here is the info on tresuries held by the US public.
Would you like to know more?
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u/Tronbronson Oct 08 '24
You are a misinformation spreading liar, by intention or not doesn't matter to me, take that pro russian talk back to russia. You've got a trench to occupy they're invading your motherland and the US will be paid back by russia when Ukraine wins the war =D
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u/caaknh Oct 06 '24
The US national debt isn't as big of an issue as it's often portrayed. In 40 years assuming 3% inflation rate, the debt will be 70% lower as a percentage of GDP. It really is a problem that will solve itself so long as we don't keep adding to it faster than inflation.
In 2022 alone, the unexpected 8% inflation rate on $30T in debt was a loss of value by the debt holders of $2.4 trillion dollars -- almost three times the military budget. And as the safest asset in the world, US gov't pays the lowest interest rates.
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u/ShareMission Oct 06 '24
In reality, munitions are only usable for so long. Explosives can go bad..
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u/ravnhjarta Oct 06 '24
It is exactly this. But so many people have their head up their own arse to see otherwise. Or they're twisting the narrative to fit their goals. Or both.
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u/garbageou Oct 06 '24
Do you have a source for this? Redditors keep spreading it but have never proven it.
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Oct 06 '24
it's how lend lease works you disingenuous donkey.
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u/garbageou Oct 06 '24
As of October 1, 2023, the act has been terminated since the fiscal year of 2023 has been over, without any use of Lend-Lease. That is not proof of anything. You resort to name calling because you don’t have real proof of the claim.
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u/cjmar41 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
Do you have proof the US is delivering briefcases of cash to Ukraine? Because the internet keeps saying we are just giving them money, but I haven’t seen any proof.
Since they are not rolling $100 bills into paper balls and throwing them at Russian troops, what do you believe we are giving them? War fighting equipment, right?
Since they need the equipment now, what do you think we are giving them? Equipment we already have.
If we do that, what do we need to do about the equipment we gave away? Replace it, right?
Who do you think replaces it? Defense contractors... Lockheed Martin, Northrop Gumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics, etc. These companies employee hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans, collectively. These are Americans that live and work in the very communities the rest of us live.
Everything you need to know can be found on congress.gov if you're willing to dig a little. Coupled with a little bit of common sense and an, at least, elementary understanding of the economy, it's pretty easy to piece it together.
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u/floppyjedi Oct 06 '24
Donations like this, historically, mostly go to corruption. Making the whole war something that mostly just lines the pockets of high-status, entrenched people on both sides. Even if it was "very specific amounts for very specific purposes", you'd know there was 50% extra on the bill.
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u/DragonsDogMat Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
Explosives have a best before date because their chemical compositions break down.
If a weapon system expires, it must be rotated to a facility that can replace and dispose of expired explosives, propellants, and fuels. This is expensive.
Alternatively, munitions near their expiry date can be shipped to Ukraine, where they will be used as intended. This is less expensive.
The cost of munitions donated to Ukraine is tracked at the historical purchased price, not the value of life remaining. You are literally giving away bread about to go stale and complaining its too expensive while already planning to buy yourself new bread.
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u/Arthuraouture Oct 06 '24
Why does he look like a baby that grew taller and chubbier but just not older?
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u/evil_timmy Oct 06 '24
Blank checks? We're basically surplussing good artillery plus a bunch of the oldest serviceable gear we've got, it's not like we're sending them gift cards for Bass Pro Shop out of the family emergency fund.
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u/floppyjedi Oct 06 '24
Don't think this is a good representation of this subreddit given such badjacketing is getting old af, nothing novel.
Also the responding account doesn't even seem to exist. And the screenshot has likes cropped off. The entire sentence is not found on google even.
If something, the response seems astroturfed. And that's not what I expected to find out at first.
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u/PBPunch Oct 06 '24
How interesting that these congressmen always attack the money going to Ukraine but never Israel. Hmmmm wonder why…
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u/chainsawx72 Oct 06 '24
Everyone I disagree with is a Russian puppet.
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u/ExpertRegister1353 Oct 06 '24
Says the Russian puppet
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u/chainsawx72 Oct 06 '24
Oh you're gonna love that I know that the part of Ukraine that the Russians took was under control of pro-Russian Ukrainians for 10 years before the start of the war. That's why that region fell the same day as the attack. They did not resist.
The two territories have been led by pro-Russia separatists for nearly a decade.
Luhansk and Donetsk are key to the latest escalation in the Ukraine crisis : NPR
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u/Infinite-Club4374 Oct 06 '24
Were not sending them checks. Were sending them weapons, which are purchased from American companies.
Not only are we spending the money domestically were getting our equipment battle tested, and they're dismantling an adversarial army. Its a win/win/win for the us.
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Oct 06 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Smooth-Reason-6616 Oct 06 '24
Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
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u/jennasea412 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
He’s also a traitor, who wanted a pardon from another Russian puppet & traitor🤡
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u/Arcanto672 Oct 06 '24
I'm not from the US. Could someone explain the whole "Russian puppets in Congress"? This doesn't make any sense to me.
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u/WanderThinker Oct 06 '24
It's becoming painfully obvious now.
I hope people are paying attention, but I'm jaded... and so fucking tired.
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u/davegammelgard Oct 06 '24
Unfortunately with people like Biggs and MTG being a horrible person isn't disqualifying, it's a requirement. Only a Republican will win the general election, and only a MAGAt will win the primary. SOURCE: I live in Biggs' district.
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u/omegaman101 Oct 06 '24
Does anyone ever wonder if there was politicians in the US in the 40s going "No more blank cheques to the Soviets" because a part of me definitely thinks that happened, history may not repeat itself but oh does it rhyme.
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u/onioning Oct 06 '24
Friendly reminder that the money we "give" Ukraine is actually spent paying Americans. They're subsidies for our industry. Military aid is essentially a jobs program, and good jobs at that.
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u/APhoneOperator Oct 06 '24
Funny, I wasn’t aware all those checks didn’t have numbers, and Ukraine is filling them in with numbers lower than a years worth of American defense spending.
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u/ricardoandmortimer Oct 06 '24
Anybody who claims Russia has any real influence over anything is spreading misinformation.
There have literally been studies and government oversight into the matters and their impact is vanishingly small.
To suggest otherwise is spreading misinformation
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u/Otherwise-Pumpkin-59 Oct 06 '24
all their votes are dictated by their biggest donators... ignorance is bliss
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u/KingJacoPax Oct 06 '24
This is such a BS argument anyway. Firstly, who’s writing “blank cheques”? Very specific sums have been earmarked for aid to Ukraine and the government is incapable of exceeding those unless Congress signs off. That’s like, the polar fucking opposite to a blank cheque.
Secondly, the money isn’t even going to Ukraine. It’s going to hard working Americans in the defence manufacturing industry, who make the bombs, bullets, medical kits, uniforms, etc which is going to Ukraine. If you want a purely selfish argument to carry on our policy, you can look at what the effect of cutting off aid would be to our own unemployment figures.
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u/TronMechaborg Oct 06 '24
The most dangerous thing I can imagine is pretending like anyone against pushing for more armament and funding for a war in Europe is just a "Russian Puppet"...
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u/manymoreways Oct 07 '24
There never was any blank cheques to Ukraine. If there was ever any blank cheques to Ukraine, the war would be over within a year. These fucking morons don't even know their own jobs.
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u/embalmed_ Oct 07 '24
It's crazy how they're not even checks it's not even money it's just more money actually being funneled to America to make more weapons to give to Ukraine. It's not cash. And what's even more funnier is it's not even a less than 10% fraction of what the military complex spends it's literally nothing. It's barely an investment and they're still kicking Russia's ass.
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u/EfficientAccident418 Oct 07 '24
I love how congresspeople vote on bills and then blame someone else for the outcome
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Oct 07 '24
Those disingenuous fucks know good and well the “blank check to Ukraine” is actually a blank check to the American Weapons Industrial Complex. Then those war profiteering fucks turn around and fund the same GQP politicians who muddy the water to stay in power and make further political gains.
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u/baltcre8 Oct 07 '24
I am so ashamed that he is the Rep for my district and I consistently vote for his opponent.
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u/Odd-Cress-5822 Oct 07 '24
Reminder that Ukraine aid is spent in the US on American arms, in many cases specifically invested in our domestic capacity to manufacture weapons and ammo faster and cheaper.
Any representative knows this, or at least should as it is literally in the bill. So they are either too stupid to realize how increasing our manufacturing capacity while actively weakening a hostile nation at no risk to American troops is a pure win, or they explicitly wish to sabotage the national interest
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Oct 07 '24
A lot of these traitors are just following their Christian Nationalist masters orders. The Christian Nationalists behind project 2025 are the ones working with Russia. I imagine they rationalize it by saying it’s for god.
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u/CollectedHappy3 Oct 07 '24
Who fuckin cares about Russia. Stop all foreign spending we have enough issues stateside to be dealing with. I don't give a shit what happens in Europe. I don't care about the middle east and I could care less about China. We need investment here not abroad.
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u/Wooden_Number_6102 Oct 08 '24
I think he's sort of missed the complete point of "allies". The guys who strap on and boot up for this country when we've needed them to. Like the Kurds and damn donald for leaving them to face their own extinction alone. We'll never get the Taliban out of Afghanistan cuz donald sent them all home (like they'll EVER kiss his broad backside). Rep. biggs has GOT to go, along with all those other jackasses who equate conservatism with isolation. I remember all the nations that stood with us in the Middle East when Bush sent our troops on the Revenge Tour. If donald gets back in OUR House again, we won't have any allies left. We'll have new ones (looking at China and Russia). And won't that be a hoot.
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u/notmyfirstrodeo2 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
US don't send blank checks to Ukriane...
These stooges are so desperate, they are making horrific stuff up and twisting truth, and their followers will eat it - this is the same way people in Kreml got into power, remember that
Down voters won't change truth. US is not sending blank checks...
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u/Karl2241 Oct 06 '24
As someone who works in the aerospace defense sector- this kills me. We don’t send blank checks or pallets of money. When they approve a 35 million dollar military aid package- that means we are giving them our old stuff to the tune of that much money and our military gets 35 million dollars worth of new stuff. Now sure in some cases it’s just money- but that is typically money for rebuilding cities. This has made our military stronger.
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u/Balmung5 Oct 06 '24
Counterproposal, we give Ukraine a blank check so big, it covers everything they could ever need. Support Ukraine today, or bury your children in twenty years.
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u/T-A-W_Byzantine Oct 06 '24
No, more blank checks to Ukraine!
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/T-A-W_Byzantine Oct 06 '24
I'm not repeating literal Russian propaganda. I'm making a Simpsons reference. (And if we were sending actual 'blank checks', I'd support it.)
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u/Friendly-Disaster376 Oct 06 '24
Are we even sending actual cash to Ukraine? I thought it was mostly weapons, of which we have enough to destroy humanity a million times over. I think we can spare some.
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u/Proper-Mongoose4474 Oct 06 '24
this is why, as a european, the upcoming election is worrying me to death. putin is already on a rampage trying to take back land he feels was russian but there is a lot more he wants.
with a complete and total russian puppet in charge of the US, putin will have literally zero oppsition.
all because some Americans think gas would be cheaper (it wont be) under trump.
this is horrifying.
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u/ProfessionalPush6542 Oct 06 '24
Andy's probably almost fluent in Russian by now. He seems to be kind of a Putin guy.
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u/CoolnessEludesMe Oct 06 '24
No shit. America is supposed to be the Arsenal of Democracy! We should be sending the 82nd Airborne in to kick the aggressors out and restore the borders. We are supposed to be the Liberators! The WWII generation is called the Greatest generation for a reason. Want to make America great again? Do the right thing!
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u/Sad-Guarantee-4678 Oct 06 '24
It's so bizarre to me that the supposed "murica" party is dickriding their greatest enemy, who despises them, considers them an enemy state and wishes for their demise. The cold war era conservatives are either spinning in their graves or getting gaslit into supporting this idiocy
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u/Redtardiness Oct 06 '24
They're not blank cheques, though, are they? It's an investment in planetary secular, pluralistic democracy.
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u/t23_1990 Oct 06 '24
These no "more aid to Ukraine/others, help Americans!" fools are so easy to break. Just ask them about their views on the college debt relief, and see how quickly they show their hate for fellow Americans.
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u/new2accnt Oct 06 '24
Right-wingers love to complain about imaginary "blank cheques to Ukraine", they keep picturing pallets of cash being shipped out to that embattled country and how Ukraine gets gazillions of dollars whilst "poor americans" get only 750$ (always that number) after getting hit by a natural disaster, etc.
Reality is that Ukraine is getting military (and some financial) aid through an eye-drop approach, getting just enough not to lose and their society not to collapse, but not enough to repel russians out of its borders and win (yet).
Most of the military aid is military gear that is reaching EOL, that is cheaper to ship over to Ukraine than to properly dispose of in the USA, with some of it being sent a bit before that. Most of the money that allocated for military aid to Ukraine is actually spent in the USA to build replacement stuff for what is being shipped out, like a stimulus package.
Furthermore, from relatively early on, Ukraine has somewhat complained about alll sorts of limitations imposed on it by the USA: don't strike inside Russia, or not too deep in Russia, don't use our weapons to strike Russia itself, etc.
It's anything but a "blank cheque".
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u/PolarAntonym Oct 06 '24
Reality is that Ukraine is getting military (and some financial) aid
Yeah, only 33 billion so far in financial aid. Nbd...
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u/MeBollasDellero Oct 06 '24
…and…another political fanatic post.
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u/mikemakesreddit Oct 06 '24
And...you spend your time clicking on posts like this to repeat the same dumb shit. While also regularly sharing your tedious political opinions
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u/MeBollasDellero Oct 06 '24
That’s the issue. I don’t check on posts. Idiots post politics that is just regurgitated over and over.
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u/poshlivyna1715b Oct 06 '24
You can tell the Russian stooges because they all desperately want Trump to win