r/InternationalNews • u/speakhyroglyphically • Jun 17 '24
Ukraine/Russia Key global powers refuse to sign Ukraine peace document
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u/_Foy Jun 17 '24
"Russia was not invited"
lmfao... if this is how peace worked there would never be any wars ever: "I'm sorry, but I've decided we're at peace, actually, so..."
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u/AdventureBirdDog Jun 17 '24
G7 doesn't give a shit about ukrainians or Peace. They just like using Ukrainian young men as cannon fodder for their bullshit proxy war
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u/nassy7 Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
I like how the Western media tried to sell it like „Russia wouldn’t come either, even if invited because (Russia-bad-reasons)".
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u/Fast_Sector_7049 Jun 17 '24
Nazi Germany was famously invited to the Tehran/Yalta Conferences
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u/konchitsya__leto Jun 17 '24
Ukraine is not in the same position as the Allies at Tehran, who at that time were already driving Germany back while starving them of oil
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u/sarim25 Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
That's the reason why the UN was started and the G7 were created in the 1970s...to allow for communications and avoid another WW.
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u/Fast_Sector_7049 Jun 17 '24
Also created to preserve human rights and legislate and uphold international law…. Lol
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u/noisylettuce Jun 17 '24
It's Nazis & Zionists vs the World.
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u/ihatepitbullsalot Jun 17 '24
Dangerous, extremist, and racist ideologies should not exist. Zionism is a danger to the world. Even United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379, adopted on November 10, 1975, "Determines that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.” This Resolution should have never been removed.
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u/00to100 Jun 17 '24
I'm sorry but fk all this hypocrisy and double standard. Where is this energy when it comes to Occupied Palestine horrors? Zionist controlled G7 summit.
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u/ibtcsexy Jun 17 '24
Have you forgotten that Russia is an ally of Hamas having done numerous visits to Moscow since October 7?
A quote from Sinwar: "It [Russia] has played a significant role in recent years. It definitely played a role in recent days. We believe that Russia should play an even more active and positive role. Russia can play a very significant role in the Palestinian scene, and with regard to the conflict in the region."
The geopolitics regarding BRICS is complicated. Hamas uses weapons and supplies from Russia, China, North Korea and the Islamic Republic of Iran. Iranians joined in Russia and the South Africa role is notable too.
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u/00to100 Jun 17 '24
Have you ever watched Star Wars?
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u/ibtcsexy Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
Ignoring my question (and everything else I wrote) and asking one back that's a red herring
So clearly you didn't ask your initial question in your first comment in good faith.
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Jun 18 '24
Ignoring my question (and everything else I wrote) and asking one back that's a red herring
Lmao
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Jun 19 '24
I would love to hear from you why you think Israel said selling Ukraine iron dome technology was “a non starter”? Because I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the very lucrative trade partnership that Israel and Russia have that has only become more beneficial to Israel since western sanctions on Russia
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u/popularpragmatism Jun 17 '24
What a stupid waste of money these people are..expensive tax payer funded irrelevant summits on every topic imaginable.
Achieving nothing other than making arrangements for the next junket at another expensive resort.
The political & establishment 'elites' really are parasites on society
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u/Binfe101 Jun 18 '24
The double standards and hypocrisy of the western powers is exposed when dealing with Ukraine and Gaza, and it stinks. The rest of the world have noses and they are staying far away, for good reason
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u/speakhyroglyphically Jun 17 '24
Jun 17, 2024 - The majority of countries at a summit for peace in Ukraine signed a text endorsing Ukraine’s territorial integrity in its war against Russia, but major global players like India and Saudi Arabia didn’t.
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u/Marcusss_sss Jun 17 '24
How many of you genuinely think what russia is doing is right?
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Jun 17 '24
[deleted]
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u/Whiskeypants17 Jun 17 '24
Yeah so we already found out back in ww2 how appeasement goes. If you are not familiar it goes with hitler taking over everything anyway and then murdering over 10 million people. The aggressor must be actively prevented from continuing their aggression past their own borders.
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 17 '24
You can’t just discard the entire concept of negotiated peace by saying “appeasement” and appealing to world war 2.
Negotiated peace deals have worked out many many times and making an appeal to WW2 as if that’s the only possible outcome of a negotiated peace is a fallacy. It’s faulty logic.
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u/konchitsya__leto Jun 17 '24
This isn't appeasement. We've already given Ukraine billions in weapons and they've been fighting the Russians for 2 years
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u/BabblingPanther Jun 17 '24
Appeasement and negotiations are different things.
Peace can only be achieved by negotiations, if you think peace without Russia on the table is possible you are Naive.
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u/LeftySlides Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
I’m against war. Because of this my instinct is to always question the involvement of the country spending almost $1T annually on its “defence” budget, with nearly 800 foreign military bases around the world. My understanding was that Ukraine , due to its geopolitical situation, has found the best balance and eras of peace by remaining relatively neutral and that—because of corruption—has had leaders who constantly become disappointments.
Russia and the U.S. are superpowers. I’m certain that if Canada began accepting weapons from an American adversary, after that adversary funded anti-American protests/revolutions and began flirting with the idea of joining that country’s military alliance, America would cite “legitimate security concerns.”
Meanwhile we’re to be appalled by Russia taking exception to a similar scenario in Ukraine. We also read in our media about “Putin’s demands” whenever he’s been public about attempts at diplomacy including last week and December 2021.
I’m no fan of Putin. At all. My dilemma is this: When the western hawks with the military-based economy start acting on plans laid out long in advance, why is the “appropriate response” to cling to a double standard and blame Russia for attempting to negotiate and then again when they follow through with forewarned military actions after he’s been flat-out denied opportunities for diplomacy in the first place?
Link to a 2004 article by the pro-western Guardian regarding the US funding the Orange revolution for context: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
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u/re_carn Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
My understanding was that Ukraine , due to its geopolitical situation, has found the best balance and eras of peace by remaining relatively neutral and that—because of corruption—has had leaders who constantly become disappointments.
I’m certain that if Canada began accepting weapons from an American adversary, after that adversary funded anti-American protests/revolutions and began flirting with the idea of joining that country’s military alliance, America would cite “legitimate security concerns.”
Bullshit: Russia has constantly interfered in Ukraine's internal affairs and there was never any chance for the latter to be neutral. In fact, Russia was doing the same thing as the US - trying to put a controllable politician in Ukraine.
Not to mention that rhetoric about the "destroyed USSR" and "Ukraine is historically part of Russia" has always been popular (in Russia).
I’m no fan of Putin. At all.
Uh-huh...
and blame Russia for attempting to negotiate and then again they follow through with forewarned military actions after he’s been flat-out denied opportunities for diplomacy in the first place?
Do you mean Russia first annexed Crimea, then launched militants into Ukraine and funded them while hypocritically speaking of peace talks? If you're so fond of citing examples, give me an example of when "the Western hawks" would agree to cede a piece of sovereign territory on such grounds.
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u/LeftySlides Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
You believe Canada could join BRICS and accept Chinese or Russia artillery and America would respect their sovereignty? The Americans wouldn’t even let them sell Chinese phones or allow competition for bidding from Chinese companies when building their 5G network.
And guess what: I’m not a fan of China either. I just can’t help but call out the hypocrisy of the Americans who are now apparently afraid of the free market, while they cite other countries’ security concerns as “baseless.”
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u/re_carn Jun 17 '24
You believe Canada could join BRICS and accept Chinese or Russia artillery and America would respect their sovereignty?
For something like this to happen, it would have to be America's initial aggression against Canada, like Russia against Ukraine.
And guess what: I’m not a fan of China either. I just can’t help but call out the hypocrisy of the Americans who are now apparently afraid of the free market, while they cite other countries security concerns as “baseless.”
And how does annexing Crimea and inciting war in Donetsk fit into that? Or should we try to forget about these events and consider that nothing happened before 2022?
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u/LeftySlides Jun 17 '24
Plenty happened before 2022. Above I linked the 2004 story about USA getting a good ROI after funding the Orange Revolution. That had implications.
Since then Nuland helped oust Yanukovych who was popular in Donbass. Ukrainians voted to have Russian adopted as an official second language and it didn’t happen. Crimea voted to become part of Russia and America excused the inconvenient vote as illegitimate.
Is it not true that, once again, the US used their destabilization strategy to put a resource-rich nation in play? In an era when there’s zero political will to put American boots into combat it seems they’re getting Ukrainians to fight their adversary for them—after antagonizing him geopolitically and forcing his hand—while using up American artillery in the process which is hugely important to their economy.
I predict that in the end Ukraine will be in serious debt and western investment firms will buy up Ukrainian farmland and rights to valuable resources. The question is “how much”? Perhaps we’d have a better shot at peace if neither Russia, China or the West had a monopoly on it.
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u/re_carn Jun 17 '24
Since then Nuland helped oust Yanukovych who was popular in Donbass.
He was elected in the Donbass, it has little to do with popularity.
Crimea voted to become part of Russia and America excused the inconvenient vote as illegitimate.
Since when can a part of a country vote to join another country? In Russia it is considered a crime.
Is it not true that, once again, the US used their destabilization strategy to put a resource-rich nation in play?
No, the "resource-rich country" rushed into war for one simple reason: because the old fart decided to write himself into the history books as the "Unifier of Russia" before death.
I predict that in the end Ukraine will be in serious debt and western investment firms will buy up Ukrainian farmland and rights to valuable resources.
Tell me, how do you manage to "dislike Putin" and yet repeat all the propaganda he pours out on the masses? Even if Ukraine's land is leased to Western investment firms, what's it to you? How does it affect you, Mr. uninvolved?
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u/LeftySlides Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
I’m against warlords. I’m against picking one set of oligarchs who send the poor to die over another who does the same.
I’m against supporting the wealthy and powerful who dupe us into rah-rah patriotism as they usurp our tax dollars to advance their own empirical agendas that disproportionately lines their own pockets. I don’t want to support liars and thieves or pretend they have MY (or the general public’s) best interests in mind.
If I did I might’ve believed Bush when he said their goal was to liberate the people of Iraq.
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Jun 17 '24
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u/Cacharadon New Zealand Jun 17 '24
People are nostalgic for the USSR and fail to recognize that the USSR is long gone and replaced by another imperialist capitalist regime. And some people, maybe the same, are so against western chauvinism that they consider chauvinism from non western states to be preferable
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Jun 17 '24
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u/Cacharadon New Zealand Jun 17 '24
I said people as in individuals. Most leftist subs understand global politics better than some individuals do, but that's because it's an aggregate voice. Some people let their outrage blind them. Some people just get lost in the sauce.
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u/jackberinger Jun 17 '24
If the peace isn't conceding land to Russia then there is no point. It isn't a peace document it is a war one.
I am not pro Russian but Ukraine isn't going to win unless Nato intervenes which could cause ww3. The only thing symbolically demanding peace and all Ukraines territory back is going to do is prolong the war and cost more people's lives.
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
So many of y’all being pro-Russian while pro-Palestinian is why no one can take folks’ opinions in good faith anymore when it comes to this territory shit.
Edit: the downvotes are proving my point lol
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 17 '24
I don’t think people are pro Russian. They’re just not buying NATO propaganda…. There’s a difference
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 17 '24
Putin: We have the right to take this land because Russia existed first.
Zionists: We have the right to take this land because Judea existed first.
Historians: you’re both wrong.
Tankies: The historians are NATO shills. Free Palestine tho.
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 17 '24
Well, I mean, NATO is supporting Israel…. So oh well?
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Can’t cry now
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 18 '24
NATO also backs the UN. What organization is being called antisemetic because it called Israel out for war crimes? Oh, wait…guess that part is inconvenient.
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u/GustavezRaulez Jun 18 '24
If NATO really cared about Ukraine, they'd be sending more than token and symbolic efforts. Russians are fighting with shovels and use microwave chips for their weapons and Putin lives hidden away in a bunker says the propaganda, so what's stopping NATO from walking up to Moscow with their army? Or is the enemy too weak and too strong again?
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 18 '24
Um….
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u/GustavezRaulez Jun 18 '24
I mean I know, but western propaganda keeps yapping about how russians are barely human weaklings who lack weapons and whose leader is a pariah hidden away in some bunker. Now the baltic states who gobble that propaganda like crazy want to push NATO into the war and the NATO leadership are tripping over themselves in convoluted ways to explain why the world's strongest army doesn't want to go agains the second strongest army in Ukraine, you know what I mean?
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 18 '24
NATO backs the UN but blocks most meaningful action against Israel. They condemn and have even threatened the UN when they try to intercede against Israel too forcefully
Try again
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u/CyonHal Jun 18 '24
This is rich. A straw man argument plus labeling as tankies. You are really just a zionist trying to ruffle feathers huh? What's your stance on Palestine really?
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 19 '24
My comment history is enough to show that only one of us is talking in bad faith. You sound like a fed. Btw, stop using terms you don’t understand. If I was stating a “straw man”, then there wouldn’t be a bunch of people doing that exact thing I described ON REDDIT alone. You can piss off now.
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u/Cheestake Jun 18 '24
Wow, you totally won the argument with that person you just made up
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u/cancrushercrusher Jun 19 '24
You’re just as bad as the Zionists bc you don’t actually care about liberation of people being invaded. You make excuses and gaslight. Typical.
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u/Cheestake Jun 19 '24
No need to go on, your imaginary opponent is already crying and shitting themselves
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u/CCPareNazies Jun 17 '24
The ideas that NATO, a group of countries where the political leadership in every poll is holding desperately on whilst being decimated by the populist right (except in the UK) are capable of coordinating a propoganda effort for the organisation NATO, is incredibly silly. My friend that is some conspiracy thinking and you need to go visit some government institutions, you will see they barely get the minimum done, ain’t nobody effective enough for propaganda.
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 17 '24
lol you’re missing the forest for the trees
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u/CCPareNazies Jun 17 '24
Expand
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u/Bikini_Investigator Jun 17 '24
You’re confusing turbulence in internal politics for some sort of major shift in the main foreign policy of these countries.
It’s like here. We switch president but it just changes the face of the company. It doesn’t change the composition, mission or overall nature and character of the CIA, NSA, DOD or other embedded structures and institutions
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u/CCPareNazies Jun 17 '24
I have worked with these institution and although institutional culture does influence them on the operational level, the strategic and tactical level is decided by the elected officials and their immediate bureaucracy. This also wildly differs for each government’s structure including amongst democracies.
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u/DivideEtImpala Jun 18 '24
If the pro-Russia/pro-Palestine position on territory is inconsistent, what does that say about the pro-Ukraine/pro-Israel position?
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u/konchitsya__leto Jun 17 '24
"If the Rules-Based International Order you followed brought you to this, of what use was the Rules-Based International Order?"
- Vladimir "Anton Chigurh" Putin
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u/jamp0g Jun 17 '24
as for china, please google west philippine sea. please see how the un handling it and what china has been doing.
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u/Greedy_Camp_5561 Jun 18 '24
The upvoted comments here are very telling for this sub: it's not about supporting justice, helping the weak against the strong, OR preventing "genocide". Because in all those cases, you would have to be against the Russian war of extermination. It's just about hating Israel and, in most cases, Jews in general.
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u/justme7008 Jun 23 '24
I'm well and truly over this corrupt Muppet of the European Union and USA. He is as corrupt as they are. They did not keep their word to Russia that they would not advance east, and they got what they knew would happen. Mr Zeeelenesky needs to go back to being a 'professional comedian'. Right now, he is only a lack lustre comedian looking for hand outs from every country.
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