r/InternationalNews • u/Reddit_Sucks_1401 • Nov 11 '24
Opinion/Analysis One thing I’m sure of: Harris offered voters nothing on Gaza, and it mattered in the result | Nesrine Malik
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/11/kamal-harris-gaza-democrats-arab-american-voters-donald-trump87
u/AdventureBirdDog Nov 11 '24
Not true. Harris offered contempt for their passion and humanity. Sending Bill Clinton to Michigan to tell arabs that Israel has to kill their families, to try to understand Israel's perspective, and telling them that Israel was there before Palestine. Also campaigning with Liz Cheney
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u/Reddit_Sucks_1401 Nov 11 '24
I would be sceptical of post-election analyses in the wake of what is seen as a shock result. For both sides, voting patterns at this point are a sort of Rorschach test – people will see what they want to see. What I offer here is a mix of instinct and conjecture (what’s new, I hear you ask). But it is based on one specific factor that doesn’t come as a shock, and which was predicted to harm the Kamala Harris campaign. We can be certain that the Democrats lost voters because of Gaza. The numbers are stark. Another certainty is that those voters will still not be heard.
In Dearborn, Michigan, the largest majority Arab American city, Joe Biden won in 2020 with around 70% of the vote. Early stats indicate that Harris received something like 40% of the vote. As concerns over the war were raised loudly and specifically, Harris not only continued to ignore and isolate these voices, but also the campaign sent Bill Clinton out to shush them. Harris never even visited the city. But guess who did? That’s right, Donald Trump. And now he’s won in Dearborn and taken all of Michigan.
“Even if he will continue this genocide at a 99% chance,” one voter who cast her ballot for Trump said, “I’m going to take that 1% chance that he’s going to stop it, as opposed to the 100% chance that it’s going to continue under Harris.”
That sentiment perfectly encapsulates a sense of a political dead end that has developed over the past year. The Democrats promised to provide stability and protect a status quo threatened by a volatile opponent, but with that promise of continuity came the certainty that nothing was going to change. Yet in relation to the war in Gaza and Lebanon, nothing changing was, to many, not an option.
Events in Palestine and the broader Middle East over 13 relentless months have driven despair and estrangement. First there is the psychological effect of the images and footage of the killing – most of all, of the children. And it’s not just the death, but the nature of it. Thousands are being mangled, torn apart, buried under buildings, their parts collected in plastic bags for burial. We are not wired to absorb such horror without sustaining profound injury and moral trauma. It changes you.
Add to that the way that the Democrats and the broader liberal establishment have responded to this shock and anger. Palestinian Americans were not even allowed a speaking slot at the Democratic national convention in August. The Muslim Women for Harris group immediately disbanded after the speaking request was declined. Other groups, such as the United Auto Workers, which had already endorsed Harris, posted a strong objection. Popular protests were smeared as “connected to Russia” by Democratic party grandees such as Nancy Pelosi. Students across university campuses were accused of antisemitism by liberal media outlets, and then their protests and encampments were stormed, and they were arrested by police.
In both the continuing killing and ethnic cleansing, and the refusal to do anything about it but at best express sorrow at the sad state of affairs, there is a personal message, one that is sent to those of Arab background: people like you do not matter. This is a message that extends to others from the global south, or those who identify with Palestinians as an oppressed, racialised ethnicity – and who, whatever their background, are alienated by the Democratic party’s unresponsiveness to their concerns.
Inspire all these feelings of trauma, erasure and contempt in people, and they start to vote in ways that are an expression of those feelings. That expression is multifaceted: rage, nihilism, disconnection, last-chance-saloon gambling. Trump may seem like a wild card, but at least with a wild card there is still a chance of an upside, of an unlikely – but still possible – positive outcome. Because these guys? Well, screw these guys. They’ve told us who they are, and who they think we are.
I am ventriloquising here, I know. But these thoughts and behaviours are understandable given the choices on offer. I saw it in the UK election, too, this insistence that voters stop being ridiculous – and focus on the fact that the other option is probably worse. But in the disorientation and anxiety that arise from seeing atrocity after atrocity on a daily basis, there is no rational calculation of what could be “worse” in the future. Only a desperation to end what is intolerable in the present.
There has been a foolish belief on the part of Democrats that you can place loyal voters under extreme duress and still expect their votes – a belief entrenched by the fact that they saw in their opponent a helpful scarecrow who is explicitly racist, nihilistic, Islamophobic, and anti-democratic. But the voters the party has lost understand that the Democrats are, implicitly, all of those things too.
This is where agency comes into what is, on the face of it, an illogical rejection of Harris on the part of voters upset by Gaza. Voting is, above all, an exercise in free will – the only free will individuals have in an electoral system dominated by celebrities, wealthy donors and a media in thrall to both. (Even Queen Latifah endorsed Harris, said one MSNBC host – and “she never endorses anyone!” – as proof of Kamala’s “flawless” campaign). Disempower voters and they will seize back that power in the only way they can, showing you that they have a choice by rejecting the status quo. The voters who switched to Trump will get the headlines, but there will probably be many who went third party, or simply stayed at home. The Democrats broke their pact with many members of the electorate, and then were shocked that voters did not unilaterally uphold it.
You will hear a lot in the next few days from liberals about how it’s time to “listen to voters”, as if voters have not been speaking loudly now for months. And if people were to finally listen, I would wager that instead of engaging with demands for a ceasefire and an arms embargo, they would still only fixate on all sorts of tangential explanations. Is Trump some sort of malign wizard who bewitched people into thinking he would deliver their wishes? Are these people credulous, sectarian or just plain wrong?
Because ultimately for the Democrats, the same moral vacuum that has enabled and allowed the slaughter in Gaza to continue is the same one that prevents them from seeing voters as ethical beings. The realpolitik attitude that weighed up Palestinian lives against loyalty to Israel is the same one that cannot conceive voters who do not also act in similarly cold and self-interested ways.
The feeling of unperturbed exceptionalism is the same one that cannot allow them to understand the sense of vulnerability, precarity and fear that the past year has given rise to. Those astonished by Trump’s win and who worry about the terrifying era that he is about to usher in will never grasp that to many, that world is already here, they’ve just not been living in it.
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u/TheOrchidsAreAlright Nov 11 '24
It does seem there is a real problem with the Dems not offering a real alternative vision to counteract the Republicans.
Trump is saying "I want to return to the good old days. Plentiful jobs, US dominance, inappropriate jokes, cheap gas". That's what he's selling. What are the Dems actually selling? They aren't with Trump, who is basically cheerleading for Netanyahu. But they're not with Bernie saying "Israel has broken international law, this must end".
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Nov 11 '24
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u/lookaway123 Nov 11 '24
And now they're blaming voters for not capitulating to their extortion.
All she had to do was call for peace. Constituents were begging to vote for anyone other than Biden.
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u/Fenrils Nov 11 '24
not offering a real alternative vision to counteract the Republicans.
Yup, Democrat campaigning for the past 20+ years has been "We're like Republicans but more diverse and with less nazis. Please vote for us centrists!" Frankly, the only reason Obama won was because he was generationally charismatic, alongside effectively lying about being progressive. Both Harris and Clinton campaigned to the right, ignoring the very real problems of those on the left in favor of hoping to get votes from centrists and right of center republicans. Trump didn't gain very many votes, but Harris lost a lot of votes due to this shitty campaign strategy, and according to the now-leaking internal messaging, even those inside her campaign were sounding the alarm bells weeks ago.
Trump is saying "I want to return to the good old days. Plentiful jobs, US dominance, inappropriate jokes, cheap gas". That's what he's selling. What are the Dems actually selling?
100% on the money. Now, Trump is obviously lying about his strategies and priorities, we all know this. But that doesn't really matter because his core cultists believe it and even those hesitantly voting for him are hoping that Trump succeeds in his promises. What was Harris saying? That start-ups get $25k? Ok that's nice but completely fucking meaningless to the 98% of everyone else who just needs food on their tables and a roof over their heads. I'm not even saying that Harris' policies are/were bad, to be clear, but she never directly tackled the things that voters have been screaming about for years. You know who did address those things? Trump. Like it or not, he gave his voting base the reason for those problems (immigrants and LGBTQ people) and a way to fix them (deportation, tariffs, etc.). He's an asshole, lying, bigot but at least he was telling them what they wanted to hear.
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u/TiRaRaw Nov 12 '24
There's no official job title of VPN, plus she only had 100 days.
Stop blaming start organizing
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u/Chloe1906 Nov 11 '24
I love this. It’s well written and concisely puts into words what I’ve been trying to get across to non-Arab/Muslim Americans for a week now. Thank you for sharing, OP.
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u/Reddit_Sucks_1401 Nov 11 '24
Because ultimately for the Democrats, the same moral vacuum that has enabled and allowed the slaughter in Gaza to continue is the same one that prevents them from seeing voters as ethical beings. The realpolitik attitude that weighed up Palestinian lives against loyalty to Israel is the same one that cannot conceive voters who do not also act in similarly cold and self-interested ways.
This
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u/re_carn Nov 11 '24
Harvard Prof. Christopher Robichaud is trying to explain why dems lost.
Everyone in the days and weeks ahead will use this loss as an opportunity to seek validation for their own hobby horse complaint. Harris lost because she campaigned with Liz Cheney. Harris lost because she didn’t embrace Gaza. Harris lost because she didn’t choose Shapiro. Harris lost because she wasn’t progressive enough (possibly my favorite one). Take a good hard look at the map, my friends. Trump has won the popular vote. Trump ran the table. Explaining that with your hobby horse issue isn’t going to cut it, tempting and consoling as it may be.
For them, it's just a "hobby horse".
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u/political-bureau Nov 11 '24
It's a combination of things. People wanted change from Biden. Harris said she wouldn't change a thing from the Biden policy. It also didn't help Harris spent the last month of the campaign trying to appeal to Cheney Republicans and sent surrogates to talk down & admonish voters, etc.
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u/JFHermes Nov 11 '24
Biden received 81 million votes and Harris got 70 million.
She haemorrhaged votes left, right and centre. It was a combination of all those things. The biggest needle mover was Gaza because it was critical to Michigan which was a swing state. Being progressive enough is a serious problem with the democrats, who knows what kind of turnout they would get if they actually had someone take up a socialist platform to the chagrin of corporate donors.
Trump and the republicans actually listen to and engage with their voters. Harris went centre right because that's what the donors want. She ran the campaign for them and not for voters and the result is self evident of that.
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u/TryptaMagiciaN Nov 11 '24
chagrin of corporate donors.
Its not just chagrin. It is prohibited by them or the DNC to nominate such a candidate. Bernie dropped out 2weeks before the nomination. They are aware of the socialist appeal and take steps to sageguard against it. Hence they ran Biden as a much more progressive candidate and once in office all of that simply disappeared. This is why people on the left say that it is really a single party dressed in 2 colors. Their goals are much the same in regards to democratic socialism. It is prohibited.
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u/Shackram_MKII Nov 11 '24
The Democratic party doesn't exist to beat the gop, that's just a bonus. The de democratic party's purpose is to stop a more progressive left gaining influence in politics, as that could threaten the Dem donors.
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u/AmazingHighlight7416 Nov 11 '24
The democrats running on a pro war platform while trying to claim the moral high ground is not a “hobby horse” is what you’re trying to say right?
Who is them? “People say they suck” -DJT
Please try not to use us or them in speech. Because after all we’re only ordinary men.
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u/CyonHal Nov 11 '24
Errr, I dont think Robichaud is an ally here. He said the Gaza issue is a hobby horse.
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u/FeijoadaAceitavel Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
Trump has won the popular vote
He didn't get even 1kk more votes than in 2020. Meanwhile Dems lost 10kk votes. The election wasn't decided by Trump increasing his voters, it was decided by Dems losing theirs.
Most of what that author explains as "hobby horses" can be summed up as "Kamala wasn't leftist enough". And that's the core of the issue. Campaigning with old time Republicans, supporting Israel, not being more progressive, in short not being to the left and not incentivizing leftists to vote for her while pandering to a mythical "moderate conservative" that, as we have seen, doesn't make up for the leftist votes, if they exist at all after Trump took over the Republican party.
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u/Pirat6662001 Nov 11 '24
Trump already has .5 million more votes than in 2020. There are still 5% of the total to count, he will get at least 2 more million from that. So he has 2.5 million more votes than 2020
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u/FeijoadaAceitavel Nov 11 '24
Yeah, I forgot the second "k" in the number. But my point stands, had the Dems kept the same number of votes as in 2020, they'd win the popular vote (don't know enough about the electoral college to comment on that front). This election was more about leftists leaving the Dems because Biden and Harris campaigned to the right than Trump getting new voters.
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u/Pirat6662001 Nov 11 '24
He has increased his popular vote by millions every election. I don't think we can discount his ability to draw new people. If you had 5 million more get energized to vote, he would capture a good chunk of them. Dems were never getting 2020 results due to a bunch of factors.
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u/baddadjokesminusdad Nov 11 '24
Sounds like Harris didn’t offer voters anything except stern talking down to by her and bj president and drone president. So they didn’t bite.
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u/WallabyUpstairs1496 Nov 11 '24
For many voters in the blue states, they still vote for the president is seen as a badge of honor.
There's no badge of honor for voting someone who is facilitating and white washing a genocide. It's a badge of shame.
Might be one of the reasons she's the first democratic candidate to lose the popular vote since 2004.
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u/Joshistotle Nov 11 '24
But what if the goal isn't to win the election, and it's just to put up some sort of political theater to keep the public distracted.
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u/weakisnotpeaceful Nov 11 '24
I don't want them to listen. I want them to go away forever. They have broken the contract.
".. in the disorientation and anxiety that arise from seeing atrocity after atrocity on a daily basis, there is no rational calculation of what could be 'worse' ... "
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u/Deedogg11 United States Nov 11 '24
Joe Biden’s approval rating has been below 40% for a long time. That isn’t deniable. Harris as a continuation of Biden wasn’t going to work. I usually list about 10 different “hobby horses” when I try to explain why the democrats got hammered in the election. Basically Biden was perceived as not caring about things that certain voters cared about. Harris failed to explain why she would be different.
So those voters didn’t vote for her. Sank some of the down ballot too.
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u/Stacysguyca Nov 11 '24
They’re all Israeli puppets lol
They’re not stopping anything against Israel.
All talk
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u/adeveloper2 Nov 11 '24
Harris courting Israeli and Zionist in 2024 is like Clinton campaigning in Texas in 2016.
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u/DavidSugarbush Nov 11 '24
She said "I will be silent on Gaza" and then proceeded to be completely silent on Gaza. The Israel lobby has more sway over American politicians than American voters do.
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u/cahir11 Nov 11 '24
it mattered in the result
Not really. Maybe if the election had been close and come down to Michigan, like in 2016. But this was a landslide. The American electorate broadly speaking doesn't care about Gaza, if it did then 51% of the voters wouldn't have chosen the guy who's rabidly pro-Israel.
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u/Flat_Actuator_33 Nov 13 '24
Trump’s first picks are die-hard Israel supporters, mocking the pro-Palestinian protest vote
https://forward.com/opinion/674533/trump-rubio-huckabee-stefanik-israel/
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u/reyntime Nov 11 '24
Those who didn't vote for Harris have voted for untold destruction to the planet for future generations, as well as a fascist racist dictator who's first action last time was a Muslim ban and calls for the shooting and deportation of "radical left" Palestine protestors.
He will also tear families apart with his horrific immigration rhetoric, and is an absolute monster for attacking trans people's right to basic dignity, acceptance and medical care.
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u/Damascinos Nov 11 '24
Arab Americans are deluding themselves if they think the political establishment sees them as a viable electorate to listen to. It’s always been like this and will always be like this as long as Arab Americans aren’t united behind a national organization that can lobby on behalf of general Arab American interests nationally. That’s how the game is played, not random pockets of Arab American towns and cities voting one way or another. These little groupings In Michigan of Arab Americans means nothing.
Harris might have offered nothing substantial to assure Arab Americans vis a vis the genocide in Gaza but Trump has already proven during his first term he offers nothing at all for Middle East stability and recognizing the suffering Palestinians have endured since the Nakba, ie moving the embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing the annexation of the Golan Heights, ignoring settler expansions to name just a few.
Voting for Harris may have done nothing if she were to be elected but now Arab Americans are almost guaranteed more instability in their cultural homeland than before.
There’s a reason why the United States continues it’s inhumane boycott on Cuba. Cuban American lobbyists. And that is what Arab Americans don’t have lobbyists. No one should really care if they voted for Harris or Trump because at the end of the day, anyone that really understands how the American political system functions knows that policy is only as good as how much votes in the legislative can be bought.
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u/Conscious_Season6819 Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
Really? Even after the election and over a year from Oct. 7 liberals are still yelling, “BUT TRUMP!”
Harris might have offered nothing vis a vis the genocide in Gaza…
That’s it. You can end the sentence right there. She offered nothing on Gaza, which is why she lost their vote.
You don’t need to insert a hypothetical about what Trump might do as president compared to what Biden and Harris actually did. A blue genocide is just as bad as a red genocide.
She blew it and lost their vote. It’s not the job of the voters to shut up and fall in line; it’s the job of the candidate to earn their vote.
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u/Damascinos Nov 11 '24
I’m not even yelling but trump. If there’s anything you should be getting out of what I wrote is that no political nominee for whatever office is going to offer anything remotely close to what Arab Americans value unless they have a strong lobby. There’s no reason to cater to an electorate if there is no consequence.
In this election it wouldn’t have mattered if she lost Michigan or not.
I don’t care enough about you to explain it further than that, especially when it was obvious what I was writing and you came up with an emotional rebuttal and further you thought what Trump has already done was a hypothetical. Lmao clown
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u/Conscious_Season6819 Nov 11 '24
Our bought and sold political system is already completely corrupt from corporate lobbying and special interests, and your solution is for Arab-Americans to band together and do their own form of lobbying?
The absolute last thing our country needs is more lobbyists. Arab-Americans should not be trying to "play the game" of political lobbying to try to win influence with politicians. That's a bad system. Tear it down.
"We’re going to fight racism not with racism, but we’re going to fight with solidarity. We say we’re not going to fight capitalism with black capitalism, but we’re going to fight it with socialism" - Fred Hampton
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u/oncothrow Nov 11 '24
"We’re going to fight racism not with racism, but we’re going to fight with solidarity. We say we’re not going to fight capitalism with black capitalism, but we’re going to fight it with socialism" - Fred Hampton
For those that don't know, Fred Hampton was head of the Black Panthers. As with most who go against establishment, he was smeared as a violent racist radical in the press, and then assassinated.
He came to prominence in his late teens and early 20s in Chicago as deputy chairman of the national Black Panther Party and chair of the Illinois chapter. As a progressive African American, he founded the anti-racist, anti-classist Rainbow Coalition,[4] a prominent multicultural political organization that initially included the Black Panthers, Young Patriots (which organized poor whites), and the Young Lords (which organized Hispanics), and an alliance among major Chicago street gangs to help them end infighting and work for social change. Hampton considered fascism the greatest threat, saying "nothing is more important than stopping fascism, because fascism will stop us all."[5][6]
In 1967, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) identified Hampton as a radical threat. It tried to subvert his activities in Chicago, sowing disinformation among black progressive groups and placing a counterintelligence operative in the local Panthers organization. In December 1969, Hampton was drugged,[7][8] then shot and killed in his bed during a predawn raid at his Chicago apartment by a tactical unit of the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, who received aid from the Chicago Police Department and the FBI leading up to the attack.
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u/rd-- Nov 11 '24
There’s no reason to cater to an electorate if there is no consequence.
They lost the popular vote to Trump. It can't be pinned entirely on Gaza but the general trend of offering little to no change and moving to the right on virtually all policy did infact have consequences.
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u/Chloe1906 Nov 11 '24
Re: moving the embassy to Jerusalem:
A majority of both republican and democrat senators approved moving the embassy to Jerusalem in 1995 when they passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Both republican and democratic presidents delayed executing the Act every 6 months for years on end because they didn’t want the political controversy. Until Trump finally signed it.
But neither party ever condemned the Act, much less fought back against it. Democrats were going to do the same as Trump but were waiting for a more politically expedient time. And when Trump signed it they hypocritically scolded him for it, while they didn’t do shit all these years, thinking we wouldn’t remember. And it worked. A lot of people don’t remember. But Arab Americans remember.
And that’s what people who are shocked about this also don’t understand. Every time either party gets in power, we suffer. And Dems say they are for us, but when republicans get elected and do damage, Dems who get elected later on don’t do anything to push back against the damage. They let it happen and use it to score political points for themselves. Hell, at least republicans are direct about not giving a fuck about us. It somehow comes off as more respectful than Dems lying to us all the time.
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u/djangoman2k Nov 11 '24
Between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, if you think Trump is better for Gaza than Harris, then there's simply no arguing with you.
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u/Flat_Actuator_33 Nov 11 '24
Pro-Palestinian people voting for Trump is like poor people voting to end Obamacare. Just to vent rage and own the libs..
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u/3rbi Nov 11 '24
You don't understand , Palestinians are fucked behind either administration. Both Sides are zionist puppets.
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Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
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u/muhummzy Nov 11 '24
Mask off moment. You hope trump kills palestinians more because arabs didnt vote for the person supporting a genocide
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Nov 11 '24
exactly, maybe they should say I hope the dems loved killing palestiniand so much that it was worth 4 yrs of more trump. Dnc sold us away to kill and.profit from genocide..but we're the silly ones.
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u/Reddit_Sucks_1401 Nov 11 '24
They don't really care. They've resigned themselves to the fact that America is never going to stop supporting Israel, no matter who's in charge. It was under Biden, and by extension Harris, that Israel dropped 85k tonnes of bombs on them. It was under them that the genocide started.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
Tell me you haven't been paying attention to the news about Gaza without telling you haven't been paying attention to the news about Gaza
Every single thing blue MAGA threatens will happen to Gaza under Trump already happened under Biden/Harris
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Nov 11 '24
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
It's already happening, and would have continued under Biden/Harris or Trump, not my problem that you haven't paid attention
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Nov 11 '24
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
Look at you, repeating Zionist genocidal talking points. Yep you certainly care about Palestinians.
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u/InternationalNews-ModTeam Nov 12 '24
We want to remind you all to keep the discussions here civil and respectful. Please avoid name-calling, passive-aggressive comments, and any form of personal attacks. If you come across any inappropriate messages, please report them instead of responding with a retort. Let’s maintain a positive and constructive environment and assume that everyone is arguing in good faith until proven otherwise.
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Nov 11 '24
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u/voxpopper Nov 11 '24
"You cant work with Republicans on Palestine but you could have with democrats."
A year of slaughter and destruction say otherwise. The DNC wouldn't even defend one of their own from censure, let alone offer any hope to 'work' with them on peace.23
u/Reddit_Sucks_1401 Nov 11 '24
I agree that letting the Republicans win was a dumb move, but what we've seen in the past year of genocide is that both the Dems and Republicans don't care about Palestine at all. Every single one of them are bought and paid for by AIPAC.
And its not like Palestine was the only reason they lost. There were other issues too.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
Harris refused to even meet with Arab American community leaders and consistently supported the genocide through their actions and you think it would have been easier to deal with Harris on Palestine, you're hilarious.
Trump will just be less of a hypocrite about his absolute support for Israel, unlike Biden/Harris who absolutely support Israel through action while saying niceties on the surface
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u/Lord_King_Chief Nov 11 '24
Ok. So if its all bad news. Why throw away democracy for trump?
Because no one gives a shit about palestenians. They're just anti democrat.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
Harris ran a platform very similar to Trump's while pretending to criticize Trump, bragging about building more of the wall than Trump, how tough they'd been on immigration (she would be correct because more people were deported/returned/expelled/etc under Obama and Biden than Trump), how they had record oil production and fracking under their admin (Biden actually gave more permits to drill public land than Trump), how they'd have a lethal military, how they'll absolutely support Israel, clearly to WWIII to the point of not being able to spend money on domestic programs anyway from an overblown military budget. They said nothing about universities cracking down on anti-genocide protesters, and Hillary Clinton specifically called to censor the media more so that they don't lose "control".
She and Democrats also refuse to act on codifying Roe, Harris strictly talked about making medical exceptions for abortion and not codifying Roe, Biden and Obama had a chance to codify Roe and they didn't do it. She said she'll leave trans rights to the states like I knew she would, she was clearly betting hard on winning "moderate" Republicans by avoiding talking about LGBTQ or abortion, or anything they deemed "far left". They bragged about support from the Cheneys - Liz voted with Trump 90% of the time and Dick killed millions of Iraqis, and passed that fascist law the Patriot Act in the US, and supported torture. DNC removed their opposition to torture from their policy for Harris' campaign.
Democrats keep moving right no matter whether they win or lose, and we know that Democrats, even if they win Congress and the White House, won't pass progressive laws about abortion or LGBTQ+ rights because they'll have more and more conservative Democrats like Manchin. They don't even talk about universal healthcare anymore.
Many Palestinians themselves know that there won't be much difference between Harris and Trump for them.
If you people truly cared about Palestine you'd demand Harris/Biden to arms embargo Israel now while they're still in power like we have been for months, but I know you won't do that.
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u/Lord_King_Chief Nov 11 '24
Well good thing all those protest votes got you absolutely nothing that you wanted and now youve lost your seat at the negotiating table so good job.
There won't be a Palestine or any palestenians left. There aren't any second chances.
You've made your bed now lie in it. Watch this genocide unfold and know thay American weapons and government support for it will only increase now. The guardrails and safeties have been removed.
I weep for palestenians. I weep for Americans who were betrayed by their countrymen for virtue signaling that accomplished nothing.
Get ready for levels of Islamophobia not seen in America since 2002
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u/bobdylan401 Nov 11 '24
There were no guard rails or safety measures. We paused literally one shipment of 10 ton bombs and then sent them anyway and they were dropped directly on a bunch of refugee tents creating like a 40 foot (deep) crater. People needed ladders to get the bottom to pick up shreds of remnants of their families.
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u/Lord_King_Chief Nov 11 '24
And its about to get worse under trump. But hey, at least I will have to suffer too now as an American.
Now no one can help anyone. Good job.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
You and other Democrat loyalists hasn't done anything for Palestine so far so why should we expect anything from you now? The fact that you refuse to demand arms embargo against Israel now speaks volumes.
At this rate, Gaza might not exist for the most part by Jan 6. American doctors who volunteered in Iraq, Ukraine were saying the Gazan health ministry stopped functioning months ago, and the real direct death count was closer to ~100k, and with indirect deaths the real death toll tends to be 2-4x that so that's 200-400k dead - months ago when they reported this, before Israeli siege and starvation of Northern Gaza. All under Biden/Harris. That's an estimated 10-30% of Gazan people dead.
And that's not a "real" genocide for you, and Trump would somehow make it worse, of course.
And Biden/Harris hasn't indicated they'll change course at all, they've said niceties about a ceasefire while absolutely supporting Israel and all their lies/confessions from tortured Palestinians for genocide, to keep bombing hospitals and schools and refugee camps. It's very clear Palestine would have disappeared under Harris or Trump.
At least with Trump, he might work to get the US out of NATO and the UN, and encourage an international backlash against the US/Israel. The chances aren't that big, but bigger than under Harris at this point, that's how bad Biden/Harris had been the past year of genocide.
Your ignorance of reality is profound.
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u/Lord_King_Chief Nov 11 '24
Delusional. It was never about genocide or Palestine. It was about getting trump elected.
This was just a convenient issue to hammer them with.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24
Yep I know Democrat loyalists think that, that's why they'll lose 2028, too
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u/Lord_King_Chief Nov 11 '24
See folks? This right here is the proof of what i was talking about. It was never about Palestine. Just about hurting dems.
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u/justwantanaccount Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
I mean gosh why would people support Dems when they keep throwing everyone - migrants, pro-Roe activists, anti-genocide protesters, LGBTQ+ activists, blue collar workers, etc - under the bus, to the point that they're no longer meaningfully better than GOP on the issues they care the most about?
EDIT: Forgot to mention climate activists. All to chase after non-existent "moderate" Republican votes, too.
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u/reyntime Nov 11 '24
Elon Musk played right into these virtue signalling leftists' hands by pushing the anti Harris narrative via America PAC. He played them like a fool and now the world will suffer so much more under the orange racist rapist fascist dictator.
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