r/Games • u/LyadhkhorStrategist • 2d ago
Underrail 2: Infusion - Alpha Demo (early alpha build)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HmPsCNMuUg8&si=usfrA8AEMKEpFj9V148
u/skpom 2d ago
As much i loved underrail, the dev turned out to be a terrible human being. Going to skip this one no matter how good it ends up being
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u/texoha 2d ago
Yeah, thought I remembered that. Not sure if you’ll get hate for this but you’re not wrong, the dev is a piece of shit.
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u/skpom 2d ago
Underrail is a genuinely good game, and Infusion might turn out to be very good too. Lots of talented people out there who happen to be shitty. I have no issue with anyone being excited to play it; I just personally won't support the dev
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u/Temporala 1d ago edited 1d ago
Orson Scott Card wrote some truly great books, but also is an absolute lunatic and overall toxic person.
J.K Rowling decided to push her own trauma of being assaulted by a man on innocent, defenseless people and hurt them by supporting abhorrent positions after becoming a popular author.
H.P Lovecraft was a weirdo and a racist.
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a popular fantasy writer with pro-feminist positions and was a favorite of pagan communities at the time. After her death, it was revealed she was also a child molester (assaulting even her own daughter together with his husband).
Erza Pound, author of a famous modernist poem "The Cantos", was also a crazy fascist supporter of Mussolini's brand of politics and extreme anti-semite. I guess Erza would be closest example of what Styg's fallen into.
Sometimes creative people sink deep in their minds and become deluded or extremist. They're wired that way. They have enormous amounts of passion and imagination, and something will capture it eventually. That something is sometimes horrific.
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u/ztfreeman 1d ago edited 1d ago
I might get a lot of flack for this, but it's less creative people and more that these examples were/are all extremely mentally ill and instead of getting help (or having access to it at the time), it manifested in bigotry.
Orson Scott Card struggles with his closeted homosexuality having grown up in an extremely conservative Mormon environment. That kind of repression and trauma can destroy someone's sense of self, which is lies at the heart of a lot of his books (both the closeted homosexuality and the loss of a sense of self in the wake of needs larger than one's self).
J.K. Rowling suffers from a common issue with people who have suffered from sexual violence (I am also a victim of sexual trauma and advocate in this space, so I might come off a bit more sympathetic than most). It is extremely common to develop an extreme fear or hatred for people who match the characteristics of the person who assaulted you, like hating all men if the attacker was a man or visa-versa. When this happens, the idea of "hidden men" being in places considered vulnerable can cause the victim's anxiety to go through the roof, which is why she takes the anti-trans stances she does and this plays out in some of her post Harry Potter works rather directly. The UK is abysmal when it comes to trans-rights and mental health in general despite more access to it than the US through the NHS, so it doesn't surprise me that she never received proper care in a critical time after her assault that would have done a lot to prevent this outcome.
H.P. Lovecraft likely suffered from an extreme form of social OCD and there are entire PhD theses papers dissecting his work and how everything about his racism, world views, and the mythos he created circle back around to that.
Erza Pound is the most complex one, and was possibly a clinical narcissist or on the antisocial personality disorder spectrum and may have experienced a kind of PTSD from WW1 even though I don't think he was a soldier who saw the front. Developing PTSD from the civilian side of a major conflict is more common than most realize, even those shielded from the brunt of its direct effects can be deeply affected by its social ramifications and the massive loss of life around you and to the national identity you may have. There are a lot of good works out there about how all of Europe may have suffered a kind of collective PTSD after WW1, and that the rise of fascism collectively mirrors what some individuals struggle with without help. Fascism in the 1920's and 1930's collected a lot of people who felt broken and helpless and gave them a sense of strength and purpose, not only disaffected veterans.
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a horrible pedophile and unfortunately, which is often the case, no one came forward at the time so no one could intervene. Awareness and systems were not as good as they are today (which are still not great but that's another discussion), so it doesn't surprise me that no one came forward at the time. Her daughter wrote a detailed book about what it was like called The Last Closet: The Dark Side of Avalon, which I recommend for people who are interested in working in the SA advocacy space.
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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES 3h ago
I think you're right about mental illness manifesting as bigotry
I'd even go a step further and say hate itself is a sickness
It may be unpopular on reddit, but i think we as a society should try to cure people of their hate whenever possible
Even though their hatred disgusts us, even harms us, it's the only way to defeat the cycle of hate
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u/Distinct-Ganache4951 20h ago
Notch is another one that comes to mind. With him there is no Minecraft, but look how far he's fallen.
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u/qwerty145454 1d ago
If you hate the dev but love the game you could just acquire it without purchasing it. Like waiting for it to be free on Epic, or something.
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 1d ago
I mean he’s clearly bigoted against gay people at the very least,
What, because he said something is gay? It's going to take more than that to convince me. I really don't care about mean words on social media. They are usually not reflective of who somebody actually is, just as them having a positive social media presence doesn't automatically make them a good person. When Styg starts putting anti-gay themes into his work, I'll start believing that he's a bigot, and he hasn't done anything of the sort.
Basing drastic accusations like this off of paper thin evidence and violating Reddit's draconian speech policing orthodoxy is only hurting your case, and it's the reason most people don't use Reddit or take it seriously as a community.
but I assume you’ll just play that off as “being christian”, and yes by default bigots are pieces of shit.
If making sweeping assumptions about an entire group based on your own prejudices makes you a bigot, isn't it pretty bigoted to assume all Christians hate gay people?
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u/Vitalic123 1d ago
Post history checks out.
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 1d ago
"Checkmate, I checked your post history!"
There's nothing wrong with admitting you don't have an argument.
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u/LyadhkhorStrategist 2d ago
Fucking hell this guy is a real piece of work huh. That's really disappointing, but this type of fandom isn't unheard of in CRPG spaces (looking at you No Mutants Allowed). Not surprising we will get a few developers like him too.
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u/potpan0 2d ago
but this type of fandom isn't unheard of in CRPG spaces (looking at you No Mutants Allowed)
I suppose it's not surprising that there's an overlap between people who don't like video games being different from when they were kids and people who support more 'traditionalist' styles of politics more generally. It's all just a reaction to seeing anything they're not familiar with.
Underrail always looked like an interesting game to me, but I always disliked how you could play for 40 hours then realise you'd irreversibly specced into a character design that would not work in the late game. I enjoy hard games but that type of game design is just wasting your time, and there is a reason why most modern (c)RPGs allow you to respec.
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u/MadeByTango 2d ago
an overlap between people who don't like video games being different from when they were kids and people who support more 'traditionalist' styles of politics more generally. It's all just a reaction to seeing anything they're not familiar with.
Not ok to conflate these things. Games are popular and remembered for their gameplay. It’s completely valid to be frustrated when a publisher or developer uses the name of a game to get attention for sales but the gameplay is different. Don’t advertise a hamburger and then tell me a chicken sandwich is the same thing just because it has a sesame seed bun.
That’s completely different from being a racist shithead without empathy for people that look or think different than you.
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u/potpan0 1d ago
Games are popular and remembered for their gameplay. It’s completely valid to be frustrated when a publisher or developer uses the name of a game to get attention for sales but the gameplay is different. Don’t advertise a hamburger and then tell me a chicken sandwich is the same thing just because it has a sesame seed bun.
Hey man, I feel like your comment is replying to something which I didn't say. Nowhere did I say it's wrong to be 'frustrated when a publisher or developer uses the name of a game to get attention for sales but the gameplay is different.'
What I said is that it's not surprising that there is an overlap (i.e., not a 100% correlation) between people who don't like change in video games and people who don't like broader change in politics or society more generally. And I'm even more comfortable suggesting that about someone who's openly whining about the presence of black people or gay people in video games.
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u/hyrule5 2d ago
It's unfortunate that he has personal beliefs like that, but there is no content in Underrail which pushes or reflects those beliefs. I don't buy the claims of Nazism in that post either-- there are black and other minority characters in Underrail and they aren't portrayed as being different or worse.
To me it just looks like he's a fundamentalist Christian type. Which is too bad (and also ironic as the post mentions, because the creator of the game's primary inspiration Fallout is gay), and I understand if someone wouldn't want to support him because of that. But the game itself doesn't have any of that stuff in it, and I would have had no idea if I hadn't been reading comments on a subreddit.
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u/Killergryphyn 1d ago
What an utter bastard... it feels like playing a CRPG these days runs the risk of associating with these kinds of people, too much overlap.
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u/Alternative-Job9440 1d ago
Thanks for sharing that, i was already put off by getting to know the dev actively searched out mods and cheat engine tables to fuck them up and change the code so they stop working, because he wants everyone to play the game EXACTLY like he wants to...
That alone is already a huge dick move that makes me not want to support, but real nacism, racism and homophobia is the last nail in the coffin.
I hope that game fails miserably.
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u/Dankamonius 1d ago
You don't have to subscribe to someone's political beliefs to enjoy the media they create. Also the main developer is from Serbia which isn't exactly a bastion of liberal progressivism. The references to Nazi content in the dlc from that post (hyperborea etc) are a massive stretch.
The discord is an absolute dumpster fire though.
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u/Not-Reformed 2d ago
Eh, if game's good I couldn't really care less. Social media words don't really bother me.
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u/Vitalic123 1d ago
Yeah I mean, there's such a dearth of good games not made by scum these days, you barely have a choice!
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u/Not-Reformed 1d ago
You're unironically correct for CRPGs. Them saying mean things online doesn't affect my decision making regardless
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u/PerformanceToFailure 1d ago
This is one of the better ones and spez is a piece of work but you still seem to be here.
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u/Cyberpunk890 1d ago
Mindless fucking consumerism wins the day again.
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u/Not-Reformed 1d ago
The horror when people spend their money and not blacklist something because mean words online !!!
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u/Vagrant_Savant 1d ago
Separate artist from art. It's possible to like something without liking the person who created it.
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u/PerformanceToFailure 1d ago
Not anymore, only cancel culture exists for people you don't like. Which is fine but then these same people ignore other pieces of shit that are convenient.
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u/Lemonpartyhardy 2d ago
Whether or not you want to call him a nazi is just arguing semantics, regardless of what you want to personally consider him his comments and views are objectively shitty, and the community he fosters is objectively shitty
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u/CatBotSays 2d ago edited 2d ago
Regardless of there being evidence that he's an outright Nazi or not, there's plenty there to make it clear he's a terrible person with bigoted views. Seems like what he's like is pretty well known, too, based on comments in that thread.
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u/Mr_Ivysaur 1d ago
At first I got confused with Unrailed 2, and I spent a whole minute imagining how such a cute and inoffensive game could have a dev that was such a terrible human being.
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 2d ago edited 2d ago
terrible human being
So in typical Reddit fashion, I'm going to say that this means he's slightly right of center and doesn't agree with Reddit's most beloved talking points. Let's see what we've actually got!
...Yep, exactly as I thought. The linked "evidence" that proves he's a "terrible human being" is just evidence that he's.. possibly a Christian, doesn't like overt gay messaging, didn't like Baldur's Gate 3, has read the Bible, and applies the same race-swapping standards to white characters as most people apply to characters of any other ethnicity. Here is all of the "evidence".
He literally has only two other things - firstly, the game has a Discord community that doesn't police speech heavily. Oh no, horror of horrors! Underrail unabashedly appeals to 'oldschool' gamers - the sort of people who do not appreciate modern political messaging or censorship. The Discord, unsurprisingly, reflects that. If that bothers you, just stay out of the Discord. I don't know how many other communities have been exposed for their Discords being filthy nests of grooming and gooning at this point, but I don't see anyone canceling everybody tangentially involved with whatever fandom they focused on.
This post also cites NFT's settlement in Expedition being named Lemuria as "unironic Nazi content." This is one of the dumbest things I have read in weeks. Lemuria is an archaic term for a hypothetical lost continent; it's no more 'nazi propaganda' than Atlantis is. NFT was very progressive in both its philosophy and its work, and anybody who 'loved the lore' as this guy claims to would have known that. BioCorp are much closer to Nazis in their ethical outlook, and they are not portrayed flatteringly.
Do not listen to this guy. He's either incredibly fragile or he's being willfully disingenuous. Play Underrail, it's great, it has zero political propaganda in it.
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u/Fuzzy-Passenger-1232 1d ago
possibly a Christian, doesn't like overt gay messaging, didn't like Baldur's Gate 3, has read the Bible, and applies the same race-swapping standards to white characters as most people apply to characters of any other ethnicity
This is a very mild way of describing homophobia, bigotry and hateful rhetoric. I wonder why you're so eager to minimize what Styg and the discord server are actually like.
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u/skpom 2d ago
Do not listen to this guy. He's either incredibly fragile or he's being willfully disingenuous.
the lady doth protest too much methinks
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 2d ago
I'm not the one trying to pass off a naming convention as evidence of a secret Nazi conspiracy. Ball's in your court.
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u/PopeFrancis 1d ago
Lemuria is an archaic term for a hypothetical lost continent; it's no more 'nazi propaganda' than Atlantis is.
And y'all best quit criticizing his tattoo! It's an ancient Hindu symbol!!!
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 1d ago
Lemuria (/lɪˈmjʊəriə/), or Limuria, was a continent proposed in 1864 by zoologist Philip Sclater, theorized to have sunk beneath the Indian Ocean, later appropriated by occultists in supposed accounts of human origins. The theory was discredited with the discovery of plate tectonics and continental drift in the 20th century.[1]
The hypothesis was proposed as an explanation for the presence of lemur fossils on Madagascar and the Indian subcontinent but not in continental Africa or the Middle East. Biologist Ernst Haeckel's suggestion in 1870 that Lemuria could be the ancestral home of humans caused the hypothesis to move beyond the scope of geology and zoogeography, ensuring its popularity outside of the framework of the scientific community.
If this is the hill you want to die on, go for it. You're not doing this site's reputation many favors, though.
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u/PopeFrancis 16h ago
The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning 'conducive to well-being'.[1][12] In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) is called sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali.[1] In Jain symbolism, it represents Suparshvanatha – the seventh of 24 Tirthankaras (spiritual teachers and saviours), while in Buddhist symbolism it represents the auspicious footprints of the Buddha.[1][13][14] In the different Indo-European traditions, the swastika symbolises fire, lightning bolts, and the sun.[15] The symbol is found in the archaeological remains of the Indus Valley civilisation[16] and Samarra, as well as in early Byzantine and Christian artwork.
If this is the hill you want to die on, go for it. You're not doing this site's reputation many favors, though.
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u/LyadhkhorStrategist 2d ago
The new combat system looks interesting but I am dreading how the dev would use higher tier enemies to make the time mechanic torture. (Half the reason I played Underrail is the dev fucking with the player but still)
The game overall looks better and much smoother both in terms of visuals and animation. Was hoping to see some dialogue though.
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u/westonsammy 2d ago
Underrail is one of my favorite modern CRPG’s, up there with BG3 and the Owlcat games
It has some of the best worldbuilding and atmosphere of any CRPG. It’s setting is completely unique despite it’s obvious influences, and every single inch of it is interesting. The gameplay mechanics can get a bit masochistic and the game loves to dick over the player, but overall I thought the experience was incredible.
So hyped for Infusion
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u/mountlover 2d ago
Underrail is one of my favorite modern CRPG’s, up there with [...] the Owlcat games
This makes so much sense to me, as I bounced off of Underrail for the exact same reason I loathe the Owlcat games so much. Owlcat's RPG's are 1000 hour experiences with about 100 hours of content. Underrail suffers from a similar pacing issue, but is still a very well designed game overall, with open-ended questing reminiscent of Fallout 1 and 2. When I got to the final area and there was a sequence of about 12 different things you have to backtrack around the same areas several times to do to actually beat the final boss sequence, I was like "I'm good."
Don't even get me started on the mutagen puzzle. After having busted out the pen and paper for the cryptography puzzle to get a certain weapon from the DLC area and being massively underwhelmed by how shit the weapon in question was compared to the effort to get it, I did not have the patience to go through that again.
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u/DepecheModeFan_ 2d ago
You were lucky that you could complete the game, even after all the tediousness of deep caverns, my build still wouldn't let me beat Tchort so I had to use cheat engine to finish the game.
I didn't have any build issues until then, but it's kind of problematic when a game only reveals unfixable build problems after like 50-100 hours.
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u/tameriaen 23h ago
Yeah -- I think I was on my 4th build before I had the guts to enter into the deep caverns (after I did expeditions). I've heard of some people (e.g. crit builds) hitting absolute brick walls in fungal forest. I think the boss took me 3-4 hours to beat: I couldn't initially figure out the quasi stealth approach, and though I solved the mutagen puzzle, I don't know that I implemented it correctly. Like you, I may have used CE to fudge some numbers.
Kinda like the (actual) Darkest Dungeon, the Deep Caverns made a small psychic scar in me where I still have uncomfortable feelings bout the space. I kind of respect that -- as not that many games have done that to me -- but I can't say that I like it.
That said, I will probably complete another run through that dank misery.
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u/Zenspy-Real 2d ago
Anyone knows if the game will show the northern underrail?
I know he said it won't be a "sequel" to the first one but at least the main villain thing and mysteries could have some nods.
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u/grouchoharks 2d ago
I mean, they said that, but now they've changed the name from just Underail: Infusion to Underrail 2: Infusion both in the title of the video and on their site. Sort of feels like a sequel to me (that doesn't mean that we are continuing with the player character from the first game, of course).
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u/DepecheModeFan_ 2d ago
I don't think they've confirmed it but that seemed like the obvious place to set the sequel.
I can't fully remember the story but I'd imagine you'd be searching for Tanner and Six in North Underrail after how the first game ended because it definitely set up a continuation
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u/Zenspy-Real 2d ago
Yeah that's what i thought it would be but when it was first announced Styx said it wouldn't follow up on that, but I'm hopeful.
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u/bluesky_anon 1d ago
Underrail was one of my favorite CRPGs, amazing atmosphere and gameplay. It was a bit tedious towards the end, but overall I'm left with a very good taste, something akin to Fallout 2 or Wasteland 2
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u/AtrocityBuffer 1d ago
Oh damn! I got the first one, real excited to play it too, this looks fantastic! Honestly been missing some Fallout likes, none of them seem to hit the same itch as the first 2. Wasteland was a bit of a dud for me, same with ATOM RPG.
I really hoped Larian might take a stab at one but I think theyre doing fantasty again, so this might be the only thing for a while!
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u/MatterOfTrust 1d ago
Underrail is the best CRPG since Fallout 2. I purchased the first one back when it was just an alpha on Desura, and put over 300 hours into it over the course of 3 or 4 playthroughs. It's a treat.
Can't wait for Infusion.
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u/DepecheModeFan_ 2d ago
Massive fan of Underrail, pumped 110 hours into it and the DLC and thought it was a fantastic crpg that very much had the feel of Fallout 1 whilst being it's own unique thing.
This looks like it's got a good graphical and mechanical upgrade whilst still maintaining the same identity. Only thing I'm concerned about are the combat changes (I prefer classic turn based).
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u/RussianSkeletonRobot 2d ago
I'm hoping that there's an option to keep classical turn-based combat, sort of like how you could pick between Oddity and Classic XP in Underrail 1.
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u/Mottis86 1d ago edited 1d ago
Underrail is one of those games that has seemingly been sitting on my wishlist since the very beginning. I've seen it a hundred times while scrolling through the list. I've always been intrigued by it but not intrigued enough to buy it.
Should I finally give it a go?
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u/MisterSnippy 18h ago
Underrail is fun, but it does have the issue of having no reason to go back to locations you've 'cleared'. On my second playthrough I found myself skipping combat in locations to give myself something to do later on.
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u/Morlax97 1d ago
Yeah, it's probably the best CRPG I've ever played.
Bear in mind, the barrier of entry is quite high. Bad builds will straight up not work, forcing you to reroll your character, but you don't need to minmax either.
If you don't want to look up builds, just remember this: You can't specialize in multiple offensive skills (weapons, melee, psi, crossbows) at the same time. Just choose one and max it EVERY single time you level up. A dip into throwing is okay as many thrown items are extremely strong with only a moderate investment in the skill.
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u/pernicious-pear 1d ago
It's the hardest cRPG I've ever played, and it can be frustrating because of that, but damn if it isn't a good game. If you like cRPGs and a solid challenge, yes, give it a go. Especially if it pops up on sale.
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u/masterkill165 1d ago
when i saw this post i thought it was about a sequel to the silly party game "unrailed" i completely forgot there was a CRPG called "underrail".
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u/strmiric 2d ago
Underrail is my favorite crpg ever, and this new version looks a hundred times more impressive! However, I can’t shake off my "anxiety" about the time constraints.
I suppose we’ll find out in due time, but honestly, I’m not a fan of time restriction at all.