Eating at a Jewish deli which displays the Israeli flag?

[u/LittleLionMan82]

I really want to try this Kosher Deli but I can see from the photos online they got Israeli flags displayed there and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I'm learning towards no since I kind of feel like it'd be the equivalent of eating at a place that displays a Nazi flag.

What do y'all think?

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[u/TinyZoro]

My mum is dying in a Jewish care home in North London. During Israel Independence Day it was covered in Israeli flags. I found it very upsetting. Many of the people living there are too vulnerable to object to this. The idea that being Jewish involves loyalty to a barbaric racist state is one that needs to end with this generation.

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/TinyZoro]

Sorry about your mom, hope she has a peaceful and dignified passing.

[u/idfk78 → u/TinyZoro]

Fortunately, it seems it will. Zionism among anyone under 30 is almost gone.

[u/countingc → u/idfk78]

Zionism seems to be still prevalent among Christians under 30 unfortunately

[u/Welcomefriend2023 → u/countingc]

Evangelical protestants. The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are not zionist.

[u/sallen3679 → u/Welcomefriend2023]

I’m from an interfaith family so attended my dad’s Protestant church every weekend growing up. We live in Australia, and the Protestant church here is not Zionist, I honestly don’t think I’d ever heard modern-day Israel be mentioned at all at church. Most of my Christian friends and family support Palestine (though I’m absolutely not saying that they aren’t prejudiced in other areas). It’s so strange to me that Zionism is such a strong component of the American evangelical church, though considering their track record in terms of racist ideology it’s not completely surprising

[u/Welcomefriend2023 → u/sallen3679]

Its the dispensationalist evangelical protestants.

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[u/Carlsen021 → u/TinyZoro]

Did you register your protest with the Care home? Politely had a word with the manager? No need to make a song and dance about it especially as your Mum is there.

Ps. Sorry to hear about her condition.

[u/richards1052 → u/TinyZoro]

This is par fur the course as far as the organized Jewish community is concerned. They perceive most Jews (ie clients) as pro Israel. Plus their donors are definitely pro Israel. So up goes the patriotic paraphernalia.

[u/havinganicelunch]

you are correct to trust your instincts on this one. it would be a hard no for me

[u/softwareidentity]

I think it's pretty much the equivalent of a nazi flag, if the nazis were currently in power and everyone was aware they were committing genocide

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/softwareidentity]

I wasn't sure if I was being extreme in my thinking but it's good to know that's the consensus.

Thanks.

[u/halfpastnein → u/LittleLionMan82]

That's not extreme at all. it's in fact very grounded in reality.

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[u/reddit_throwaway_ac → u/softwareidentity]

i agree

[u/Anarcho-Flanders]

Nope from me especially if they have signage that indicates they send funds to the IOF

[u/Adept_Thanks_6993]

Are you eating there because it's kosher or because you want to eat there?

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/Adept_Thanks_6993]

Because it's kosher. I can eat halal or kosher and I'm craving a deli sandwich.

[u/reenaltransplant → u/LittleLionMan82]

find another deli

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/reenaltransplant]

Yeah I think that's what I'll do.

There isn't one in my city unfortunately so my craving will have to wait until I visit Toronto.

[u/suaveponcho → u/LittleLionMan82]

Hit up Zelda’s at Yonge and St. Claire when you visit. Right on the subway line

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/suaveponcho]

Oh wow I used to live at Yonge & St. Claire almost twenty years ago.

Never knew there was one there.

[u/Mr7000000]

I'd say that zionist food is more treyf than a cheeseburger with bacon and shrimp.

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/Mr7000000]

treyf?

[u/mermaidunearthed → u/LittleLionMan82]

Means not kosher

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/mermaidunearthed]

Ohhh got it. Thanks.

And to the OC, true.

[u/aniftyquote → u/LittleLionMan82]

Respectfully, best not to weigh in on that kind of thing even in agreement

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/aniftyquote]

Fair enough, thanks.

[u/Nati_Hell]

It is equivalent to a Nazi flag. I’d avoid

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[u/acacia_tree]

Go to a kosher deli owned by Satmars

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/acacia_tree]

There aren't any around me. This was the only kosher deli I found in town.

[u/Welcomefriend2023 → u/acacia_tree]

Great idea! Easy to do in Williamsburg (Brooklyn's Satmar section). Boro Park too, but Crown Heights is Chabad.

[u/Carlsen021]

No. Unless there’s something really special about it.

Or wear a keffiyeh and go in and see what they make of it. I expect they won’t serve you.

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[u/noam99]

There's one really classic Jewish bakery I go to that has two small Israeli flag posters on the walls. It's the only place I go to knowing there's Israeli signage inside, everywhere else I avoid. That being said, it seems most other places' signage is considerably more aggressive. I've seen places that have plastered their windows with "KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS TERRORISTS" posters. Obviously those places I'd never step into. Why do I make an exception with this bakery? Aside from their amazing baked goods, its right by the main University in the city so it services a really diverse population and all their staff are people of colour, giving it a more "community-owned" vibe. It's hard to gather what the owners views are exactly. I guess what I'm saying is: if you're trying your best to avoid clearly zionist-owned businesses, that's great; however, if you're seeking to satisfy a desire for a uniquely "jewish" experience and can only really achieve that by patronizing a questionable business, I wouldn't beat yourself up over it.

[u/romanticaro]

there’s a druze restaurant in my neighborhood with an israeli flag too 😔 wish i could try it cause it looks good but oh well

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[u/daudder]

I would go there and tell them that they are offensive and should stop displaying the flag, and that you and many others will not be their customers until they do.

[u/echtemendel]

I think that at the end of the day, you eating there or not is pretty much meaningless. Consumption or lack thereof by individuals will not change anything significant. It is up to your personal feeling (e.g. I would personally feel uncomfortable with the Zionist flag and would thus avoid it).

Seriously, don't torture yourself about such insignificant issues. Being active within big groups is the only thing that can really affect any political change.

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/echtemendel]

True that makes sense as well thanks for putting in context.

[u/DamageOn → u/LittleLionMan82]

I mean, there is something called solidarity as well, which isn't trivial or meaningless.

[u/echtemendel → u/DamageOn]

of course. And as I said, I would personally be avoiding such a place. But we* also tend to put far too much emphasis on purely symbolic and individualist actions, orsers of magnitude more than they deserve. Real change comes from group struggle (and dare I say, class-based).

*we as in people in yhe western world, especially the USA. We're used to think in individualist fashion, which is a result of the liberal ideology of Capitalism.

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[u/Welcomefriend2023]

There is one "kosher style" deli near me that I don't patronize bc of this same reason (zionism), but also bc its dirty and has a roach problem.

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[u/MissTootie]

As a Jewish anti-Zionist... it's fine to eat there imo. Isolation leads to more hatred.

Also I know I'm just one opinion, but you as a non-Jew saying it would "feel like it'd be the equivalent of eating at a place that displays a Nazi flag" sends shivers down my spine. While both nationalist movements/states are beacons of some of the worst that humanity has to offer, I think it's so fucking dangerous and insensitive to compare the Jewish state, no matter how terrible and genocidal to Nazi fucking Germany. My grandparents (z'l) were both survivors of the Shoah, and were about as anti-Zionist as you could be for a Holocaust survivor. And I KNOW that this comparison/equivalency would make them turn over in their graves.

While the intent of the Nazi and Zionist entities may be similar, they are different in so many ways, and that is not a comparison for someone like you (a non-Jew) to make so comfortably and casually.

Sorry but I've just been seeing this so much lately from goyim and its actually making me die inside a little every time.

[u/bruciano → u/MissTootie]

My grandparents and 1 of my uncle died in Auschwitz and I have no problem comparing zionists to nazis.

Actually, nazis didn't plan to deport French children until Laval ask them to do so, to avoid creating orphans that the French government would have to deal with. I don't think zionists show the same "consideration" for children.

https://www.international.ucla.edu/migration/article/230409

[u/bogby55 → u/bruciano]

You had me in the first half but no clue what point your trying to make with the French anecdote. It's great that the nazis had to be convinced, but guess what, they were massacring and deporting children throughout the rest of Europe lmao

Your comment is giving off the whole "zionists are worse than nazis" bs and if that's your intent I gotta say, lame af.

[u/daudder → u/bogby55]

Evil is not a one dimensional concept and is non-linear so neither are categorically “worse” than the other.

There are different aspects to evil. There are those in which the Nazis were clearly worse than the Zionists and those in which the Zionists trump them.

Claiming the universal moral high ground, sanctimony, self righteousness, hypocrisy and claiming they are the perpetual victims while perpetrating horrific crimes is by far the Zionist’s strong points.

Industrial murder, OTOH, is the Nazi’s forte.

Give credit where it’s due.

[u/bruciano → u/bogby55]

They are worse because they are doing the same shit while playing the victim.

Remember what Golda Meir said ?
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children."

[u/bogby55 → u/bruciano]

Ya your not gonna goad me into saying something insidious with your quote. It's a disgusting quote and definitely demonstrates what zionism really is.

And stop distracting from your really out of touch comment. Your the one that's diminishing nazi crimes. Figure your shit out cuz your giving really contradictory signals, either your against genocide or your for it 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[u/bruciano → u/bogby55]

Your the one that's diminishing nazi crimes.

Saying zionists are worse than nazis is not diminishing nazi crimes.
Your comments suggest that zionists aren't "that bad" and that's lame af (to paraphrase you).

[u/bogby55 → u/bruciano]

You are deliberality changing what I said. I focused on whatever the hell you were trying to say with your little French story.

Zionists are bad so quit whatever attempt your making to paint me in a particular way.

Zionists suck, nazis suck goodbye.

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[u/Chyron48 → u/MissTootie]

I don't think you get to decide what comparisons goyim make.

For one thing, Jews were not the only victims of the holocaust. And, the simple fact that both Zionists and Nazis are into genocide makes them instantly comparable, 'casually' or otherwise.

[u/LittleLionMan82 → u/Chyron48]

I can understand why people get offended and I'm not saying the states are the same. I'm making the comparison hypothetically to understand how I would feel in that situation. Would I walk into an establishment with a Nazi flag? Hell no...

Similarly Israel, while different, is certainly a racist apartheid state guilty of ethnic cleansing and probably genocide, so my revulsion at establishments proudly displaying that flag is similar.

[u/sandwishqueen → u/Chyron48]

I don't think you should be on. Jewish sub policing how Jews talk about something that whether you like it or not very much affected us. We realize that we were not the only victims of the Nazis, but we were disproportionally so...It's sorta fucked uo for you to come here to try to "educate" Jews about the Holocaust. This is a place for anti-genocide Jews to connect, not for "goyim" (using your word here...) to teach us how terrible zionism is. We are well aware or we wouldn't be in this sub...

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[u/Chyron48 → u/sandwishqueen]

I don't think you should be on. Jewish sub policing how Jews talk about something

I'm not. I'm saying that two groups who commit genocide invite comparison, and no particular ethnic or religious group gets to demand that they're the only ones allowed to do so. The only one trying to police how people talk was the OP, and saying they shouldn't do that is pretty basic paradox of tolerance stuff.

whether you like it or not very much affected us.

No one said otherwise. In fact, it was explicitly acknowledged.

It's sorta fucked uo for you to come here to try to "educate" Jews about the Holocaust

I'm not educating about the Holocaust. Just stating a relevant fact.

This is a place for anti-genocide Jews to connect, not for "goyim"

"Allies welcome".

(using your word here...)

Not 'my' word - it's the term OP used to deny who gets to make comparisons to Nazis.

We are well aware or we wouldn't be in this sub...

Being against genocide is really quite the low bar. It doesn't mean you're never wrong.

Why would only Jewish people be permitted to compare Nazis to other genociders? It doesn't make sense. Especially online, where anyone can claim to be Jewish.

[u/sudo-linton → u/MissTootie]

My grandfather was also a Holocaust survivor, and I look at the Israeli flag the same way as I do a swaztika. The Zionist, apartheid, genocidal regime that is Israel is has used and continues to use the same tactics that they used against our families in the camps and the ghettos. When my zayde (z"l) first arrived to Auschwitz, he saw babies being ripped from their mothers, being thrown and shot, then having their skulls crushed by Nazi boots. How is that any different than the horrific images we are seeing of Palestinian children in pieces, crushed by rubble, as the IOF posts videos of them dancing and celebrating a literal genocide?

I am really sick of this notion in our community that somehow the Holocaust is some sort of unique genocide, unlike any other genocide before it - and that is far from the truth. Hitler was inspired by the Armenian genocide, by chattel slavery in the US - there was even a genocide pertetuated by the Germans right before the Holocaust in Namibia (Herero and Namaqua Genocide). It is exactly this reason why our Jewish community struggles with empathy for marginalized peoples experiencing genocide, and how so many Zionist Jews are able to rationalize the genocide of Palestinians, from the Nakba to today.

Sorry for the rant, but as descendant of a Holocaust survivors, it is our obligation to call out injustices everywhere and anywhere, ESPECIALLY if it is enacted by Jews in the name of Judaism.

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