r/InternationalNews • u/ferrelle-8604 • May 21 '24
International ICC Prosecutor Karim Khan reveals on CNN that an elected leader told him the ICC was "built for Africa and for thugs like Putin".
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u/First-Ad684 May 21 '24
The strong bullying the weak, what a surprise. So much for justice
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u/ferrelle-8604 May 21 '24
This has been noted in the press in the past but it's refreshing to hear ICC lawyer admit it publicly.
2016 Only Africans have been tried at the court for the worst crimes on Earth
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u/First-Ad684 May 21 '24
God forbids white men be tried for their war crimes
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u/JohnDark1800 May 21 '24
When you’re white you have a good reason to do something and you’re probably even justified to do some horrible shit because you’re working in good faith.
When you’re not white you’re just a savage that breaks shit and needs to be controlled.
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u/SendStoreMeloner May 21 '24
God forbids white men be tried for their war crimes
You mean like Slobodan Milošević in 2006? You mean the Nürnberg trials? Which the system is built upon? Or the recent warrant for Putin?
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u/control-alt-deleted May 21 '24
Nuremberg Trials - Not the ICC Slobodan Milosevic - Not the ICC Putin - The ICC (last year, the same year charges against Hamas and Israel got filed)
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May 22 '24
Yugoslavia was handled by the ICTY which was ad hoc by the SC…. And he died before he could be convicted. The ICC is independent of the SC and GA which is the big difference and why it’s specifically criticised as bypassing general consensus and being influenced by the US & allies. Nuremberg was before the ICC. Putin is the big break in the pattern of Africans but still pushed by the US.
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u/kuncol02 May 21 '24
God forbids white men be tried for their war crimes
Facts say that white men are also tried for war crimes:
Unless they are American, then they aren't.
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May 22 '24
ICTY isn’t the same as ICC. It was an ad hoc set up for Yugoslavia by the UNSC. The difference is the ICC is independent of the UNGA/SC so doesn’t need a mandate or consensus.
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u/the_lonely_creeper May 21 '24
When would European leaders commit war crimes to be charged?
The court was created in 2005, and the only European Wars since are the ones in Ukraine. Which have seen the ICC get involved.
You could maybe make the argument about places like Mali or Afghanistan, but they've generally been harder to prove. Not like Ukraine or Palestine.
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u/HikmetLeGuin May 21 '24
The war in Iraq is an obvious example. Support for death squads in Libya. Support for brutal atrocities in the DRC and various other places.
If we're talking about the US and not just Europe, then they have committed murderous drone strikes in countries such as Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Yemen. The US and other Western leaders also provided direct support to Saudi atrocities in Yemen and training for forces committing crimes around the globe.
Just some examples; I'm sure there are more.
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May 22 '24
Libya. Iraq. Afghanistan. Syria. Yemen. DRC. All backed or done directly by the US & Euro allies off the top of my head.
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u/kuncol02 May 21 '24
2016 Only Africans have been tried at the court for the worst crimes on Earth
It was created in 2005 and last batch of European war criminals (war criminals from Yugoslav wars) were tried by International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia which was created 10 years earlier. If IIC would exists in 90s then they would be tried by it.
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u/HikmetLeGuin May 21 '24
US and European leaders have committed crimes in Iraq and many other wars around the world, either through direct military action or by providing funding and training for war criminals.
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May 22 '24
Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan…. All had war crimes done or facilitated by European nations with the US. These comments really prove the criticism because it works to erase these crimes from the record while holding those who aren’t allies to the rule of law.
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May 21 '24
"we don't know why people in the Middle East hate us, it must be because of our freedom"
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May 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hydroxypcp Estonia May 21 '24
this just means there has not been enough freedom spread. Better get those drones ready, we need to bomb some more Arabs 🫡
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u/salkhan May 21 '24
Clearly, some elites (not all I suspect) believe the West are rule makers, NOT rule takers. As they created the 'International rule' based order, they lectured others to benefit from the system that puts the West at the top of the pyramid. Now when the rules start to applied to them, they have temper tantrum.
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u/Ok-Replacement9595 May 25 '24
This is stated US policy, actually. It is why we are not signatories to neither the ICC or the Hauge.
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u/salkhan May 25 '24
Yes, I assume its under the belief that the US would never become a 'fascist' state.
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u/Icy-Lab-2016 May 21 '24
Name the person.
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u/wearyclouds May 21 '24 edited May 22 '24
We have so many vile, depraved heads of state that it's hard to guess. That said, 20 bucks on Rishi Sunak.
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u/April_Fabb May 21 '24
The list of world leaders with integrity and an intact moral compass is depresingly short.
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u/Pep_Baldiola May 21 '24
So ICC was just and responsible when they wanted to punish Nazis but now it's a court for thugs? LOL, okay western politics. It's good that more and more Eastern nations are trying to get out of the stronghold of these morons and assert themselves on the international stage.
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u/Mak11556 May 21 '24
Crazy how Biden and these idiots are trying to sway icc, by doing so they delegitimize icc’s ability to go after others in the future. The countries that would like the icc to only prosecute Russia and third world countries want to use this to suppress their own enemies while protecting themselves and their cronies.
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u/Omnom_Omnath May 21 '24
Biden is against it because he knows he deserves to be on trial himself, like every other US president before him.
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u/No_Cloud4804 May 21 '24
I think I am beginning to like that Prosecutor. May he be guided towards the truth.
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u/lurkerbed May 21 '24
I am not a fan, he purposefully avoided naming genocide among the charges for Israel, and he also didn’t charge some of the other senior leadership for the crimes, such as Isaac Herzog, or Ben Gvir, or even Gantz!
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u/_Snebb_ May 21 '24
I think it's a bit naive on your part to be bashing them for not seeking to take them all down on the initial inquest, tbh. Once a precedence is set, it becomes a watershed moment and easier to to drag others through the system too (all the way down to IOF 'I was just following orders' 'soldiers').
The lack of genocide charges is troubling, however. It's not unprecedented for additional charges to be levied before and during the trial based on evidence and testimonies presented. In my naivety I hope this was just to get the charges into court with least resistance and to expand from there.
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u/bayern80 May 21 '24
And Amal Clooney is involved in this situation:
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u/_Snebb_ May 21 '24
'Situation'. Your point being?
She is not the sole person providing advice, and of course the leaders of Hamas are being charged. What did you expect?
I hate to break it to you, but the right to fight occupation isn't a carte blanche to act with impunity, and often doesn't extend as far as taking civilian hostages (as an example), no matter where our bias lies.
Warrants also don't mean conviction. For now, this at least quashes some bullshit from IL on the motives of the ICC. They could very well be found not guilty due to said right to resist laws.
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u/bayern80 May 21 '24
Let's be clear, this is the first step, since for how long Israel harassing Palestinian? And till now we didn't have this kind of action
And yes I can agree 👍 with you
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u/buttersyndicate May 21 '24
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/04/13/nato-states-icc-prosecutor-putin/
This was posted by u/Fed-Poster-1337 here. Mr Kahn seems to be sucked in the inertia despite his efforts to make sure no western country ever gets indicted in the ICC.
We'll see about those precedents, the BRICS pressure is surely turning the ICC into something that wasn't intended to be. Yet it's not like it's the first international organization that positions itself against western powers, wouldn't be surprised if it simply became a huge limbo of wishlists like the UN.
If definitive and blatant resolutions are achieved, for the accused the question still remains: "you and whose army?".
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May 22 '24
I agree, at the same time their argument is that they have been very careful to make a case that is as air tight as possible and thus were very selective. I hope that the strategy is to use these convictions to open the door for more in something like a tribunal. I didn’t have any love for Khan before but this has earned a lot of respect from me because he is very much put a huge assassination target on himself.
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u/j4ckbauer May 21 '24
Israel and its leadership are within, or very close, to those criteria anyway...
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May 21 '24 edited May 21 '24
The only not African that has been convicted at the ICC since it started was Putin btw.
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u/alamacra May 21 '24
Cause Russia's Third World, according to the West. The whole falling out is because back in the 2000s Russia refused to be the West's colony.
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u/Routine_Suggestion52 May 21 '24
I mean… Russians are worse off than any western country by every measure. With a war so unpopular their soldiers flee to different countries.
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u/alamacra May 21 '24
Not by every measure. For instance, when it comes to interaction with the government and economy digitisation, cashless purchases and online marketplaces, Germany comparatively is extremely far behind. Or France and UK for that matter. In any case, even if it was true, would it really be a good reason to surrender and accept eternal servitude as a fundamentally inferior colonised nation?
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u/Routine_Suggestion52 May 21 '24
I’m not sure Russia would be colonized… they would just be an ally like any other western country. The US hasn’t colonized Britain. Or Switzerland, or Norway. They haven’t even done so to Arab allies like Saudi Arabia.
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u/alamacra May 21 '24
Specifically, when Western companies entered the Russian market, they deliberately worked at a loss to make sure the local Russian companies die off, do as to overtake the local market. Not only that, they also paid bribes to make sure their products were chosen instead of local ones, Siemens is especially famous for this, as they secured purchases of their trains and gas turbines in this fashion.
This would have still left Russia with natural resources, except no, in 1994, after the West sponsored shelling of Russia's Parliament the new government voted to transfer hundreds of natural resource deposits to Western companies and exempt them from taxes completely. That was more or less complete domination of the West over the Russian economy in neocolonialism, to compare, many African states have to suffer similar conditions even now.
There was never really a chance of Russia becoming an equal ally to anyone in the West, when every deal offered was so heavily unbalanced, or with the West seing even violent meddling in Russian internal affairs as quite acceptable.
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u/Routine_Suggestion52 May 21 '24
Well of course not. As long as Russia is communist… If they were more of a liberal society like Europe and the US then maybe. Not gonna say the west is innocent. They aren’t. But I’ll be damned I’m gonna lick Putin’s boots. You know many people over there would kill to go to a western country. That’s how bad Russia is. I know I’ve angered the KGB bots downvoting me.
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May 22 '24
I’m not sure what that has to do with anything?
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u/Routine_Suggestion52 May 22 '24
Cause the guy up there replying to you is simping for Putin. KGB propaganda sure has done a good job of infecting the world. Russia and China are objectively terrible. As in, their governments are. Look at what China is doing to the Muslims and their goals with Taiwan and other terrotories. Russia announced today “drills for tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine”. Both oppress their citizens on a scale not seen elsewhere on earth. Especially China with Winnie the Pooh over there. Minus 50 social credits for me 🤷♂️
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u/kuncol02 May 21 '24
That's simply a lie. Very stupid lie and easy to disprove lie.
Vladimir Putin, Maria Lvova-Belova, Viktor Sokolov, Sergey Kobylash, Mikhail Mindzaev, Gamlet Guchmazov, David Sanakoev. Last three for warcrimes during Georgian-Osetian war.
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May 21 '24
You’re right, I meant to say convicted instead of charged. Unless I’m mistaken the Georgian investigation hasn’t had a conviction yet and is kind of in limbo no?
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u/Anary8686 May 21 '24
What about Milosevic?
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May 21 '24
He died during the trial
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u/Anary8686 May 21 '24
Still counts imo.
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May 22 '24
It was also not the ICC……. It was a special ad hoc tribunal made by UNSC mandate for Yugoslavia. ICC is independent of the UNSC& GA
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u/kuncol02 May 21 '24
White war criminals were busy being tried by ICTY. Rwandan war criminals also weren't tried by ICC but ICTR. Does that means that ICC is protecting Hutu?
Amount of people indicted by ICC is little over third of number of people indicted by ICTY alone and 13% of them are white. ICC was able to convict whole whopping 10 people in its first 20 years of existence. For comparison ICTY and ICTR together convicted over 170 people.
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May 22 '24
ICTY and ICTR were ad hoc made by the SC exclusively tor Yugoslavia and Rwanda. ICC is completely independent of the SC. Which is why they have the ability to charge and convict people from SC permanent members like Putin…. Or any state without the SC or GA. That’s the key part of why they are criticised specifically and separately from the ad hoc tribunals. People say that it is overly influenced by the US and European allies to act out their foreign policy. Critics will also say that Khan was put into power by the US because his predecessor was looking to take action against them. Critics generally find it a little bit odd that the US has so much control over the ICC while they refuse to be part of the Rome Statute and have the invasion of The Hague act still on the books. This is why it’s unprecedented that they have acted against the US’s interests here. Idk I think that’s pretty legit
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u/Fed-Poster-1337 May 21 '24
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u/buttersyndicate May 21 '24
Wait, so the guy in the video above is basically one of the main actors making sure the ICC never actually challenges western countries?
That's some uncomfortable position he's in now, isn't it?
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May 22 '24
Yes. It’s why this is so crazy and why america has been so open with its threats. It’s like Trump with the people he appointed and his own legal issues lol.
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u/Simply_Shartastic May 21 '24
Excellent work Sir. It’s a shame he had to go to CNN to make this known- but I’m glad he did it in this extremely public manner via CNN.
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u/WrkrsRvltn May 21 '24
He was not wrong. Netanyahu is a thug like Putin.
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u/penguished May 21 '24 edited May 21 '24
The US actually set the stage for Putin by deciding Murica needed to be doing "preemptive invasion" in Iraq. They set the stage for Israel to do genocide by getting away with all that torture and bombing after 9/11. So the great tragedy is, the US needed to be called out decades ago before we slid down into this hell and other countries started Murica'ing... but at least there's a little bit of world response today.
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May 22 '24
Yes. Americans don’t know the recent history of their own country and what it has been doing in other countries. Everything Israel is doing is just America stuff on steroids. Even the hostages line is the same as the US’s MIA/POW justification to continue the war in Vietnam for years.
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u/Monsur_Ausuhnom May 21 '24
Until you vote out leaders in each state that support genocide and work in their interest of lobbyists. (Maybe they get involved in secret exclusive cults as well), nothing is really going to change.
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u/kozmos81 May 21 '24
Thanks for Gazans for the priceless sacrifices which exposed the utter hypocrisy of many the so called 1st world leaders, which are no different than ISIS thugs except wearing some fancy suits and got elected
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u/HikmetLeGuin May 21 '24
This has been noted so many times, but the fact that Western leaders are actually saying it shows yet again how brazenly corrupt and racist they are.
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u/Jim_Cruz May 21 '24
Karim Kahn didn't kill himself!
... Had to get this out there before he un-alives himself suddenly and suspiciously.
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