"Ask A Jew" Wednesday

[u/AutoModerator]

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

[u/ContentChecker → u/[deleted]]

^{Subreddit Rules | Site Rules}

Hi there!

Your comment has been removed because you are not flaired. Please choose an appropriate userflair to participate.

Thank you!

---

This action was performed by a bot. Mention a moderator or send a modmail if you have any ideas, questions, or concerns about this action.

[u/ContentChecker → u/[deleted]]

^{Subreddit Rules | Site Rules}

Hi there!

Your comment has been removed because you are not flaired. Please choose an appropriate userflair to participate.

Thank you!

---

This action was performed by a bot. Mention a moderator or send a modmail if you have any ideas, questions, or concerns about this action.

[u/ContentChecker → u/[deleted]]

^{Subreddit Rules | Site Rules}

Hi there!

Your comment has been removed because you are not flaired. Please choose an appropriate userflair to participate.

Thank you!

---

This action was performed by a bot. Mention a moderator or send a modmail if you have any ideas, questions, or concerns about this action.

[u/ContentChecker → u/[deleted]]

^{Subreddit Rules | Site Rules}

Hi there!

Your comment has been removed because you are not flaired. Please choose an appropriate userflair to participate.

Thank you!

---

This action was performed by a bot. Mention a moderator or send a modmail if you have any ideas, questions, or concerns about this action.

[u/Klutzy-Pool-1802]

1- I was raised fairly religious, but integrated into US society. My family didn’t teach me anything secret as Jews.

Once my grandma acted weird about a mixed-race couple. Like, “He’s dating a black woman” as though it was a big deal. I was probably 7 years old. And I always remember that moment because her behavior was so unusual, it showed me this was something important and sensitive. Nobody ever acted that way about Jews versus non-Jews.

I never felt any pressure to marry a Jew, either. I wasn’t taught that we’re much different from anyone else.

3- This is a complicated question. I do think it could feed antisemitism anytime Jews exert economic/political power or show loyalty to Israel, in part because this plays right into antisemitic tropes.

But also, I’ve had people give me a hard time even if I don’t lobby or meddle in politics or display loyalty to Israel. Like, for them to be satisfied, I’d have to feel zero connection to the world Jewish community. So I’m not focused on satisfying anyone or trying to appease their antisemitism by acting perfectly. I’d like the Jewish community relating differently to Israel based on what’s moral, not because I’m worried about how it will affect anyone’s perceptions of us.

[u/Trixeii]

1. How can we help combat anti-semitism in the pro-Palestine movement? How should we respond to people defending Hamas/the loss of civilian Israeli lives? How can we make Jewish people feel safer in pro-Palestinian spaces? And how do we do this while still centering Palestinian suffering?

2. How can we acknowledge and validate the very real pain and fear Jewish people are feeling while also defending the Free Palestine movement from people who claim it’s inherently antisemitic? Like how do we convince everyone that this doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game?

3. Do you feel like there’s a disconnect between the Muslim community and the Jewish community that we need to amend? Because as a Muslim, I feel that is the case.

[u/OrganicOverdose]

I have sooooo many questions:

How do Anti-Zionist Jews honestly engage in situations where their Jewishness is called into question for being Anti-Zionist?

How does one effectively go against the grain when trapped in such a "conversation"?  

How does this affect religiosity? 

How well does Zionism really line up with Judaism for you? How does it make you feel?

How do you feel about non-Jewish people in general? Is there a fear there and has allyship helped? (I ask this because IMO Zionism leverages fear to a significant degree, and, as a "goy" ally with a superficial understanding of Judaism, I often feel like an unintended misstep is imminent due to ignorance, which simply reinforces the fear factor). 

What has changed for you all since October 7? 

What are the demographics in Anti-Zionist circles? I.e., Age, gender, secular/practicing, etc.

Finally, are you guys and girls ok and what can people do to support you?

[u/echtemendel → u/OrganicOverdose]

I can of course only answer for myself. Please note that I'm a kind of Marxist/Leninist/whatever, which is reflected in my answers regarding religion and allyship. Also - feel free to ask any followup question you might have :)

How do Anti-Zionist Jews honestly engage in situations where their Jewishness is called into question for being Anti-Zionist?

With all seriousness: I tell them to go f**k themselves. I'm Jewish on both sides, and both sides come from Germany and Poland (complicated history there). They were all Holocaust victims, and only a handful of survivors. I don't need to prove my "Jewishness" to anyone.

How does one effectively go against the grain when trapped in such a "conversation"?

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I try to stay with the material facts and not be let astray by emotional manipulation. Settler colonialism is bad, period. Apartheid is bad, period. Ethnic cleansing and genocide are bad, period. Nothing which ever happened to Jews justify the colonialist theft of Palestine and the crimes committed against the Palestinian people.

How does this affect religiosity?

As an atheist I truly don't know, and tbh rather not bothered by it. There are both Zionist and anti-Zionist religious Jews so I guess like everything else with belief, it's pretty flexible to fit what you want to believe.

How well does Zionism really line up with Judaism for you? How does it make you feel?

I actually think it fits pretty well, and would fit well with any other religion - again, I see religion (and ideology in general) as subject to a group's material interests, and very rarely being a basic "truth" which dictates everything else. As an evidence, again - there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, you name it.

How do you feel about non-Jewish people in general? Is there a fear there and has allyship helped?

I don't feel any different towards non-Jewish people as I do towards Jewish people, except maybe I have some level of automatic "closeness" to other Jews which I don't with non-Jews, much in the same way I feel closer on some level to other Germans (being a German myself). I'm also not a huge fan of the "allyship" concept - while we're definitely not all equal in every struggle, I do believe that we should all act from a place of group interests (with the basic one being our class), and solidarity and joint struggle is 100% helpful for all.

What has changed for you all since October 7?

For me personally nothing much. I grew up in Israel and I've been saying for years that something like this is bound to happen if the core issue (settler colonialism) isn't resolved. And it's not like I'm some kind of a political genius, everyone in the non-Zionist left could see that something was coming (if not in the specific time and way it did). It's just the nature of indigenous reaction to a process of ethnic cleansing and expulsion, history showed it time and time again. Israel did become much more openly Fascist and genocidal of course, and I can feel it when I talk to Israelis today (in the rare occasion I do).

What are the demographics in Anti-Zionist circles? I.e., Age, gender, secular/practicing, etc.

Depends on the time and place, I guess. In Israel, for example, the vast majority of anti-Zionists are Palestinian citizens. There are very few anti-Zionist Jews there, I probably know most of them personally tbh.

Finally, are you guys and girls ok and what can people do to support you?

Thank you, but I don't think Jews need support at the moment, as such. The important thing is to support the Palestinian struggle for Liberation, and at the same time ensure no anti-Semites take advantage of it (which happens too often). For example, be active in Pro-Palestinian activities (best led by actual Palestinians) and help silence actual anti-Semitic voices which are intentional, while helping to educate the movement on the difference between Zionism and Judaism. I think that's the best think to do atm.

[u/OrganicOverdose → u/echtemendel]

Thanks so much for your responses, mate. I had to flair up to post the question in the first place, and I also struggled with the whole "allyship" concept. But, this sub is called "Jews of Conscience", so that kind of does play a role here. I don't know. It felt weird to me too, but I went with it.

I think I hold a lot of the same views as you, based on your responses. 

In hindsight, maybe my final question was strangely trite or condescending, it wasn't the intention. It simply stemmed from the previous questions potentially having different answers, wherein others may actually be struggling if they are isolated from their community/family for their stance on this issue. Even for me, having this discussion with my non-Jewish friends and family has lead to some heated and difficult conversations. 

[u/echtemendel → u/OrganicOverdose]

No worries, I understand completely :)

[u/Taarguss → u/OrganicOverdose]

1. With a giant fuck you usually

2. I try to keep asserting that the deaths and disruption of Palestinian lives is not worth having a homeland in Israel. I then usually dovetail into talking about how I’m open to a Jewish state somewhere but that Israel was born out of massacre and theft and disrupted the Middle East very seriously and is a failure of a project. That’s a discussion-launcher. More people are open to that than you’d figure. Like, why didn’t Germany give up land? Can’t undo the past but you can ask questions like this and see what the response is.

3. Not at all, when I was a kid I thought Israel was weird and that Israelis were aggressive, difficult and argumentative. I’m mature enough now not to generalize an entire population but uhhh… I mean…

4-5.I turn to religion to engage in the idea that life is not meaningless, that emotions are not just chemicals, and that magic is kind of sort of real because I get depressed when those things aren’t true in my brain. My ancestors are Jewish so I feel most comfortable being religious in a Jewish framework but the Torah is a story. It’s not history. God probably did not tell Moses to take over the promised land. The ancient Hebrews did have two kingdoms in that land, but the idea that it was ordained by god for us to keep it is silly.

But something I do think about is that losing a “homeland” (the ancient Hebrews conquered it and took it over but whatever) with no real hope of getting it back informs us on how to long which is something we’ve had to do a lot because as it turns out, Europeans didn’t like us so much and we had a lot to mourn. So mourning a home from birth makes it all go down easier. Maybe. Idk, I’m kinda freestylong here.

Basically, it does not affect my religious views because Israel as a place for the future of Judaism to be centered is not part of my personal religion.

1. I like non-Jews! I married one! My mom is one! Almost all of my childhood friends were non Jews. I don’t like antisemitism when it’s around, like when people start talking about how Jews run everything, I start thinking they’re generally not very bright and will call them out but in general non-Jews are my homies.

Missteps do happen. People don’t know the history. They oversimplify a long history they just learned about. I saw people earlier this year sharing info graphics about how the Star of David is actually a symbol for Judaism and not just Israel, like that’s some real ignorance right there and while watching people suffer is gut wrenching and wanting to do something about it is natural, to have young people need to learn via an instagram infographic that the Star of David is not an inherently Zionist symbol just made me feel bad.

And I really didn’t like seeing people on October 7th posting that October 7th was a justified act of resistance. Like… idk it’s so many dead civilians. I know colonists have to contend with the threat of revolt, but still like it’s the 21st century. We don’t need to be massacring anyone. Ever. To me that kind of thing is just the cycle of violence, never ending and it made me sad to see that people were cheering it on, even if I understand exactly why it happened. That’s just me though.

1. What changed for me on October 7th was a new feeling that the anti-Zionist movement thus far has been a total failure. Instead of feeling hope, I saw things only getting worse. Peace is not on the near horizon.

2. I think it’s mostly like under 40 people. Who knows what the gender breakdown is but I think most antizionist Jews are from liberal families and probably grew up in Reform Judaism, but maybe not idk. I don’t know how many are practicing today, I get the sense many are sort of culturally Jewish without being synagogue goers, but many are also not.

3. Idk, keep being cool and stuff! Learn about Judaism in general maybe, it’s interesting. And honestly if there’s anything Jews like to talk about, it’s Jews, so the more you know the more there is to chat about.

9.

[u/Solace_In_the_Mist]

Hello everyone!

I'm an ally from the Philippines.

1. I just wanted to ask everyone, if it's acceptable that I study Torah and for me to read about Judaism, in general?

For some time now, I have been reading into religion(s), despite myself being agnostic. This may seem contradictory, but I've been delving onto religious studies and a bit of the history and philosophy of the concept of divinity.

Judaism, as I understand from a still shallow depth, isn't just centered on Torah and the Nevi'im and Ketuvim. Or other texts. But, it's a living and breathing practice - based on community, tradition, rituals, history, etc.

It is far from the religion I grew up which placed salvation and evangelizing as its tenet. And don't get me started on the "Trinity" thing. In fact, I've made effort into consciously deconstructing and separating the "old testament" from the "new testament," effectively any Judeo-Christian amalgamation in my head. Finally, I see them now as different. And it should stay that way, out of respect for my Jewish colleagues.

The Torah is Torah. The NaKh is NaKh. There is no "old" or "new." There is just a way of living and belief that has surpassed in its resilience through thousands and hundreds of years.

2. Lastly, is there a way for me to somewhat see Judaism beyond a Zionist viewpoint - can Judaism be separated from its political core embedded in Zionism? Because I feel if other Zionist Jewish people were to find me interested in Judaism, it would circle back to a support for the State of Israel, when in fact, I see Judaism as a possible relationship between me and the Divine; something that transcends the current political expectations with the people who are labeled as pro-Israel.

TLDR: Going back, I simply want confirmation from the Jewish community if me trying to understand Torah and Judaism is all right with you? Is this offensive? I've heard that even though I'm a gentile I could still learn a thing or two from being a possible Noachide?

Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

[u/specialistsets → u/Solace_In_the_Mist]

2. Lastly, is there a way for me to somewhat see Judaism beyond a Zionist viewpoint - can Judaism be separated from its political core embedded in Zionism?

Is there a particular viewpoint you are referring to? Judaism is the religious tradition of the Jewish people. Zionism is a political ideology, not a religious ideology. So even Zionist Jews who are religious don't necessarily see Zionism as a part of Judaism, but rather a political ideology that they believe is important or necessary for Jews as a people.

[u/Solace_In_the_Mist → u/specialistsets]

Hello there! Perhaps, I'm just overthinking some posts I've been seeing across social media on how both are/could be intertwined. I haven't fully read into their nuances but it just felt to me that Zionism, as the viewpoint, became mixed with Judaism. Hence, the conflict on my side that I am trying to resolve - to see Judaism beyond the politics of Zionism.

[u/specialistsets → u/Solace_In_the_Mist]

to see Judaism beyond the politics of Zionism

It is confusing but it may be helpful to highlight that there is a difference between Jewish Peoplehood (the cultural and ethnic identity of Jews) and Judaism (the religious tradition of the Jewish People). While the two are intertwined and there is certainly overlap, they are indeed different concepts. Zionism is based on Jewish Peoplehood or ethnicity, but not Judaism as a religion. For example, there are many synagogues that fly Israeli flags, but this is not intended to be a religious statement, it is intended to be a statement of support of Israel as an ethnically Jewish state.

[u/Solace_In_the_Mist → u/specialistsets]

Thanks again! I think I need to read more about this. But, going back to Judaism - it doesn't have to be, nor it was, Zionistic basically. I can continue reading more about the Judaism and the Torah, and Jewish culture and history, moving forward nonetheless.

I don't agree with what Zionism is doing. But I can put my heart on learning Judaism, as a gentile, still?

[u/specialistsets → u/Solace_In_the_Mist]

But, going back to Judaism - it doesn't have to be, nor it was, Zionistic basically. 

Zionism is a political movement founded by secular Jews in the late 19th century, it wasn't founded as a religious movement. There is still an ancient and essential Jewish connection to Jerusalem and the broader region (in Jewish tradition called "Eretz Yisrael", literally "Land of Israel") but this is not Zionism, it is Jewish tradition.

But I can put my heart on learning Judaism, as a gentile, still?

Of course, you certainly don't need permission.

[u/ezkori → u/Solace_In_the_Mist]

1. Read the Torah! It’s a fascinating book! The texts exist out there, and so long as you are engaging with them in good faith (and honestly who am I to stop you even if you weren’t). It might not be our only text, nor is it super representative of what modern day Judaism looks like (in many ways), but it is still super fascinating regardless to engage with ancient texts. I would recommend the book of Lamentations, which was just read for the holiday of Tsha BAv. I found so much of it so eerily similar to what I can only imagine is the experience of Palestinians, and that only made the text all the more haunting, in a beauty in the shared experience of pain or smth. I can’t really explain it well. Ill read 2 after and respond accordingly

[u/Solace_In_the_Mist → u/ezkori]

Thank you! This is a sign! I'll give it a go.

[u/specialistsets → u/[deleted]]

2- if you live in Israel, on a scale of 0 to 10, how much does the israeli society live by the teachings of the talmud & mishna & what it says about the goyim?

This is the second time you have asked this in this sub, what do you think the Talmud is and what do you think it says about non-Jews? I am afraid you have a big misunderstanding of what the Talmud is (or isn't), what it contains, how Jews have historically analyzed it and understood it, and what it means to Jews today. As for Israel, their society is predominantly secular so most people would not be familiar with the Mishna or Talmud.