r/JewsOfConscience • u/PEKKACHUNREAL Non-Jewish Ally (Communist) • Jun 16 '24
Activism Symbol for someone who isn’t jewish to clearly show solidarity with jewish people but not the current state of Israel?
Hi guys, I‘m concerned with the acceleration of fascism/ amount of antisemitism in my country and would like to wear something to constantly express my solidarity to jewish people.
But with the amount of commonly known symbols being effectively appropriated by pro apartheid israeli groups, it‘s hard for me to even look up such symbols, because the line between judaism and Israel is being blurred.
Can you recommend something like a piece of clothing or a symbolic pin that I could wear for this?
Or do you even have a better, completely different idea on what I could do? Please tell me!
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u/yeehaw_batman Ashkenazi Jun 17 '24
honestly just a pro palestine symbol bc i think a lot of people would assume that you’re jewish if you used a jewish symbol the best thing you can do to show solidarity with jewish people is to call out actual antisemitism especially within pro palestine spaces
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Jun 17 '24
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Jun 17 '24
I don't really understand this argument. When people say antisemitism, I'm almost 100% sure no one's ever actually meant it to mean anything other than the hatred of jewish people. I know semitic-ness is a Levantine language category, but the term is understood to mean something specific. It's an inaccurate term but everyone's known what it means for 150 years and only feign not to when they're trying to be pedantic in arguments. "Oh, I'm anti-semitic? well I can't be, I'm also a semite." "Palestinians are semites too so they can't be antisemitic." Like... what's the point of this argument? The term was developed by people who wanted to kick out Jews. This is what the term means. I just feel like I see this argument in every comment section on IG and it feels like obfuscation, a way to just "get" someone on a technicality instead of talking about substance.
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u/PEKKACHUNREAL Non-Jewish Ally (Communist) Jun 17 '24
„Palestinians are semites, so they can’t be antisemitic“ is pretty much like saying „Queer people can’t be transphobic“, like, the majority might not be, but there’s even trans people that are transphobic.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Jun 17 '24
Right, it's just a weird way to kick up dust in arguments. Maybe language will change over time and we'll all understand that being a semite is not exclusive to jews, but the term anti-semitism was invented to name the hatred of jews, so while it's inaccurate, it means what it means because people understand it to do so. I just don't buy anyone arguing in good faith who knows where the term comes from actually having strong feelings about this. It just feels like the usual leftist in-fighting roadblock type thing. Like, who gives a shit, people are dying.
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u/Ambitious_Internal_6 Jun 17 '24
Is the same logic as the settlers have . It’s not your land and Jews are not the only semites .! Trying to bend logic or definition to overpower another group is colonialism . It’s like jumbo shrimp or secular religion it’s nonsensical. Appropriation is a popular technique for Israel and the Zionist movement.
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Jun 18 '24
What you’re saying here is literally the definition of sophistry…🤦🏻♂️
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u/Ambitious_Internal_6 Jun 18 '24
What do you think religion is all about? It’s all word salad to convince you to believe in something that has no proof
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Jun 18 '24
I can’t speak on other religions, but Judaism is immensely more complicated than,
convincing you to believe in something that has no proof
And I know you’ve been repeatedly corrected on other threads when you’ve falsely claimed that “antisemitism” shouldn’t be used because Palestinians are ‘Semitic’. If you’re not going to correct yourself when provided with information showing you to be wrong, you probably shouldn’t contribute in this sub
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u/Ambitious_Internal_6 Jun 18 '24
https://m.facebook.com/groups/Informthemedia/permalink/2669493176551800/? Political propaganda word salad. All this Zionist nonsense is pure political nonsense
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u/Ambitious_Internal_6 Jun 18 '24
So what you are saying is you think your god is better than my god . It’s all superstitious make believe yet you think yours is better so you can claim all your beliefs are true while others are false. It’s all nonsense.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Jun 18 '24
Well no. Jews aren’t interested in proving that Jewish religion is better than any other religion. We don’t go out of our way to convert people. We don’t spread the word. Generally thought history we just live within other societies. There’s no “you have to be Jewish or you’re wrong,” like you get from other religions. Israel is sort of the aberration in it all. Having a nation where we rule over people is sort of antithetical to how Jews have lived for 2000 years. We settled into diaspora with varying degrees of success around the world and a lot of us like it this way.
And it is more complex than just trying to prove that our idea of god is better than other people’s and to control people. Some sects of Judaism are very much about control but most of us aren’t even hardcore religious in the first place. I flip between atheism and spirituality every day. A lot of the deep study of Torah comes from a perspective of not taking it literally in the first place.
I don’t think you understand Judaism. I’m happy you’re trying to hang out on a Jewish subreddit, but comments like this indicate that you don’t know a lot about how Jews work. I’d recommend watching like a documentary or something on Jewish culture. But also when you start to just throw in “it’s all fairytales, religion is stupid” on a Jewish subreddit, you’re gonna lose everyone here.
The point of this subreddit is to reckon with the ongoing suffering in Palestine and to talk about non/anti-Zionism. We like it when non Jews come in and share. But don’t be hostile because no one’s gonna listen to you.
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u/Ambitious_Internal_6 Jun 18 '24
So the whole chosen ones and getting to decide if you are a chosen one is not a big part of Judaism.? Thinking you are chosen because you decide to align yourself with this belief system sounds like a superiority complex. It’s a religion anyone can join so according to that anyone can choose to be chosen. Not a lot of logic going on there . Also not a good way to have others view you if you present yourself as superior not equal.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Jun 17 '24
Right but we didn't appropriate it, and it has nothing to do with Zionism. It was given to the world by Europeans contemplating the "Jewish Question" in the 1870s. It was a political movement, political Jewphobia. It was named inaccurately, but it's what it was. They were proudly "antisemitic," in that they hated Jews. That's what it meant in 1879, it's what it still means. It's not an accurate term, but it's universally understood to mean what it means. I don't know about settlers saying they're the only Semites, settlers in general are bad people so whatever they're saying is going to be suspicious, but they'd be wrong if they said that. But antisemitism just means hatred of jews. People can say "jew hatred," and that's fine, whatever. But I don't think we need to be policing people's use of the word antisemitism. It's just useless. Like this argument. It's not doing anything. It's just another argument to have.
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u/PEKKACHUNREAL Non-Jewish Ally (Communist) Jun 17 '24
Well, the word antisemitism was established by assholes explicitly hateful towards Jews, who tried to create a word that made themselves sound less like dimwitted dipshits.
So whilst it might not be the most accurate term, its usage has turned it into a synonyme for „racist towards jewish people“.
And whilst the israeli regime tries to redefine antisemitism as the same as „criticism of Israel in its current state“, real, dangerous antisemitism very much exists and is not addressed enough in even many leftist spaces.
Yes, I‘m also tired of being called an antisemite and beaten up by the cops for just publicly questioning the legitimacy of Israel eradicating more than 30.000 people in a few months, but however tired I may be, I‘ll still make sure to keep my eyes open for occasions where this frustration turns into generalizing hatred, where nazis and conspiracy theorists try to invade pro-palestinian spaces, where actual, real antisemitism, conscious or subconscious, make spaces that are supposed to be open for everyone unapproachable for certain people.
Also, in my opinion, not only shouldn’t we ignore the real problem of antisemitism in the pro-palestinian movement to make it more open to jewish comrades, but also for a better analysis on how Israel became as strong as it is now, and why many jewish people still support it. I mean, the whole premise of „a state where jewish people are safe from antisemitism“ wouldn’t still be backed this strongly by so many jewish people if they didn’t fear another rise of antisemitism as 90 years ago.
Idk if I misunderstood your point, but that’s how I would have interpreted it.
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Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
Also important to note that “antisemitism” doesn’t merely refer to bias and hatred towards Jewish people (and it has absolutely nothing to do with hatred towards people of ‘Semitic’ ethnicity). It refers to a grand conspiracy in which there are a cabal of Jews who control the world and plot the demise of non-Jews for their own benefit. It’s very specific to Jews, and is not an interchangeable phrase that can refer to a general hatred towards any group.
Think of the nature of the term in the same way ‘racism’ is understood in an American context. Racism in this context doesn’t merely refer to bias against others because of their race. It refers to a specific oppression of Black Americans and other POCs that is both a personal bigotry and a systemic one that were formed to uphold the system of white supremacy
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Jun 17 '24
An internationally recognised symbol that showed the holder or wearer to be pro-Jewish/anti-Israel would be amazing. As potent as the pride/pride-trans flag. That would be fucking awesome.
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u/PEKKACHUNREAL Non-Jewish Ally (Communist) Jun 17 '24
Exactly!
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
I guess the problem is that a symbol usually represents one thing, not two, in this case anti something and pro something. Tricky brief
Edit: my pick would still be the Magen David but in a different colour scheme. Something strikingly different from white and blue.
Maybe the top half of the magen; as if it’s a rising sun representing a new day.
Edit 2: just saw Netanyahu on the news with the flag behind them . the sharp edges suddenly seemed aggressive, so maybe a design with softer/rounded points
Edit 3: funny I just saw the Apple intelligence logo. Imagining something like this but with six sides not seven.
https://developer.apple.com/news/images/og/apple-intelligence-og.png
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u/JustLeafy2003 Lebanese Christian | Non-Jewish Ally Jun 17 '24
The closest thing I've seen is not a symbol, but rather something else: a watermelon-themed kippah, which is worn by some anti-Zionist Jews.
I do agree that there needs to be a pro-Palestinian or anti-Zionist yet pro-Jewish symbol.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Jun 17 '24
I'm sorry, but wtf do you mean the "pride-trans" flag? That's not a thing. Also there's not just one "pride flag."
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Jun 17 '24
Okay, TIL it's called the Progress Pride flag
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBT)#/media/File:LGBTQ+_rainbow_flag_Quasar_%22Progress%22_variant.svg#/media/File:LGBTQ+rainbow_flag_Quasar%22Progress%22_variant.svg)
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u/daloypolitsey Jewish Anti-Zionist Jun 16 '24
Maybe an anti fascist symbol?
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u/hotdogsonly666 Ashkenazi Jun 17 '24
There's the black flag with the aleph in it which is the traditional anti-fash Jewish action flag I believe!
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Jun 18 '24
the "anti-german" pro israel folk in germany use some of them gotta be careful
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u/Kreyl Non-Jewish Ally Jun 16 '24
Maybe an item that combines symbols from both Judaism and Palestine into one? Like to show unity and solidarity between them.
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Jun 17 '24
Honestly the best thing you can do to show solidarity is to just properly educate yourself on antisemitism
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u/fallon7riseon8 Jewish Jun 16 '24
Maybe invest in a keffiyeh to show your support to the Palestinian fight for liberation? 🍉
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u/Welcomefriend2023 Post-Zionist Jun 16 '24
7 branched menorah.
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u/moistavocados95 Jun 16 '24
Why a 7 branch menorah specifically? I'm just curious.
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u/Welcomefriend2023 Post-Zionist Jun 16 '24
Its authentically Jewish Biblically speaking. The 9 branched menorah is just for Chanukah. The 7 branched was designed by Hashem and is mentioned in the Torah.
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u/loselyconscious Traditionally Radical Jun 17 '24
It's also the official seal of the state of Israel
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u/moistavocados95 Jun 16 '24
I like this. Thank you!
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Jun 18 '24
it's the seal of the state of israel tho :/
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist Jun 17 '24
I've seen Jewish stars on Palestinian Flags.
Not sure if the overall take on it by Palestinians and anti-Zionists, but there it is.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Jun 17 '24
Is hai/life not all inclusive enough? Does that have Israel connotations?
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Jun 17 '24
I honestly would examine why you feel a desire to wear such an item. I'm not saying wanting to wear something like this is bad, but there are probably better ways of accomplishing what you're wanting to do via other methods.
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u/PEKKACHUNREAL Non-Jewish Ally (Communist) Jun 17 '24
I‘m trans and since seeing people with „trans people are safe with me“-pins gives me a bit more hope that even though there’s a lot of hatred towards my siblings and me, there’s people that stand with me.
And since there have been quite a few people who looked just a bit less worried when seeing me wearing my anti-fascist pins/ kufiya, I would have guessed that most marginalized groups would react in a similar way.
This isn’t supposed to replace any of my actual work against antisemitism, it’s supposed to communicate to others that there’s still people doing it.
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u/stormelc Jun 17 '24
I have a vinyl stick figure sticker on my car that's giving 2 birds to an Israeli flag.
I would love to put something on my car in support of Jewish people against dehumanization, apartheid and subjugation of Palestinians.
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u/chessboxer4 Jun 17 '24
I also want to be a friend to the Jewish people but I oppose the actions of the state of Israel and I'm just not sure it's been a positive situation for anyone 😩💔
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Jun 18 '24
The best way you can be a friend is to learn more about antisemitism, its history, what exactly it is, and how to recognize it. This makes it much easier to correct those who conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. You can also be a good friend by learning more about Jewish history, Jewish identity, and the Jewish faith. This makes it easier to correct those who conflate Judaism with Zionism or the Jewish People with the modern state of Israel
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Jun 17 '24
Just be a decent person and speak up when you have the opportunity to. Sometimes having an easy symbol is negative. It will pigeonhole you. Just be an ally, it's appreciated.
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u/Nati_Hell Jun 17 '24
Watermelon Kippah or Palestinian flag Kippah
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u/DurianVisual3167 Jewish Jun 17 '24
Focus on behavior rather than wearing a symbol. People can wear a pin or declare support but then every part of their behavior says the opposite. I've seen people say they don't support antisemitism but then perpetuate it at every opportunity, people with pride flags that are transphobic or even homophobic, or people saying their progressive but turns out they are Zionists. I personally don't trust people over what symbols they don, especially not anymore.
Besides, appropriation of Jewish symbols has always been a problem but even more recently since Christians have started wearing the magen David to represent their hatred of Palestinians.
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u/Wonton_Agamic A Religious Bundist a.k.a. A Living Contradiction Jul 07 '24
I realise that this post is almost a month old now. Anyways, as a Jew I have started using the menorah 🕎 as the symbol for my identity instead of the Star of David. Mostly as a protest against Israel’s government.
I also printed a pin with a menorah against a watermelon background which I have put on my bag. It’s not overtly political in either way which lets me stealth well but signals well to pro-Palestine activists etc. while not being off putting in the Jewish groups I frequent.
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u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 07 '24
menorah against a watermelon background
I'll make this into a flair for our sub!
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u/Exciting-Sock4011 Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
As a Muslim, if someone told me they refuse to associate themselves with any Muslim symbol or holiday because some political group made it look bad I would feel very hurt. I need to ask you literally read the room and be mindful of the questions you ask on here. Wear the Star of David in solidarity proudly. It will always be a Jewish symbol and no one can take that away from them.
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Jun 18 '24
Thank you ❤️ I’m actually not too offended by OPs concern. It can be very confusing when trying separate what is Judaism from what is Zionism, even for us Jews. But I think most Jews would prefer for non-Jews to avoid wearing the Star of David necklace and other Jewish symbols. The intention is deeply respected, but it’s a symbol of the Jewish identity of the person who wears it. So if you’re not in the “tribe”, it feels odd.
The best way to show solidarity with Jews and us anti-Zionist Jews is not thru the symbols you show the world, but rather what you hold in your head and in your heart. Knowledge and compassion
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u/RaydenAdro Jun 17 '24
I wear a ‘Star of David’ on my necklace. I’m not Jewish but feel like it’s important to support Jewish people during these times
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u/yeehaw_batman Ashkenazi Jun 18 '24
love that you want to show support but that is a jewish symbol and wearing it implies that you are jewish it’s better to just not wear it
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u/RaydenAdro Jun 19 '24
Really, why? My husband is Jewish and he’s too nervous/scared to wear a Star, so I do.
I’m fine with people thinking I’m Jewish. We need more Jews in the world. They are the smallest minority.
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u/dadverine Reconstructionist Jun 16 '24
I can't think of anything useful like that, I'm sorry. I think the best thing to do would be to stand up for us and otherwise let your behavior speak for you! I appreciate your desire to be an ally.