r/JewsOfConscience • u/rafternoon • 21d ago
AMA AMA: Rafael Shimunov, Jewish left activist, radio host
Hey Reddit and r/JewsOfConscience, I'm Rafael Shimunov.
I'm a Jewish left activist who is active with JVP, IfNotNow and JFREJ. I'm the co-host of Beyond The Pale: Radio’s Home for the Jewish Left on NY’s WBAI 99.5FM. I'm a creative activist and founder of ArtvWar, a mostly anonymous group who uses art to create cultural interventions. I also cofounded The Jewish Vote, an electoral project of JFREJ in NYC who helped elected leaders like Jamaal Bowman and many other progressives.
I arrived to the US with my parents as a HIAS child refugee from Soviet-dominated Uzbekistan. I'm a Bukharian Jew, one of Central Asia’s many minority ethnic groups who have largely settled in Queens NYC. You may have first found me when I went viral after Ellen DeGeneres’ lawyers tried to censor my criticism of her support of disgraced former President George Bush on Twitter. Or my installing an illegal exhibit in the Whitney Museum to protest its leader’s manufacturing of chemical explosives sold to Trump’s border patrol. If you were around during Trump's Muslim ban, you may have been one of the 12 million on my livestream during the JFK Airport protests against it, which I filmed from the airport me and my family arrived in as refugees.
I've also worked to successfully help organize with Queens residents against building an Amazon headquarters for their ties to ICE, militarization of police, racism, labor and small business abuse. I've worked professionally and personally supporting movements and orgs winning $15 minimum wage, going after the crime of Guantanamo Bay, Stop and Frisk, and more.
I grew up in the projects aka public housing. My parents did all the stereotypical immigrant jobs you can imagine until my father became an architect and my mother a nurse and I began to go from poverty to the middle class. My parents learned English watching Star Trek with me. That influenced me a lot. And my secret past is working in advertising. For the bad guys. Man that was bad. My not so secret and proud past was being a warehouse worker and bicycle mechanic for Toys R Us, where I learned more about life than almost anywhere.
Find me on X, BlueSky, Instagram.
And the radio show on WBAI 99.5FM NY, X and Instagram. You can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and a bunch of other apps.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Hiya Rafael,
What has been the biggest changes you've witnessed in groups like If Not Now over the past several years?
I know that seems kind of vague, but I read an interesting article by Jewish Currents about If Not Now trying to redefine itself post-Trump and in the face of Israel's escalating brutality. The landmark reports on apartheid came out in 2021 and now, we're witnessing a genocide on live-stream.
If Not Now has done a lot of excellent work and I'm curious if the organization changed in any substantial way in terms of tactics, ideology, etc. as these years have gone by?
Thank you!
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
I joined IfNotNow pretty early during part of my radicalization after Israel's 2014 attacks on Palestinians in Gaza. Because I was raised to be an unquestioning Zionist, one who believed there was always an explanation for its daily human rights abuses and history, it felt much easier to me to join a group like IfNotNow, as opposed to JVP, SJPs, and other groups back then. Mostly because they offered an entry level way to get involved, using a wide and welcoming strategy for people who were not yet critical of Zionism itself. But deeply concerned with what we may not have seen to be the violent and rotten fruits of Zionism.
So today, as these groups so beautifully put aside their different strategies, dramas, and the (sometimes) different communities (and front doors) they hold, in order to be in total solidarity together for Gaza, and beginning to sound more and more alike I'm starting to wonder if someone like me back then would still have a way to enter and learn and evolve. But I am also aware that may be shortsighted, because of how radicalizing what is happening in Gaza is, perhaps it's more important to make those higher asks of people now rather than offer a pathway to them.
One thing I do appreciate that seems to have stayed the same, are how JVP is primarily about how to show up in solidarity with Palestinians in a very outward way. Beautiful. And how INN is primarily helping Jews who are looking inward and examining how and why we got here, and how to free ourselves from harming ourselves. Beautiful too.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
So today, as these groups so beautifully put aside their different strategies, dramas, and the (sometimes) different communities (and front doors) they hold, in order to be in total solidarity together for Gaza, and beginning to sound more and more alike I'm starting to wonder if someone like me back then would still have a way to enter and learn and evolve. But I am also aware that may be shortsighted, because of how radicalizing what is happening in Gaza is, perhaps it's more important to make those higher asks of people now rather than offer a pathway to them.
You bring up an excellent point about entry-way into changing one's perspective.
And I also agree that the reality of 2014, as bad as Protective Edge was - is really different compared to the genocide of 2023-2024+.
Thanks for this answer. It makes me wonder what ways we can be persuasive (in the entry-level way) but also understanding that the moment we live in now is radical too.
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Yes. We have to design a home with many front doors. Stairs. Slides. Ramps. Open windows. Harder than it sounds. Because we're social animals and what occurs in homes, even with entries, are subcultures. Niche and coded language. Vague, ever changing rules. Cult of personalities. Mob behaviors. Our spaces are so beautiful, to me. Even with their flaws. But to someone new, can be overwhelming and even kind of dangerous. I find it such a hard balance to keep our spaces open for everybody, while keeping everybody safer Safer from racism, homophobia, sexism, etc etc. I say safer instead of safe on purpose. Nothing can be fully safe. Some now say our places should be safer and bold. And boldness, and the ability to appeal to every day people is going to require risk. And we're all going to have to become really skilled at radical solidarity (sticking together to maintain our majority) because if the right doesn't rip us apart, we will.
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u/douglasstoll Reconstructionist 21d ago
Thanks for doing this. What types of direct action do you think would be most effective?
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
So I've been documenting a lot of the major actions for over 10 years. Photos, videos, livestreams. I've helped organize some. I think they're all important because each one offers people just coming into activism a first stop. Something they're nervous to do but think they can do. So we have to always keep in mind that these actions aren't just for a direct pay off, but to begin to bring people in on a path. To become more skilled in non violent resistance, and braver. To build networks for resilience and to even prepare their loves and families and even jobs and bosses (if applicable) for how to support them or manage.
I also think we don't do enough actions that impact people's money. While all these tactics grow our movements, and build skill, community and resilience... few of them scare power because few of them threaten their money. We must begin to make it economically costly to genocide, to pollute our water, food and air, cage and execute people, and abuse our labor.
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u/douglasstoll Reconstructionist 21d ago
thank you very much. I feel like the only move left is a general strike or prepare for the slide to barbarism.
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
General strike is my love language. And a lot has to be prepared for that as we know.
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u/gatoescado Arab Jew, Masorati, anti-Zionist, Marxist 21d ago
Hey Raf!
What is your take on promoting the anti-Zionist cause within the American Jewish establishment and its institutions? I’m referring to everything from summer camps to local synagogues to large orgs like JStreet, and everything else in between. In your opinion, is it worth any of our effort to be ‘converting’ liberal Zionists, or is this a futile cause?
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
I ask myself the same question all the time! While I don't think it's ever futile to invest time in changing hearts and minds, I do sometimes wonder if it's the best use of time. Zionists, including me when I was young, are time suckers. Some on purpose, sure. Some just by the nature of psychology at play. You can throw logic at someone all you want but if their inner voice knows that if you are right, their parents, congregation, Rabbi, teacher, sister, partner have all been wrong -- it creates a resistance that is sometimes reenforced by argument, rather than defeated.
It takes a LOT of time to move people, especially those who are not used to being uncomfortable like middle or upper class white people (and many others across identity) And patience. But one thing I learned is your job isn't to change their minds A to Z. It's to plant seeds that they'll have to examine on their own later. It's a community effort. You want them to feel "I don't agree with that person but they're nice and they're right about so much else, I wonder..." vs "Wow that person and other people won't ike me if I continue to think this way". They'll just find people who will. As the Jewish tradition says, “You are not required to finish your work, yet neither are you permitted to desist from it.”
However, back to my own sometimes dilemma. In this moment, for every one Zionist who wants to talk endlessly with me I could likely organize 20 people ready and willing to hit the streets, make calls, knock doors and show up tomorrow. So I tend to focus on that. However, if someone is truly curious, I will try. But only to plant seeds. Not grow a tree.
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u/vastros 21d ago
What insights can you offer into the Ellen situation that won't appear when casually researching the topic?
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Ellen and her lawyers abused internet law (primarily the Digital Millennium Copyright Act / DMCA) to censor my video. I've learned to legally and ethically use that same law to protect vulnerable people from things like doxxing, revenge porn, and defamation. Thanks Ellen.
I've also learned that when you try and do the right thing, it doesn't have to be viral. It just has to be attacked. And in order for something to be attacked it has to be true and powerful. My original video felt like a failure, no one saw it. It wasn't under her practice in the Streisand Effect that people got mad that she got away with censoring Twitter, and began to risk their accounts to repost a copy. So while my video got hundreds of views, the collective responded and their videos got hundreds of views. There were so many of them, collectively the video got millions of views, and there was no way to censor it because of the sheer frequency and user base. We have so much power as individuals even with accounts which have only dozens of followers.
Oh, one thing you won't find is how it helped move social narrative around her, where people began to really come out with their own experiences about her. Eventually, ending her show.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Oh, one thing you won't find is how it helped move social narrative around her, where people began to really come out with their own experiences about her. Eventually, ending her show.
Very true. I remember reading the first stories about how poorly she treated her staff.
I was surprised but also not, because something just felt off about her persona.
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Had we lived in a society where labor rights were on the forefront, we would have heard workers long ago warn us about her. But they are always warning us about people. And this nation is getting better on labor rights, well at least in more people expecting them and celebrating their victories. Black and brown folks, immigrants, workers, queer folks, disabled folks... always always warn us about these people from before they become wealthy and powerful. We just have to listen.
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u/richards1052 Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Thank you so much Rafael for joining us. We so value your work covering so many important issues in our community.
Even the nasty comments, which we removed, were instructive to me as someone who has faced them as well over several decades.
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Richard, I am a huge fan of yours. And it's an honor to be part of this just as it has been to join you in the work you've been doing, and the ground you've been building for all of us before I was active. And still today. Thank you
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Thanks again for doing this Raf! We appreciate it very much and you're welcome back anytime!
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u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Hey Raf,
I think this year has shown a wide range of activist groups opposing the genocide - which is great and something we all would hope to happen under such circumstances.
That being said, there are politicians who are traditionally seen as progressive or representative of the progressive base of the Democratic party - but who are distrusted by some anti-Zionist activist groups and figures.
I myself have at times become really disillusioned with some politicians for being outspoken about Palestinian human rights but then supporting Biden.
And at the same time, I remember posting an article about Cori Bush vs. AIPAC on Reddit and receiving criticism because it came across (to the critics) as me supporting all of her politics which were deemed not leftist enough and yada yada. I don't personally know everything about her, but she was being challenged by AIPAC and I thought that was important enough to have a discussion about or raise awareness about.
AIPAC has been using GOP dark money to push out progressive critics of Israel from the Democratic party.
Can you explain your position on this topic - ie, what kind of infighting have you seen or experienced even when it's about pushing back against AIPAC going after progressives? Thank you.
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Hi!
What you're raising is such a critical friction in this work especially in this time. There are a lot of takes on this I can share, but I believe enough in mine that I'm going to focus there. And that is Palestinians and everyone under every boot, gun or prison roof here and around the world deserves our movements to practice a diversity of tactics.
They can be electoral. Street movements. Boycotts. Work stoppages or slowdown. Impact litigation, and so on. But I want to see a culture emerge where we choose which fight we want to experiment with, and put our energy to that instead of trying to discredit another tactic.
And I find it reassuring to know that when I was also criticized for favoring electoral tactics of people like Cori Bush or Rashida Tlaib on Gaza, I was told I was abandoning Palestinians. Yet, I was following Palestinian leadership in doing so. As do many people in street movements and other groups. So yeah, if it's about Palestinians, I want to be led by Palestinians. However, their leaders are embodying a diversity of tactics and we can choose which one we want to join.
Some of them will fail, which is good information. And even good process. When something fails it saves us all time later. And it fills the ranks elsewhere where things are working. With experienced people. It also moves people along. But imagine investing everything in one tactic and watching it fail? Where do people go? This is all incubation. And when you incubate, you protect. And you measure.
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u/Bumblebee2064 Jewish 21d ago
Hi Rafeal,
I am wondering if there is any Antizionist Jewish organizing happening in the Queens Bukharian community now? From an outsiders perspective it has always seemed pretty politically conservative and at least on the institutional level still very zionist. I wonder if you have seen any younger Jews in the community rejecting zionism and if so are there any organizations in place for them to turn to? Thank you so much and congrats on everything you've accomplished so far!
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Sadly, very little. Historically I began a group on Facebook called Progressive Bukharians. And I've met a lot of people there I truly respect and am proud to know. However, even though many of them are unicorns in our community, a lot of them arrived because of their opposition to the Bukharian community's support of Trump. And when people arrived to something only in opposition to something, they don't arrive with a foundation to build upon. Even before Oct 7th, it was very hard to talk to Bukharians about Zionism. Now, even among those who are otherwise progressive, it feels more impossible. What I have noticed among them is those who did come with a foundation, like socialism, remained consistent. I also learned that I was unprepared in capacity to offer any political education process. A pathway for people to come to their own conclusions about it, based on a curriculum that felt respectful and applicable to their lives. Groups like IfNotNow, SURJ and Asians4Palestine have done this well. But I was on my own, and perhaps it's something others want to join me in creating?
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u/IceColdSteak 21d ago
Hi dude what should be done if I have no money? I want to help but I’m just stuck as a student I barely can send 20 a week. I appreciate you sorry for the pain. Free Palestine
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u/rafternoon 21d ago
Here's a trade secret. Outside of small grassroots donation asks, asking for small amounts isn't about the money at all. The non profits just know that psychologically you will feel more invested in their work if you feel you've contributed to them. In fact, it often costs them more to market and process your donation than your donation. Because the value is in moving you to build a relationship. But you're already down and motivated, so skip the money unless you have reasonably disposable income, because you're already a person who gives a fuck.
There are many more valuable ways a person who gives a fuck can participate without money. Ask yourself what are the things you're good at (or things you want to be good at, even if it's not tied directly to activism), and some of them may have direct application.
I have friends who don't like to leave the house, they like to research. Some are spreadsheet or data nerds. Some want to learn how to train to be medics or security for protests. Some want to learn how to train to speak to strangers. Walk more. All these things have applications across the movement, and some of them are in high demand. Especially when it's something that you enjoy and doesn't seem like work. Especially if it's something many people don't enjoy and it would seem like work. It can be as simple as "I like to people watch", lol, and I'll say, "have you tried court watching?". Court watching used to be done by the press. It kept judges and lawyers in line and accountable, protecting people in the most vulnerable times of their lives. Any person can take the place of that journalist who is long gone and make those people accountable again. Are you patient and have hours to kill sometimes? You can pay bails. You don't even have to use your money in many locales. You just have to wait around ugly broken lights and yellow walls for hours while reading a book. All this work builds our communities and networks. And that's what we need to build to survive and win against what's coming.
Let me know more here or in private about the things you're interested in personally, and I bet we can think of a few ideas.
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago
Hi Rafael,
There's all sorts of crazy news about Trump's mass deportation schemes and whatnot.
I've read articles where police chiefs have said they would help immigrants and disobey Trump's orders.
Any insight into what activists are preparing to do about this? I ask with the wording 'preparing to do' because I know there are NGOs already working to oppose Trump policies. But I'm curious what, I suppose, the 'street-level' (not in any negative sense but the folks who are on the ground, putting their bodies out there) organization might look like?
Thanks!
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u/rafternoon 21d ago edited 21d ago
Was literally talking about this at work for months now. And so are others across many orgs.
I like to remind folks that when Obama won by one of the largest margins in history (Trumps is among the narrowest, even as he claims a mandate) the Republicans were able to thwart many of even his centrist actions across his entire tenure. And it was during that Democrat control groups like the Tea Party came along and pushed the GOP radically right. It's not exactly apples to apples but we have the potential to do the same within the system. However, I think we must build our movements and their resilience to not only push that, but to be there if that fails.
We build these movements by joining mutual aid to distribute coats and food, not tomorrow, now. By knowing all our neighbors so that the first time you knock on their door isn't when you need critical help, but when you need sugar. Joining or creating unions. Coops. By researching preparedness, and not the type that reenforces insularity and hoarding, but community and dividing up roles so you rely on each other.
We cannot predict the shape and form our power will need to take. But we can build our power. We can prepare people to be healthy, supported, resilient, informed, and specialized in things just by being there for each other now. It sounds cheesy as hell but making it your mission to know the neighbors you never speak to and build depth with, will save us.
Allowing dominant culture to continue to insulate us into our phones and filtered bubbles will make us weaker and weaker.
Am grateful for places like this that encourage to utilize both the power of online community and finding people like us, and also taking what we learn from each other to people outside the bubbles.
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist 21d ago edited 21d ago
Hi Rafael!
Thank you for being here tonight with us!
I will help promote this post and questions will start trickling in soon. I have some of my own as well!
EDIT:
That concludes today's AMA. Thanks again to our very own /u/richards1052 for arranging the AMA and thanks to Rafael for taking the time to be with us today and engaging with the community.
You can follow Raf on his radio show & socials which are linked above!
Thanks to everyone who participated. Have a great weekend!