r/JewsOfConscience • u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist • 14d ago
Discussion - Flaired Users Only Were there antisemitic attacks in Amsterdam?
I've seen claims on social media that claim antisemitic attacks occurred in Amsterdam where innocent jewish people with no affiliation with the maccabi fans were assaulted, and I would like to know if there is any evidence that support it.
The claims are that there's a video of a man being beat up by a mob while screaming "Please! I'm not a jew, stop", that the Amsterdam police were notified that antisemitic attacks were about to happen before the arrival of the Maccabi fans and social media posts planning a "jew hunt" beforehand, "a witness described people waiting, armed with melee weapons, at strategic places" and that the attackers were asking for jewish passports.
I've been trying to search for that video, but so far no results have been found and I wonder if anyone here have seen them. In any case, were there any instances of innocent jewish people who were attacked?
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) 14d ago
Jewish passports? Did the witness claim that the attackers were asking for "Jewish passports" or are you confusing Jewish for Israeli?
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u/rybnickifull 14d ago
You'd have to ask yourself how the thousands of Jewish residents of the city live and why these prepared attackers were somehow only concerned with attacking Jews who support a far right football team.
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist 14d ago
Well I don't live in Amsterdam so I can't know what its like to be jewish and living there. Plus maybe there were some opportunists who took advantage of the situation to carry out attacks against jews.
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u/rybnickifull 14d ago
Again, if it was particularly hard being Jewish in Amsterdam you'd have heard about it outside of a visit from a bunch of far right football hools.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 14d ago
While I agree that this particular situation is complicated, there is a documented history of antisemitism in Amsterdam soccer culture specifically because of Ajax's appropriation of our culture.
Relevant articles, from 2023 (pre-Oct 7) and 2019 (though they admittedly conflate pro/antizionism with pro/antisemitism):
- https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/world/europe/netherlands-ajax-antisemitism.html
- https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/football/anti-semitism-ajax-netherlands-spt-intl/index.html
Just because you yourself are not aware of a particular issue in another country doesn't mean that issue doesn't exist.
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u/rybnickifull 13d ago edited 13d ago
I'm an Ajax and Cracovia fan who has lived in Holland, the UK and Poland so I'd say I'm quite aware of football clubs appropriating Jewish culture, no need for the snark. Yes, there's a history of antisemitism aimed at Ajax fans, What you've provided here is two articles describing far right hooligans using this borrowed identity to do that. I see crossed out stars of David every day that have nothing to do with actual antisemitism but a football rivalry. It's unpleasant but I know the context and don't let it get to me. Others might, it's a personal choice. Meanwhile, this has nothing really to do with that night in Amsterdam.
If you're interested in more than an article I really recommend Simon Kuper, in particular his book Ajax, The Dutch, The War. It goes into this appropriation and speculates on the reasons for it.
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist 14d ago
True. However as for the claims I mentioned, I've tried searching for sources but haven't come up with anything. They could be lies but generally even lies aren't created from thin air.
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u/rybnickifull 14d ago
That last point - have you been watching the past few years of Israeli propaganda? They can and frequently do make lies up out of thin air.
No, some football hooligans spent an afternoon causing disruption in a capital city centre, pissed everyone off and got attacked for it. Nothing more sinister.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 14d ago
It's impossible to know for certain because both sides have an invested interest in blocking that information; the Zionism side wants to call everything antisemitism to scare people and the anti-Zionists want to claim nothing is antisemitism because antisemitism makes the movement look bad.
Here's what we do know:
- Soccer hooligans tend to be far-right racists even compared to their surrounding culture.
- Maccabi fans were shouting things directly supporting the ongoing genocide and inflaming tensions.
- Some Maccabi hooligans even assaulted people and destroyed property, even before the event occurred.
- The team they played against, Ajax, does NOT have an antisemitism problem. In fact, it is the opposite -- they have appropriated the aesthetic of Zionist Judaism for themselves and their marketing.
- This appropriation of Jewish culture and imagery by Ajax has directly lead to more antisemitism by fans of rival clubs [1]. The talk about "jew hunting" (if it did happen), could have been an actual plan to attack Jews, or it could have been an existing slogan used by Ajax opponents [2].
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/world/europe/netherlands-ajax-antisemitism.html
[2] https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/football/anti-semitism-ajax-netherlands-spt-intl/index.html
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u/Silver-bullit 14d ago
No, it was this clip and earlier (disgusting) behavior that triggered a response:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/s/tjflfEjyWN
One of the 8 defendants was an actual Palestinian.
The others, though I would not condone that, had been inundated by clips of shot and squashed women and children. They felt these guys were really responsible, not the Jewish community as a whole.
On the other hand, the Germans were also collectively held responsible for the suffering they caused. They had a famous saying: wir haben er nicht gewusst, we didn’t know. That’s what a lot of Israelis are going to say as well I guess. Not a lot of them acknowledge the depth of IDF depravity. That’s called group bias, we all have this. Have look yourself:
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist 14d ago
I'm aware of the racist chants and that the maccabi fans hate-crimed a taxi driver, but I've been trying to find the sources for "the police were tipped of an antisemitic attack", the video of the crying man shouting "I'm not jewish" and "a witness described people waiting with weapons at strategic places". They could be lies, but generally lies aren't made up from thin air.
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u/Silver-bullit 14d ago
You mean at 2 o’clock at night? They must he around, I remember the Maccabi guy that was thrown in the water and the Polish? guy that was asked for his pasport. That’s of course out if bound, but atleast it would have meant a Dutch jew would have been fine.
By the way, a friend of mine was in the stadium, sitting next to a Jewish guy, the always sit together as they have reserved seats. This men was very disturbed and translated the texts the supporters were chanting.
He was also annoyed by the desecration of the 2 minute silence for Valencia flood victims. He didn’t feel threatened at all, but was just sad about their behavior. On the other hand, he was worried it might rub of on him as well, even though he had nothing to do with them…
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