r/JewsOfConscience • u/ShishKabobCurry • 11d ago
Celebration As Someone Who Grew Up Muslim. I’m Thankful My Friend Showed Me This Subreddit
I grew up in a Muslim household. In a large Muslim community in Michigan
I was always told Jews have no soul or care what they do to the Palestinians and what happens in GAZA
I found that hard to believe but considering I haven’t spent much time with many Jews I accepted I guess it must be true.
When the war started a year ago and I saw so many innocent lives lost and families who were being destroyed by the Isreali army
My hatred for Jews grew even stronger. I told a friend about 6 months ago why I hated Jews and Isreal and how they are all evil.
My friend was confused and said “don’t you think that’s a bit racist?”
I said no I see the images and what’s happening in Gaza all Jews are evil.
He said “well have you actually talked to someone who is Jewish or family is from Isreal?”
I said well no… but it has to be true. He said he was Jewish and his family is from Isreal… I was shocked since I just assumed he was American
He said his family isn’t very religious
And he himself doesn’t talk about it much… since he wasn’t born there or been there himself… but wanted me to know not all Jews are in agreement with with what’s happening in Gaza
He said his family also disapprove of what’s happening and I shouldn’t just assume every Jew is racist and wants all Palestinians dead.
I of course apologized and didn’t know he was Jewish
He said he understands seeing the news makes him upset too… which I agreed with
He said he comes to this subreddit and I should visit it and try not to see all the Israeli people the same and he was right.
I’m so thankful for this sub and all the people here. We may not be able to solve all the problems and evils of the world
But you guys give me so much hope.
I do believe one day Jews and Palestinians could come together in love and community one day
It may not be tomorrow or next month
But you guys do such a good job here fighting the good fight and speaking truth!
And as a middle eastern man. This may not mean much… but I just want to say thank you to all of you!
May you all find peace and love in this chaotic world of ours :)
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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi 11d ago
Any group is always made up of individuals.. no group of people is all the same... not even "Zionists" but especially not Jews who are so much more than Zionism.
If you can't imagine someone from your community having some evil trait or horrific belief, it's unlikely someone from ours would either. If you know of someone wonderful in your community, chances are there are many like them in ours.
Welcome to the sub!
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u/Matr0ska Ashkenazi 11d ago edited 11d ago
This right here is why people develop animosity towards others based on race/religion/creed/color. When you grow up and/or spend most of your life in a community without much diversity, then you start to believe all the he-said-she bullshit. It's not wonder why people in predominantly White/Jewish/Muslim/etc. communities demonize the others outside of their bubble.
For instance, If conservatives in the deep red south spent some time getting to know some gay or trans people, they might actually start to think "hey, maybe they're not ALL pedos trying to molest my kids and turn them into gay socialists. They just want the same as any other person. To be treated with respect, dignity, and granted equality." My girlfriend actually got her parents to go to a drag show and they had a blast! They're still hardcore Trumpists, but it's a step in the right direction at the very least. I find people respond better when you don't lecture them and they figure it out on their own through exposure.
Also, welcome to the sub! Much respect for reaching out and starting a dialogue✌️.
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u/Silver-bullit 11d ago
Teach your family. Anti-semitism is absolutely forbidden in Islam. The idea that Jews have no soul is ludicrous, nowhere that is stated either in the Quran or the hadith. You don’t want it to be held against them on the day of judgement while Allah provided you with the insight to prevent that.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 11d ago
Might be a little harder since I left Islam lol
But yes I have brought up not all Jews are evil and many disagree with the war!
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u/Gilamath Non-Jewish Ally 11d ago
Just to be clear about this in a Jewish space, we should acknowledge the fact that there is no correlation between being Jewish and being evil, period. And in addition, Jewishness -- in the cultural, religious, and ancestral senses alike -- is a powerful tool in the hands of those who want to spread good in the world
I think it's important to say aloud, especially for those of us in this space who come from non-Jewish backgrounds, including those of us who are Muslim and/or come from Muslim communities. Muslims and Jews have often been manipulated by various political powers into antagonistic relationships that ultimately benefited whatever holders of power have pushed the agenda of animosity, whether it be new dynasties in places Andalusia or Yemen trying to strengthen a weak claim to power or Western politicians trying to further their hegemonic interests. Muslim-Jewish solidarity is a matter of existential importance, in my opinion, and creates opportunities for mutual thriving
It's really admirable that you're willing to look beyond bigoted beliefs that you learned and absorbed earlier in life and are publicly acknowledging where you fell short and where you're growing now. I hope and believe that you will feel the positive effects of your efforts for the rest of your life. It's a powerful example that everyone can learn from. Kudos to you!
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u/ShishKabobCurry 11d ago
Of course, I have some really good friends. I’ve made in the Judaism religion and faith. They are not evil. Nor would I assume someone who is Jewish is evil
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u/acacia_tree Reform Ashkie Diasporist 10d ago
The biggest trick ever played on Jews and Muslims by European Christians is that we are enemies, when it was European Christianity that persecuted both of us.
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u/Silver-bullit 11d ago
Oh, what a pity. Hopefully you will one day return.
Just emphasizing that is already important. Challenging them to bring Islamic sources that say that Jews have no soul might also help👍
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u/gatoescado Arab Jew, Masorati, anti-Zionist, Marxist 11d ago
I think you meant well here, but remember that it is entirely between OP and HaShem if they will one day return to Islam or not. Respectfully, I don’t think we should be suggesting how OP should orient themselves towards to Islam or any religion. Especially when we don’t know OP and their story.
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u/Silver-bullit 10d ago
True, it’s more that if they are muslims, they might be receptive to these arguments. That was my point actually
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u/ShishKabobCurry 11d ago
I have a problem with most man-made religions, but that’s me don’t need to get into it
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u/Silver-bullit 11d ago edited 11d ago
I understand, but they might be swayed by it. You can taunt them they don’t even know their own religion😬😋
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u/reddit4ne 10d ago
Why did you leave Islam, just out of curiosity?
Did it occur to you that perhaps your understanding of Islam was distorted by the society you grew in, much like the understand of Judaism is often distorted by Zionists?
I find it hard to believe, that people who have ethical values of justice and equity, would leave Islam unless their understanding of Islam has been shaped and distorted by the society they live in.
I say this because I believe all major Abrahamic religions have at their core values of justice and equity and compassion. For example, most of the Jews in this subreddit are upholding those core values, and are therefore truly Jewish, practicing the religion of Judaism.
What would lead you to move away from Islam -- not the distortion of Islam that is ofteen seen in practice -- but the core religion itself, what core ethical and moral values did you find to be fundamentally incompatible?
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
I have a huge problem with religion in general and any God that is homophobic and sexist will not be a God I worship
Thankfully I don’t believe in a God who is like that
I believe God loves and forgives everyone no matter their religion or background. Gender or sexual preference
I don’t subscribe to any religious affiliates personally
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u/Random-weird-guy Atheist 10d ago
Also be careful not to mix up Israel and Judaism.
Not all the Israelis are Jewish and nor all the Jewish are Israelis.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
Thanks I’ll try to remember that.
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u/deadlift215 Jewish Anti-Zionist 10d ago
Yes I came here to say this. Zionists routinely conflate Zionism with Judaism including diaspora Judaism. They want to claim higher numbers than they have! Many Jews have never been to Israel and don’t have any connection to it at all or in my case, I went once and was disgusted at the apartheid and hypocrisy.
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u/Artistic-Vanilla-899 Non-Jewish Ally 8d ago
Conflating Judaism and Zionism seems to be a tool of political opportunists and propagandists. Zionists of all stripes, especially in media and politics, around the world assume it without thought. Netanyahu and others weaponizes it to obtain impunity by saying criticism of the government of Israel's policies is antisemitism. On the other side, antisemitism in say Iran or across Mena, sometimes develops out of disdain for what Zionism has done to their communities, in forms of, for example Holocaust denialism. Still, even in Iran, Jews are granted guaranteed seats in government and even serve in the Iran's armed forces. Ecen Hezbollah's long-time leader recently assassinated, would distinguish Zionists from Jews on general. I guess it's a lot of who is in power using ideologies that become dominant to see things in a certain way that encourage hatred of others. In many ways hatred is a political tool and gains traction when freedom of speech and thought are restricted.
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u/suaveponcho Jewish Anti-Zionist 10d ago edited 10d ago
I had the opposite parallel experience. I was told in my Zionist upbringing (which I’ve since left behind) that all the Arabs just wanted to kill us… that they hated us for being Jewish and that all of them are taught as children to kill the Jews. I still know a great many Jewish people that hold onto these bigoted beliefs because the propaganda is very powerful, and the media in North America is doing a disastrous job of reinforcing every bad narrative to divide us. This is why I’ve tried very hard to point out the Jewish presence at Pro-Palestine protests to my family and friends to combat the claims that it’s just a sea of millions of rabid Jew-haters.
A lot of people in my community genuinely believe that October 7th, and for some even every war that Israel’s ever fought, have happened for no conceivable reason beyond antisemitism. I actually heard at a Pro-Israel rally I was covering (journalistically, not out of support) in Toronto that the people of Gaza had it good before Oct 7th but they threw it all away for their hatred.
It’s worth remembering we Jews are taught to fear the Arab, and so what you perceive as a lack of empathy is something deeper and more complicated. You see Israel using the language of Nazis, the Marshall Plan, Dresden, Hiroshima, etc. The prevailing Zionist narrative is that the Holocaust is proof of the need for Israel. In that same vein an inherent, home-grown Arab antisemitism continues this narrative into the present, and gives us all good cover to basically say “why should I feel compassion for the Palestinians? Would you ask me to feel compassion for the Germans?” This is also why I push back against the idea that Dresden or Hiroshima were acceptable because Germany and Japan had evil governments. The dead children of Hiroshima certainly didn’t endorse the rape of Nanjing.
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u/pomegranie Jewish Anti-Zionist 10d ago
it takes a very brave person to admit when they’ve been wrong and extend the olive branch the way you have. i also hope one day we all can come together in peace and love, but until then i am proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
Thanks man! Appreciate the kind words!
It’s easy to change your mind when false information is spread and gets corrected thankfully in my case
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u/Zellgun Non-Jewish Ally 10d ago
Honestly, I live in a Muslim majority country that is strongly anti-Israel but this can oftentimes be misconstrued or manipulated into antisemitism which is used a lot by the extreme right and Islamists for politics. Antisemitism is real, but in most cases it’s simply due to lack of exposure, lack of education and just ignorance.
I’m privileged enough to study internationally and meet many Jews. I was always generally pro Palestinian but I was never fully educated and it was this fantastic lecturer, a Canadian Jew who taught a very balanced Israeli-Palestine conflict course that really made me learn more about both sides of the conflict. (Mira Sucharov was her name and she’s done some good stuff online, although I can tell she’s still very careful about her messaging in regards to being anti-Israel).
Since then I’ve been exposed to so many fantastic Jews who are not only against Israeli occupation and treatment of Palestinians but are actively doing their part to change that. Like shout out to the Jews working in Breaking the Silence, B’TSelem, Yesh Din, Rabbis for Human Rights, they don’t have to help the Palestinians but they do and they do more than any of my Muslim brothers and sisters have ever done for Palestinians.
This is why while local people are blasting all footage of corpses and war crimes, I’m sharing stories about the Jews speaking out, the Jews coming together in Grand Central to protest, the Jewish students who took time out of their days to protest on their campuses, the Israelis Jews that accompany Palestinian farmers and face the aggressive settlers, the Jews protecting the aid trucks, the Jews actually willingly going to jail to avoid participating in genocide.
These are the Jews that my people don’t know about and exposing them to all the good work is the first step to tackle antisemitism. My country doesn’t recognise Israel at all, which is funny because it’s the only country that’s actually printed in our passports to say that it can’t be used to go there.
But I think we need to connect with the anti Zionist Israeli Jews to help develop a deeper bond and empower them to commit change. Because honestly, none of us outsiders can change Israel and there’s only so much we can do to help Palestinians when the Israelis reverse everything later. None of us can save the Palestinians. Only Israelis themselves can change their country. And all of us, Jews, Muslims and alike need to focus on helping those Jews end the occupation and end the suffering.
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u/BolesCW Mizrahi 10d ago
Welcome!
It took close to five years of soul searching and study of history (especially Rashid Khalidi) for me to break away from the zionist indoctrination of my youth. The definitive break came in 1982, when public and vocal anti-zionist Jews were outliers. Meeting Palestinians was part of my process, but not the most important part. The most important part was really internalizing the lessons of my teachers about Jewish ethics ("Justice, Justice you shall pursue"), especially after the Shoah; most of my peers were in that "progressive except for Palestine" swirl of unexamined contradiction because of paranoia about another Shoah being both possible and likely (my French-Algerian mother, of blessed memory, was especially traumatized by close family being murdered in the camps -- but even she, toward the end of her life, could no longer tolerate what the Israelis were doing in her name). As I learned more about my family's own history, I came to understand how politicians have manipulated that history to serve their own ends at the expense of the actual lived history of Jews from MENA.
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u/Maximum_Watch69 Non-Jewish Ally 11d ago
The loudest voices are always the weakest/ least logical ones.
Personally I am not optimistic regarding Israelis and Palestinians working together inside Israel/Palestine. As the difference is just too far to bridge, and conceding any ground is viewed as betrays.
My only hope is dissident voices would come together abroad, and provide some sort of space for corporations or simple achievable goals to reach.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 11d ago
Well. As a middle eastern man who started making more friends who are Jewish here in USA at least
There could be more hope than we think :)
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u/naushad2982 11d ago
Allah judges us individually. He doesn't hold us accountable for the sins of our father's so to say.
The same way we don't blame the whole Jewish community we only blame those who are open with their intentions and actions.
As individuals we can be best of friends with each other as long as we don't transgress Allah's commands.
And finally remember on the day of judgement we will be made to answer for our actions even to the non belivers.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 11d ago
I’m not Muslim anymore but I still have Muslim family and friends.
It is something I will bring up to my family next time I talk to them
You made some good points.
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u/MooreThird Anti-Zionist 11d ago
Salam from Malaysia, brother. It's good to know a fellow Muslim who has gone through the same struggles as I am.
It's unfortunate for me to live among those who harbour hatred for the Jews just because of what the Israelis did to the Palestine, and even harder to prove that there are Jews who do defend the rights of Palestinians, Muslims & Arabs everywhere.
I came to this sub to meet more Jewish people who don't agree with the Zionists, and vent my frustration to them about putting up with both Western liberals, and fundamentalists, who wouldn't recognize Palestinian rights. It felt good knowing that there are Jews who understand our struggles as much as we've understand theirs.
Just wish I have a chance to meet more Muslims like you, and also the kind Jewish allies here on this sub.
Shukran, brother.
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u/khanikhan 10d ago
Same here. Our communities behave the same way and it's a jihad we fight everyday.
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u/ignoramus_x Jewish Anti-Zionist 10d ago
❤️💚🤍🖤
The brainwashed zionists try to gaslight the world into thinking they represent all Jewish people, that their actions are on our behalf. It is a total lie, a manufactured falsehood that foments antisemitism across the world. This is their goal - to isolate us from the rest of the world. I will never forget and I will never forgive their acts of atrocity against the Palestinian people, and I will never forgive them for desecrating the memories of my ancestors.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
Yeah that is really sad to hear and your right… and r is sickening
I have started to fight for the rights of Palestinians and the people of Israel who want none of this.
I will defend my Jewish brothers and sisters who ever it is and where ever it is… who try to spread racism and violence against you
We are all in this together 🤜
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u/tomas_diaz 10d ago
a perfect example of how zionism causes antisemitism. similar to how isis causes islamophobia.
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u/Water_My_Plants1982 Jewish Anti-Zionist 10d ago
Welcome! Im an antiZionist Jew also in Michigan. We exist I promise. I know more anti zionist Jews here than you think. The problem is some of them are too afraid to tell people publicly. I cant imagine how it feels to hear news everyday and fear for the lives of your loved ones constantly.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago edited 9d ago
Thank you and yes we are both being targeted by the crazies
I prayed for the woman and her family/ community who got shot in Bloomfield
I still have a hard time believing that wasn’t a targeted event.
I will defend any of my brothers and sisters who are Jewish as much as my own Muslim family!
We are in this together!
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u/Ali13929 Anti-Zionist Ally 10d ago
I have a Jewish bestfriend of 5 years. I knew the conflict was going on but not to this extent. When stuff really went down I avoided him for a while when in college because I was afraid of what he would say. I was afraid of him saying he supports Israel because he’s a close friend of mine and seeing fellow Muslims get killed broke me down in ways I didn’t think possible through a screen.
Now fast forward a few months later and we finally talked again while playing games. Palestine came up and he’s exact words were “f*** Israel”. Now as a Muslim guy who was afraid of his thoughts, when he said that I was so confused and I asked “you don’t support Israel?” He reminded me “supporting the Jewish religion and supporting a land that has a people who commit murder are two entirely different things.”
My point in bringing this up is I had your thought process with my bestfriend! And he showed me how ignorant I was. I ever since then I’ve learned to do more research and I’ve never felt more close to the Jewish community that supports the Palestinian people. He switched back on me and made realize that just like how people call Muslims terroisits, that’s not the case. It’s all about perspective. Your valid to feel you the way you do as long as you remain open minded and you did. I’m happy you found the proper answer like I did. I pray that everyone finds the peace to be brothers and sisters despite difference in beliefs.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
Yeah it’s quite amazing how many Jewish folks I know who really hate what’s happening with GAZA and Israel
We should never misjudge anyone just by their race, or religion
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u/acacia_tree Reform Ashkie Diasporist 10d ago
My Muslim friends always tell me Jews and Muslims are cousins. The Islamic world sheltered Jews who escaped persecution in Christian Europe for centuries. I think the greatest lie ever told to us was that Jews and Muslims are enemies.
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u/Long-You-3897 10d ago
I'm from a city in Michigan with large Muslim and Jewish populations. During my childhood, I heard a lot of anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim / Zionist rhetoric. But recently I've noticed that the people that I grew up with have been working together, I see my old Jewish classmates picking up signs and going out to protest with my old Muslim classmates over the atrocities being committed by Israel and permitted by our government. Comradery is possible, and it is here, and it is vital to our communities.
I'm very happy that you have been directed to this subreddit! I know it is hard to unpack what you have been raised to believe, and I'm so glad that you are taking steps towards that and have acknowledged that you were wrong.
I don't want to be a broken record in this comment section but there are SO many anti-zionist Jewish people that are speaking out, protesting against Israel. The world is not as black and white as many were raised to believe.
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u/BalsamicBasil Non-Jewish Ally 10d ago edited 10d ago
Kind of amazing that it took finding this sub to come to that conclusion, but I'm so glad you did. I mean, have you not seen the prominence of American Jewish activists as allies in the Palestinian justice movement? Some of the most famous national organizations in the US who are organizing and leading anti-genocide/anti-Zionist protests are Jewish: Jewish Voice for Peace and If Not Now.
Then again, our imperialist corporate mainstream media likes to ignore the Jewish identity of anti-genocide and anti-Zionist activists as much as possible.
As a newcomer, I suggest watching the documentary Israelism (released in 2023 pre-Oct 7th), which is about the experience of American Jews who grew up with really influential Zionist propaganda, but who as adults have become disillusioned, realized they were lied to about Israel-Palestine, realized Zionism goes against Jewish values and who become mobilized into activism against Israel's apartheid, occupation, and ethnic cleansing. One of the main subjects of the documentary, Simone Zimmerman, is the founder of If Not Now.
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u/ShishKabobCurry 10d ago
Actually it took talking to a good friend who I didn’t realize was Jewish to realize how wrong I was
This subreddit is just the icing on the cake 😅
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u/AugustIsFallling Jewish Communist 9d ago
Thank you for sharing, it gives me hope too. I’m Jewish American but I didn’t grow up Zionist and my family doesn’t approve of what’s going on and has been going on. I only recently learned about how strong the programming is for most people growing up I luckily escaped it. It’s not wrong for you to assume most Jewish people will be Zionist, it’s just important and beautiful to have space in your heart to know that not everyone will be.
It’s also important to know that this hatred and belief system is taught it’s not inborn or inherent to anyone. My family and upbringing is Jewish but because my family wasn’t Zionist the morality of this situation became very clear.
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u/Artistic-Vanilla-899 Non-Jewish Ally 9d ago
Second all of this! Seeing people face to face and knowing them allows is to see the human in each other and develop empathy towards one another That is the necessary opposite of viewing a people as a political category or abstraction, like a Hewvir a Muslim or a Christian, etc. The wisest thing I've ever heard was "people are people." They are not labels or bare abstraction.
People living through things and sharing them, telling their individual stories helps us recognize each other's humanity, like in Wiesel's "Night" or a poem by Darwish or meeting a refugee at a bus stop or by chance at a meeting or a class and they tell a little about themselves. We can choose conflict with "others" or we can get to know them and be friends.
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u/gatoescado Arab Jew, Masorati, anti-Zionist, Marxist 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thank you for the kind words bro❤️ It takes a lot of character to overcome those bigoted thoughts you described, and even more character to then publicly admit you were wrong. You should know that many of us here have gone through this exact same experience during our journey of unlearning Zionism. There have been many occasions when I have spoken similar words to Palestinian friends and acquaintances.
But please don’t diminish the value of your statement, especially as an Arab/Middle Eastern man. Yes these exchanges make us all feel good inside, but they are far more valuable than this. No one should dismiss this as meaningless kumbaya…. Anti-Zionist Jews & Arabs/Muslims creating solidarity and kinship, is of tactical importance for Palestinian liberation. Zionism is only strengthened when the Arab and Muslim world expresses bigotry towards Jews. The Zionists do not want you to love the Jews while hating Zionism and Israel. They don’t want you to understand that so many Jews hate Zionism and Israel just like you do. Because they don’t want us to unite and become more powerful