r/JewsOfConscience • u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist • Nov 08 '24
News More misinformation re: Amsterdam spread by pro-Israel social media. A Dutch photographer recorded Maccabi football fans beating up a Dutch man, but the video has since been framed falsely & in anti-immigrant invective.
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u/earlysunsetsagain Ashkenazi Nov 08 '24
They're calling it a pogrom and comparing it to Kristallnacht. This is so disrespectful to us and our ancestors who lost their lives.
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
One Canadian (anti-zionist?) journalist is reporting that a local anti-Zionist Jewish group had to cancel Kristallnacht celebrations because of fear of Zionist hooligans. Although I think he's using Google Translate from a dutch source, so not sure how accurate his understanding is of the situation.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
Source:
https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854704169560531426
Here is her original footage, which includes the clip that has been widely-disseminated in a false context:
https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610
Disclaimer: this is not to imply there aren't videos online of Maccabi fans being assaulted by locals. Rather, this video shows that Maccabi fans were engaged in more assaults than previously thought and some are being falsely attributed to locals.
EDIT:
MSNBC is even using this video and framing it as locals attacking Maccabi, when it's the inverse.
https://i.imgur.com/WgvmlBS.png
https://x.com/MSNBC/status/1854928898087125087
The Dutch photographer comments about it here:
https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854957508193906719
I'm getting more and more links to news platforms from people who posted my video for Central Station out of context.
Even EenVandaag, which I hold in high regard. @EenVandaag
Fortunately, there are RTL, Parool, LBC, New York Times, Channel 5 who approached me to shed light on my side of the case. Skynews soon. And perhaps the BBC. It's a lot, but that's a good thing.
It's about my footage and my footage only. People who come up with all kinds of conspiracies, who send threats: I'm just a photographer who turned on the camera and reported. Which I've been doing for almost 10 years.
I also contacted the Amsterdam police and registered as an eyewitness.
Have a nice evening folks!
My previous commentary on this subject:
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u/pkr8ch Nov 09 '24
I saw their bullshit NBC Nightly news last night. They’re so biased they interviewed 3 Israelis who were playing the victim. They didn’t interview anyone from the other side. I really hate that this little shit country has us by the balls, it’s bought all out our politicians so they have a steady stream of cash and bombs for their genocide. It’s disgusting.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Nov 09 '24
One of the NY State Jewish Federations had an "emergency meeting" today about it. I did not attend.
Ever been to an Israeli football/soccer game? "מוות לערבים" is literally their favorite chant. The whole crowd goes bananas shouting it over and over.
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u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Nov 09 '24
I have a Hopoel Tel Aviv jersey and scarf that my sister got me when she lived there. The scarf ironically enough is pinned up next to an Ajax scarf
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Nov 09 '24
Garak did nothing wrong.
Who's worse, Cardassians or Zionists?
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u/oncothrow Nov 09 '24
Garak did nothing wrong.
Even Garak recognised he did plenty wrong and freely acknowledged he was not a good man.
He had the air of a polite man but he wasn't a good man.
I've been watching a lot of DS9 recently. The comparisons between the Bajorans and the Palestinians seem to have gotten only more apt with time. Major Kira is basically a space Palestinian.
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
May we find more Aamin Marritzas.
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u/oncothrow Nov 09 '24
The thing is there are a LOT of people who very directly say that what's happening is wrong. Heck, that's even the central premise of this subreddit.
The problem is that nobody is listening to them and they're actively censured. In the show, the only time anyone (figuratively) could pay attention to them was after the Bajorans had won and so the alternative viewpoint couldn't be ignored anymore.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Nov 09 '24
Didn't Garak betray Cardassia on Bajor?
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u/oncothrow Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
Depends on what specifically you're talking about.
It's never fully explained what caused him to have to flee and become an exile (and he lies about it constantly). There was an incident or two where he let some Cardassian dissidents escape but that was well after he had already left Cardassian intelligence.
For the most part when he was in Cardassian intelligence he was one of their best operatives. Amongst other things he tortured and assassinated people.
For the most part of the series he made it clear he was never fully happy with the nature of the government and where it was going, but he was never fully happy about seeing Cardassians die either when the war started in earnest.
He was a very complicated character and it's hard to summarise all the stuff that happened with him over the course of the series. But he'd be the first to say he wasn't a good man.
His final scene with Bashir was very sad and melancholy in summing up how he felt about everything that had happened.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Nov 09 '24
Thanks for all the details. He's one of the best characters I've seen on TV.
What would you do if you met a former mossad interrogator who had a change of heart and left? I would ask him to help decolonization.
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u/oncothrow Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
Thanks for all the details. He's one of the best characters I've seen on TV.
I don't think I've seen another character quite like him before or since. It's easy to make a "former spy" character infinitely jaded, but he was also surprisingly grounded (in part because of his relationship with Dr. Bashir) and wanted to do the right thing. He had a love for his homeland but wasn't blind to what was done to keep it as such.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jW5weeu3kQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWclGECBfA
And he still managed to get on under your skin with just the right choice of words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FggqbNUZD8U
What would you do if you met a former mossad interrogator who had a change of heart and left? I would ask him to help decolonization.
That is in a sense what he ends up doing at the end of the series. But then that's also part of his tragedy, because of what that ultimately entails and how it affects him.
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
I used a Star Trek reference too and it was quickly recognized. I love this sub.
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
Can you read and understand Hebrew? I had a question about their song on the fan's web page.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Nov 09 '24
Yes. I'd be happy to
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
In the post, the claim is that they are signing "F**** the Arabs" https://x.com/Muslim/status/1854901227290570856
The translation for the page of the song is just "f*** you, we'll intervene" https://www-maccabipedia-co-il.translate.goog/%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%A8:%D7%AA%D7%A0%D7%95_%D7%9C%D7%A6%D7%94%22%D7%9C_%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%A6%D7%97?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=fr&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Original page: https://maccabipedia.co.il/%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%A8:%D7%AA%D7%A0%D7%95_%D7%9C%D7%A6%D7%94%22%D7%9C_%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%A6%D7%97
I'm trying to understand 1. If the Google translation is incorrect and it does indeed say "F**** the arabs" ? 2. Do they really say "F*** the arabs" in the video?
I believe they say this, but I don't want to be caught spreading misinformation either if I'm going to use these two links as evidence of zionist hatred.
I wouldn't mind the Hebew lesson as to why Google translate may have gotten it wrong.
The mods over at Isreal_Palestine claimed they weren't saying "Death to Arabs" (which I suppose is techically true if it's the f word)
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u/jeff_dosso Non-Jewish Ally Nov 10 '24
Worth mentioning I have 1 Hebrew speaking source saying it is, on the page, F*** the Arabs.
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u/rapchee Nov 09 '24
am i understandig this corretly, jewish football fans are assaulting a dutch guy, and zionists use the video as "middle eastern migrants" are attacking jews? like literally the opposite?
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
Yes, that is how the pro-Israel user framed things.
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u/Turnip-for-the-books Nov 09 '24
I live in Amsterdam and saw the Maccabi fans take over of Dam square. I didnt see any if the violence layer but can confirm the fans were horrible, aggressive and clearly out for trouble.
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u/Pink-drip Nov 09 '24
The funny thing is, you can see the badges on their vests/jackets of their club. Also the yellow accents of the club colors.. incredible that reporters who repost this ignore all of that.
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u/apndrew Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
Absolutely false. A random person on Twitter posted one video (of which there are dozens of Arabs attacking Jews) to then claim with absolutely no evidence or support that she was able to somehow positively identify the people in the video as Israelis supposedly attacking a dutch guy. And then you all eat it up without any critical thought to gaslight the people actually providing evidence of heinous attacks on random Jews.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
Nope.
You are completely, 1000% wrong.
They were Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. Confirmed by another person who was present that night as well and has footage too.
Stop spreading misinformation with uninformed takes.
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u/lotus604 Nov 09 '24
Another proof that Israelis spin doctors are doing a great job playing with Europeans guilt regarding the Shoah. Nowadays if you dare express a single comment about Israel you are accused of antisemitism.
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u/Intelligent_Wave_428 Nov 09 '24
The way mainstream media spins any story with Israel being the victim is disgusting. Zero research to the truth. Just blind obedience.
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u/Fit_Butterfly_2896 Nov 09 '24
Here is the same situation on another video, from about 2min on...clearly Maccabi hooligans...https://youtu.be/ySHIOYyJ95A?si=LsIil5m6TdWHGIlX
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
Thank you for posting this.
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u/Fit_Butterfly_2896 Nov 09 '24
Meanwhile the Dutch photographer posted Bender's (they got a solid following on ig, x, etc) video on X as well, it has English subs now, and there are many incidents in there...min 2-3:30, 4on, 5on, 6:40... https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1855158106281677212
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u/Fit_Butterfly_2896 Nov 09 '24
Here the maccabi ultras posted the videos on their own ig! I mean, i don't know who runs that account, but looking through it does look genuine! https://www.instagram.com/p/DCJ_rGOgDtg/?igsh=bmxxbTBicWttdjRm
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u/musingmarkhor Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
Western media is going around portraying what happened as unprovoked anti-Semitic attacks. How further low can they go?
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u/Entire-Half-2464 Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
So many of the Dutch locals on social media were pointing out the bs in how this was being called antisemitic, yet major news outlets, including Dutch ones were pushing a completely false revision of the events.
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u/owmyball5 Nov 09 '24
Fans: Sing offensive songs
Locals: beat the shit out of the fans
Fans: surprise pikachu face
Classic israel-core moment, reminds me of nazis crying of being the victim. How long are we supposed to play nice and defend their genocide just because a they were victims to one half a century ago.
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u/Additional_Can8636 Nov 09 '24
The ones in the video are maccabi fans that attacked a taxidriver for no reason. There is a dashcamvideo of this. And that was the reason that the taxidriver made a socialmedia group to gather and retaliate
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u/Evridamntime Nov 09 '24
The news clearly showed a Palestine flag being torn down, yet this is being spun as an antisemitic incident??
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u/22octav Non-Jewish Ally Nov 10 '24
this journalist summarized the scandal (main stream media promoting fake news, even refusing to apologize after knowing it) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTFovHpft5M
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u/Spethoscope Nov 24 '24
I came back looking for this video, because the way I remember it going down was Maccabi's started it. I'm pretty sure this was the video.
Now it's all been Flipped around.
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u/MeanMikeMaignan Nov 08 '24
I was halfway through resharing this but can anyone provide evidence this is true?
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u/RedMiah Nov 08 '24
I don’t have the link handy but BBC posted an article saying basically the same thing - that Israeli fans went around destroying property and assaulting people.
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u/Naumzu Nov 09 '24
Can you find the article of this for me
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u/RedMiah Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
Not the article I originally saw (still looking for that one) but this one has the chief of police admitting that fans of Maccabi started it (and then tried to make it seem like they were victims, lots of double speak around this event).
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cwyge1587e5t?post=asset%3A7e39bf70-e4c8-4b98-9c55-76eb775dbf2f
Edit: that actually is the article. The part I saw is just further down, apologies. Maccabi fans looking for a fight or some such name
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u/grasslandx Nov 09 '24
Could you explain how you are interpreting this as the Maccabi fans starting it?
Some (not all) Maccabi fans attacked a taxi and lit a Palestine flag on fire on Wednesday, and then the next day after the match Maccabi fans were indiscriminately attacked.
This attack seems pretty unjust despite being provoked by some Maccabi fans the previous night. They indiscriminately attacked anyone who seemed Jewish.
Here's another BBC article mentioning what two British men witnessed
British men Aaron and Jacob, who are Jewish, told the BBC they went to the match, but left early.
Afterwards, they said they saw men yelling antisemitic threats and stamping on an Israeli man. They intervened, helped the man to his feet, and went to leave.
Shortly after, a group asked the men if they were Jewish, and Aaron said that they were British.
“But they said ‘you helped the Jew’, and he punched me in my face and broke my glasses," Aaron said.
“I was bleeding and have a black eye. I’m okay but a bit shaken."
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
You answered your own question.
Maccabi fans started all of this drama by engaging in hooliganism.
Locals responded with hooliganism.
If the story shared to the BBC is sincere, then of course that's wrong.
But that doesn't change the fact that Maccabi fans initiated all of this by roaming the streets looking for fights, attacked people, mocked & promoted the genocide in Gaza, and vandalized personal property.
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u/grasslandx Nov 09 '24
Of course, but the response was disproportionate and unjustifiable. 5 people were hospitalized and 20-30 others were "lightly injured". That's a big difference from 1 taxi driver and a flag.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
Well, it wasn't just one taxi driver and a flag.
Witnesses describe Maccabi fans menacing people throughout the evenings (presumably on November 6th and 7th).
On the 7th, there is footage of them attacking another person and an unseen group or person later on in the same video.
They were armed and roaming the streets, occasionally clashing with police.
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u/grasslandx Nov 09 '24
There's 3 BBC articles about what happened in Amsterdam with the Israeli soccer fans, but here's the most recent one: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2y33ee1klo
This is really all it says about the actions of the Israeli fans:
Police chief Peter Holla confirmed there had been incidents "on both sides". Israeli supporters had removed a Palestinian flag from a wall and set it alight and attacked a taxi, although there had been no further trouble until the following night, he said.
Here's a short part about the violence towards the Israelis
Halsema spoke of fans being "attacked, abused and pelted with fireworks" as they walked from the Johan Cruyff Arena to the centre of Amsterdam.
Police initially said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, although the mayor later spoke of young men on scooters. She was careful not to give details about the ethnic backgrounds of those involved in the attack, emphasising that it was part of the police investigation.
Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some unverified videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans.
Two British visitors said they came under attack as they tried to help an Israeli beaten up by people on mopeds. Jacob, 33, told the BBC he saw "10 people stamping and kicking" the man, and that they had seen "lots of little gangs chasing people".
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
Yes, there are plenty of mainstream news articles talking about the Israelis who were attacked.
There is no reciprocity for the locals who were attacked and the media has helped spread misinformation about such attacks, falsely attributing some of them to locals when it was actually Maccabi fans.
There have also been no public condemnations by major political figures of the racist and genocidal rhetoric by Maccabi fans.
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u/Fit_Butterfly_2896 Nov 08 '24
I watched it many times, and it indeed looks like they are Maccabi, there are several of them in yellow, or in black with yellow stripes, those are Maccabi colors. I'am curious if any media can confirm - which day it happened, who was there etc...
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u/Four5good Nov 12 '24
The person who took the video already said it's of Macabe hooligans attacking a dutch man.
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u/Fit_Butterfly_2896 Nov 13 '24
Yes, Bender did a great video, now Left Laser, too, Maccabis even have it on their profile, and some mainstream media catching up: https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-amsterdam-video-doesnt-show-attack-on-israelis/a-70763374
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u/spilat12 Nov 08 '24
Does anyone have clear evidence that it's true? I can only basically see "it's my video" claim in the tweets.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
She's an actual person, if that helps. A professional photographer.
https://www.instagram.com/iannetnl/
Beyond that, I don't know - but I don't see why they would lie.
EDIT:
Here is her original footage, which includes the clip that has been widely-disseminated in a false context.
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Nov 08 '24
[deleted]
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u/Coastalfoxes Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
This was also confirmed by the journalist Jake Hanrahan though unfortunately it’s a paywalled podcast. He’s done a bunch of stories on soccer hooliganism and he knows these people. He was disgusted at the way this is being reframed by the media and politicians
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u/zb0t1 Non-Jewish Ally Nov 09 '24
I used to live in the Netherlands, some friends who were in the area saw it, more people than you can count knew the Zionists were gonna twist this video and do their usual brainwashing.
Zionists live in their own twisted delusions and lies, the sooner the rest of the world catches up and sees how Zionists try super hard to manifest and summon their deep sick wishes and rotten dreams, the better for humanity.
Unfortunately the fact that this intersects with other systems of oppression and dear capitalism, the disappointment never stops growing especially with the latest 8 years seeing humans doubling down on the insanity.
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u/spilat12 Nov 08 '24
Thanks for the help, I just couldn't find the original and didn't think she might be famous or have high credibility!
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u/Own_Artichoke6337 Nov 09 '24
but still... how does she know who those people are? and who the person is getting beat up? It's bit vague. I don't wanna discredit anyone, but still this is not waterproof evidence.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 09 '24
She witnessed it in real-time and saw the clothing they were wearing.
You can find reasons to discredit her. Go for it.
What isn't in dispute is that the original video was hers and someone clipped it and disseminated it online - then corporate media used it without correct attribution or any at all, and framed it as the locals committing violence rather than the Maccabi fans.
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u/Own_Artichoke6337 Nov 09 '24
I'm not trying to find reasons to discredit her. I just want to know for sure, thats not bad. That's healthy.
I see the clothing they were wearing, it does look like maccabi fans. So thanks for clearing that up.
I just don't agree with beating people up because they chanted things. Even a ukrainian guy was forced to show he passport to proof he wasn't from israel. That's terrible. Both behaviours were terrible, maybe the news should show that.
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u/Pink-drip Nov 09 '24
Check the badges and colour accents of the hooligans. Clearly yellow and you also see their club badge on their chest.
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